Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Bonkura]

I actually have a question. Why does Mr. Robot put numbers so high? If I put in my own weights it shows me around 400.000 dps, how come?

Probably SimCraft values. Let's say you have 1000 strength and put it in SimC, then it will calculate how much each rating of strength from adding another 1000 would be worth. Now as you may understand, due to gear scaling, the value of strength becomes higher. So the 1000 strength wouldn't be worth as much if you had less stats. TL;DR: Just multiplying all your stats with the stat weights you get from SimC doesn't give you your total DPS.

[Curulan]

AMR doesn't show you "DPS". It shows a calculated score based on the weights entered. If you use normalized weights (str=1), you'd get the same results with a much lower score.

[Zoopercat]

Looks like Bonkura and Curulan answered it! The score we show is stat weight multiplied by each stat. Now if you get weights out of SimC that represent DPS (for example, 1 point of STR = 1.12 DPS, a weight of 1.12 would be representative). However, even though that approach *might* ballpark DPS we don't recommend it. For example, we add extra score to set bonuses, trinket procs, etc, and it can throw off the score. We also do NOT add extra score for meeting haste breakpoints (we just make a rule that you have to meet a breakpoint, but associate no score with it). So we always recommend that you export your setup to simC (click the gray export to SimC button right above your stat section).

[Kragshot]

I didn't say that in regards to your gear. I would only switch 4p for 4p, even if the two t16 pieces are normal. As to the updated question, yes, if you have a mixed t15 between normal and lfr, and are trading it in for a mixed t16 4p where one is lfr, one flex and 2 normal, then absolutely move up. I had a t15 full normal set and traded it in for t16 4p with one normal and 3 flex and it was a dps increase of about 10k on single target, can range between 1.5-2x better on fights with adds depending on procs.

Mainly though what I was saying in my earlier post is that just because an item is on the BiS list, doesn't make it BiS for you at this particular time. If you had access to every piece in the raid, then the opening list is the best, until you get all those pieces you will have to individualize your set to make it work. Which if you start looking at some of the poster's armories with high ilvl chars you will see that they are doing exactly that.

Okay...that makes sense. Thanks for the head's up.

And in any case, I just coined the Shoulders off of Blackfuse Normal last night...so all I'm missing are the gloves now. Also got the ring off of him with DKP...now to get those gloves, and the two items off of Thok and I'll be in business.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Do you need single target damage? If yes, Sanctified Wrath

Do you need aoe damage? If yes, Divine Purpose

Immerseus: Divine Purpose
Fallen Protectors: Divine Purpose
Norushen: Divine Purpose (People may jump on me here, but the availability to divine storm adds (You can hit both the amalgamation and adds casting from outside) is more important than pure boss damage, especially considering soul link) Adds should (early on at least) be reserved to dps for people who hasn't cleared their crap, later on I also DS but only with 4set.
Sha of Pride: Divine Purpose (Adds and banishments > Boss damage, the fight is pretty light on softenrage) - DP is quite strong here, if your raid positioning is good then you should have each banishment in range of the boss and at that point spin 2 win is king.
Galakras: Divine Purpose
Iron Juggernaut: Sanctified Wrath
Dark Shamans: Sanctified Wrath (Assuming you split the bosses up)
Nazgrim: Sanctified Wrath
Malkorok: Sanctified Wrath
Spoils: Divine Purpose, spin to win
Thok: Sanctified Wrath for boss damage. If you have a weak aoe setup, you may want to use holy avenger for bats
Siegecrafter: First group on belt? Sanctified Wrath. Second group on belt? Holy Avenger - I'm usually on the first belt team, don't run into line up problems until the third time I'm up (5th total belt spawn) but then guardian is back again so.
Paragons of the Klaxxi: Sanctified Wrath
Garrosh: Sanctified Wrath


This may not yield the highest dps, but downing a boss > highest dps. Farm is for whoring meters, in which anything with adds = Divine Purpose

Wish there was more ways to tag the last sentence you said, often get the impression that DPS > all by some players which make kittens cry.

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Relying on divine purpose there is not a good idea for progression purposes (Consistency > Potential)

I think I'm in love with your mind, may I have your babies?

