Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Maegor]

Item squish means nothing, if it was today for instance and we had 170haste instead of 17000 it would just mean the "soft cap" is 170 rating and not 17000... Playstyle-wise and dps - boss health will still stay the same, it's not like they're going to keep the rating scaling the same as it is now. Only change is the "shiny" number you see bounce on your screen and how much health things have...

Right, which is why I feel meh about it, the big numbers are what they are. There isn't any relative difference, like you said, about doing 250k pre-squish and 250 post squish. Doesn't matter what letter is after the number, whether its k, m, b or t. What does matter is that an npc (or toon) has a max healthpool at any one time of around 2.4b. This is why Garrosh has phases where he regens. They can't have every boss from now on have regen mechanics (can you imagine a boss next tier regenning to 100% every 30s?). Whether community wanted it or not, this is why it is happening now. Community wants a lot of things it doesn't get, besides if you haven't noticed, the "community" isn't ever decisive about what it wants because the only people that speak up and voice their thoughts are the people that are, at that time, currently pissed off about something.

[Deleted]

It is much more practical with lower numbers. Try to travel to Turkey where one million in their currency equals like 1-2 bucks in the states. Theorycrafting I am sure of it will also be easier to wrap your head around with lower numbers.

1% skewed DPS if you're doing 1000 dps vs. 1.000.0000 dps. Same percentage way bigger number, it's just plain annoying.

[Maegor]

It is much more practical with lower numbers. Try to travel to Turkey where one million in their currency equals like 1-2 bucks in the states. Theorycrafting I am sure of it will also be easier to wrap your head around with lower numbers.

1% skewed DPS if you're doing 1000 dps vs. 1.000.0000 dps. Same percentage way bigger number, it's just plain annoying.

You are confusing conversion (the currency example) and relativity (1k dps vs 100k dps). Not sure how lower numbers affects theory crafting either, because all of the formulas remain the same, and I would argue that the complexity of the equation comes from the number of factors to include (SoL, mastery, etc) and not the initial number (won dmg, AP, etc). I find that many more people have trouble with fractions and decimals (and even basic algebraic properties) than they do with 1 million vs 1 thousand.

Theory crafting numbers should be more about accuracy and not precision anyway. Without worrying about the last three digits of our current format (saying 315k dps instead 315,467) you remain accurate and work with smaller numbers. For example, if you something, change in rotation say, should be a bump in dps of 4%, then using 315k you say it will net you 315*.04=12-13k, instead of 315,467*.04=12,618.68 dps. The last three numbers don't matter, especially considered damage is always based on a number roll.

Tldr - accuracy>precision so treating the big numbers as abbreviations (small numbers) is fine in theorycrafting

[Regen]

I'll be waiting for beta to make my...judgment /shades

[Lyese]

I'll be waiting for beta to make my...judgment /shades

I hope your judgment is wise. /shadespoppedcollar

[Tanyn]

I've been noticing more burst during AW when we used Exo earlier in the rotation. Anyone else noticing this?

[shynoz]

I've been noticing more burst during AW when we used Exo earlier in the rotation. Anyone else noticing this?

mmhm maybe 2pieceT16 bonus proc'ed while AW was on... i will check it tonight but good eye sir!

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

2 set can proc even if exorcism isn't on CD.

Had a few tweets with the Celestalon guy.
If the ability that procced multi strike or cleave can crit the multi strike can crit, if that sticks then prepare your anus for crit specs to do nasty things to you. Oh well, at least it's still early...

[MarshallX]

Dear Thok, please drop a Tail Tip sometime this tier. I don't care if it's LFR, Flex or Normal. Just drop one. Love, MarshallX.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Darot/advanced

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Righto, some more information about the multi strike and cleave things in WoD from Celestalon.
Cleave will be the same as the cleave trinkets in SoO, chance on hit to deal a % of the damage you did to X number of targets within a radius.
Multi strike will proc a 30% effect of the ability that procced it, meaning if you hit a TV for 10k (+HoL 2k) the multi strike proc would be a 3.3k TV (+whatever HoL)
For fire mages this means you can throw a pyroblast (get lucky and crit) multi strike procs and you shoot another Pyroblast (more luck and get crit) which enables another pyro blast.

TBH if blizzard aren't careful with this multi strike things are gonna be so fucking rng it's not even funny.
Firelands legendary staff had a chance to duplicate the damage of a spell as arcane.
SoO trinket would do some of the damage as "multistrike damage"
WoD multi strike will just copy the spell it procced off and the multi strike copied spell can still proc all of the things that it could as if it wasn't a multi strike proc.
Please tell me it's not just me who see the problems with that?