(finally someone who gets that DPS doesn't actually matter if it's going on crap with low priority...)

[Deleted]

Looks like Bonkura and Curulan answered it! The score we show is stat weight multiplied by each stat. Now if you get weights out of SimC that represent DPS (for example, 1 point of STR = 1.12 DPS, a weight of 1.12 would be representative). However, even though that approach *might* ballpark DPS we don't recommend it. For example, we add extra score to set bonuses, trinket procs, etc, and it can throw off the score. We also do NOT add extra score for meeting haste breakpoints (we just make a rule that you have to meet a breakpoint, but associate no score with it). So we always recommend that you export your setup to simC (click the gray export to SimC button right above your stat section).

Here I was adding in gear on my own, looking up their id on wowhead and shit Could have used this info few months earlier!

[Tanyn]

Wish there was more ways to tag the last sentence you said, often get the impression that DPS > all by some players which make kittens cry.

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I think I'm in love with your mind, may I have your babies?

(finally someone who gets that DPS doesn't actually matter if it's going on crap with low priority...)

Actually, what he was saying was that you can't plan around Divine Purpose proc's high end. Meaning that you have to plan each attempt as if you'll get the minimum amount of procs so that if you actually do, you will still have enough dps to get the job done. So, that you never actually fail a dps check because you didn't get enough procs. In this case, adds on the fight. You cannot expect to always have DP procs for the few seconds they're up.

[Fargus]

Sha of Pride: Divine Purpose (Adds and banishments > Boss damage, the fight is pretty light on softenrage)

If you want to meter pad, yeah, go for DP on this boss (majority of the time though, you'll be DPSing the boss so I don't really see the benefit of DP here). But your priority is wrong here - it's banishments > boss > adds. Adds are cleaved down relatively quickly, dpsing the boss here is far more important than padding the meters. It makes it a lot easier in the end, especially when you have silly people dying to silly things and you're close to the berserker timer.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Actually, what he was saying was that you can't plan around Divine Purpose proc's high end. Meaning that you have to plan each attempt as if you'll get the minimum amount of procs so that if you actually do, you will still have enough dps to get the job done. So, that you never actually fail a dps check because you didn't get enough procs. In this case, adds on the fight. You cannot expect to always have DP procs for the few seconds they're up.

I know, but mainly dps hungry morons will go with DP on "semi-cleave" fights and pray for RNG to be on their side, progress EVERYTHING is about getting as many consistent tries as you can. Having too low dps one try because someone didn't crit at the correct time or didn't have a spree of rng is NOT the way to progress.

Also if you're part of the belt team(s) on Blackfuse you might get 20-25sec tops on the boss/mines before you have to shuffle off again so it's not even going to matter how much you do there, in fact I'm almost certain that if you spec SW and do your job good you can prob go with 1 less dpser on your team buying your raid a full dpser on the boss instead. Or at least make your belt group able to leave a couple seconds earlier and dps more.

...ahhh so many words, but yeah we agree :P

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If you want to meter pad, yeah, go for DP on this boss (majority of the time though, you'll be DPSing the boss so I don't really see the benefit of DP here). But your priority is wrong here - it's banishments > boss > adds. Adds are cleaved down relatively quickly, dpsing the boss here is far more important than padding the meters. It makes it a lot easier in the end, especially when you have silly people dying to silly things and you're close to the berserker timer.

In 25man we get what? 5-6 banishments, if people did their crap correctly they should be fairly clumped up at the 3-4 "zones" (our tactic at least) so DP for cleaving onto the boss and potentially lots of banish mobs + reflection mobs? saving cds just for banishments is gonna ruin your day when you find yourself banished with everything ready to go.

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New topic.

Glyph of Divine Storm.
Surely I can't be the only one using it over Avenging Wrath glyph, even without DP it does way more healing I feel.

[Fredzilla]

I have been using DS over AW glyphs when it comes up. I don't know whether or not it ends up doing more healing (I'd so it would, but it would also probably depend on your proc luck), but it's more constant on average, instead of just during AW. Helps more with any kind of ticking damage or the like, I would say. And it can be pretty bursty if you get lucky.

[mashanu]

I have been using DS over AW glyphs when it comes up. I don't know whether or not it ends up doing more healing (I'd so it would, but it would also probably depend on your proc luck), but it's more constant on average, instead of just during AW. Helps more with any kind of ticking damage or the like, I would say. And it can be pretty bursty if you get lucky.

used DS glyph on H galakras tonight. It did 1.3mil healing, I'm pretty sure it saved my life near the end, I had a huge string of back to back procs.

[Deleted]

hello guys, I'm getting crazy to gem my paladin; I started following elitistjerks so fierce vermilion onyx in red talking bout red sockets. Now with 5.4 we stop with haste at 40% to raise mastery. I 've used a different combination of gems that seems fine but when I check my char on Ask Mr Robot and optimize, it shows a different setup of gems. I wonder what I'm doing wrong.

this is my Mr Robot link:

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/eonar/jedima

[Neldarie]

Playing with DP/4set procs is more when playing single target is more than just saying "amg its inconsistant" , it's actually very consinstant if you know what you are doing and you can always have 1-2 procs banked for when mind controls do happen = 100% consistancy in my book. Thats negating the fact that they keep on procing each other hence you actually can get 3 storms into a single mind control quite frequent. P1 adds can die before ironstars happen = less raid dmg, first intermission spin_to_win approach makes adds just splat all over the place. And in regards to p4 your sologain as SWret vs DPret wont make or break the fight. Like talking about my raid specificly we only saw p4 maybe 4-5 times total. Consistancy in other departments is what was a problem and my DP carried is all I have to say . Way GarroshH works in the first place is all about getting far into the fight and not what you actually do there because overall the whole encounter post specific gear requirements which 25mans never even saw apart from top3 guilds maybe. Because ye mechanically the fight is pretty much a joke.

The same can be said about Norushen/Immerseus (not that those fights matter at all), but in regards of tactics/execution SW might be the way for some guilds.

[Deleted]

What happened to Not So Serious Neld?

[Neldarie]

Splat. Leadership had plans of quitting. Which I guess made people feel insecure about their future, which lead to mass exodus, which lead to inability to field a farm raid I guess.

[Deleted]

Well that sucks :|

[Deleted]

Well that sucks :|

Indeed, hope you find work soon Neldarie. Always a crushing disappointment to me when another 25-man guild bites the dust.

[Tanyn]

hello guys, I'm getting crazy to gem my paladin; I started following elitistjerks so fierce vermilion onyx in red talking bout red sockets. Now with 5.4 we stop with haste at 40% to raise mastery. I 've used a different combination of gems that seems fine but when I check my char on Ask Mr Robot and optimize, it shows a different setup of gems. I wonder what I'm doing wrong.

this is my Mr Robot link:

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/eonar/jedima

You can also go to Edit Weights and click Advanced and then put in your Haste soft cap. It's not a big deal now because you have around 40% Haste now, but as you gain more Haste you will see a need to use this.

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I really think the DP vs SW thing can be summed up with this statement: It really depends on your raid and how you fit into that raid. If you need more AoE DPS for certain fights than DP is better. If you need more single target than you are better off using SW.

[Fargus]

Banishment comes up a few seconds after the adds come out, you'll be cleaving from the banishments onto adds/the boss, so the priority here isn't wrong, it just dumps adds in with banishments as they happen around the same time. Killing the banishments quicker also lowers the risk of someone dying inside.

You can't spec and gear under the assumption that some of your raid will die and you're essentially 8/20 manning the boss.

You should be single targeting the banishments anyway. All I'm saying is that single target damage on the boss >>> add cleave, which is why SW is superior. The adds don't last long enough to justify hoping for DP procs and the majority of the fight is single target based. What I'm saying is that DP is used simply to pad, whereas if you're actually progressing on that boss SW will be more useful (and you WILL get deaths on this boss while progressing, most guilds aren't going to one shot it).

[Defender]

Splat. Leadership had plans of quitting. Which I guess made people feel insecure about their future, which lead to mass exodus, which lead to inability to field a farm raid I guess.

That is unfortunate to hear, Neld.