Some quotes from Celestalon:

No, the damage of Multistrikes and Cleaves are not based on the damage of the hit that triggered them.
(Yes, that's different from how the SoO trinkets worked.)
It's another hit of the same spell, (with a 30% multiplier for Multistrike). New damage roll.

Meaning you don't multistrike the damage, you multistrike the spell/ability cast.

Ghostcrawler just tweeted about superare trifectas. Was that warforged+tert+gem?

Yep.

Oh lord the rng will not ever end...


Fire mages will have a fun expansion by the looks of it, same with moonkins or any class/spec that procs crap from crits...

[CyborgGrandpa]

Finally got my tail tip!
Only took from week 1 of SoO till... now. It's a flex version, but it'll have to tide me over till I get the real one I guess.

Also re: Huntingbear, I remember hearing that the extraneous stats will be rare enough as is... we'll probably never see a perfect piece of gear in a current tier.
This kinda shit drives me insane though. I'll be losing sleep due to knowing some other dps in my raid managed to bonus roll a slightly more efficient version of the gear I have. :<

[NightKnight87]

TBH if blizzard aren't careful with this multi strike things are gonna be so fucking rng it's not even funny.
Firelands legendary staff had a chance to duplicate the damage of a spell as arcane.
SoO trinket would do some of the damage as "multistrike damage"
WoD multi strike will just copy the spell it procced off and the multi strike copied spell can still proc all of the things that it could as if it wasn't a multi strike proc.
Please tell me it's not just me who see the problems with that?

Spin2win?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Spin2win?

Yes exactly, if you look at our aoe difference with and without 4 set... Imagine that difference for single target. That's my exact fear, also if you ever get a multi strike item you'd basically never replace it..

[Weightlifter]

2 set can proc even if exorcism isn't on CD.

Had a few tweets with the Celestalon guy.
If the ability that procced multi strike or cleave can crit the multi strike can crit, if that sticks then prepare your anus for crit specs to do nasty things to you. Oh well, at least it's still early...

Unlikely because warriors had Sweeping Strikes like that and it was fixed in Vanilla. Just like our mastery cannot crit.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

It's confirmed that "multi strikes" can crit etc, here's the thing multi strike is a true copy of the spell/ability that procced the effect (not the damage) and that's the scary part. It's not 5% or 10% that your 2k crusader strike will deal another 400 damage. It's a chance that your 2k CS will proc a instant CS with all the benefits a CS (or whatever spell) carries with it. Like combo points, talent procs, trinkets and such.
With the "cleave" and multistrike trinkets in SoO you see their damage as "Cleave" or "Multistrike", in WoD they'll be whatever spell they procced from. We can get a multistrike from hand of light but because HoL can't crit the multistrike version can't either. But a Chaos Bolt which a guaranteed crit the multistrike version will also be a guaranteed crit.

You should be able to see some of the problems this can create...

Ill share links when I get home (I'm on my phone atm)

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Yes exactly, if you look at our aoe difference with and without 4 set... Imagine that difference for single target. That's my exact fear, also if you ever get a multi strike item you'd basically never replace it..

Yeah, last night on Garrosh:

Attempt one (some idiot dps thought they could stand in Annihilate), I had 1.3 million DPS in P1.
Attempt two (the kill) I had 700k dps in P1

Guess which one had zero T16_4p procs in P1.

Multistrike is going to be a nightmare to balance. Who knows, if we make a fuss now we might see a change to it in three years time (that's how long it took them to realize that comments back in the Cataclysm beta test that Vengeance was a stupid idea might actually have some merit)

I can already hear the fury warriors salivating.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

The only way I see "multistrike" work is if they make it as the current SoO trinkets. Just a flat 30% (unable to crit, not triggering any additional effects) damage copy from the triggering spell/ability. Can you imagine if we go with Divine Purpose and have a high enough chance of multi strike? Just imagine if our current 4set gave us a free TV instead of DS, that's sorta where things are going with multistrike... I'm kinda curious on how good it'll be on fire mages and balance druids which actually scale insanely with crits. More spells cast = higher crit totals = more procs = more damage. Yeh I'm not a big fan about this...

[anaxie]

Huntingbear you are always afraid of everything. This time is valid though clusterfuck inc.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

This is the different item setups for WoD (so far, not final)

tetriary + gem + wf + bis itemization
^ tetriary + gem + wf + non bis itemization
^ gem + wf + bis itemization
^ gem + wf + non bis itemization
^ wf + bis itemization
^ wf + non bis itemization
^ bis itemization
^ non bis itemization

good luck getting anywhere close to a "bis" equipped character...

[Fredzilla]

Can it proc off itself, since technically it just procs another ability, instead of something separate like the current multistrike trinkets? If so, seal of casino 2.0