Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I know that "feelings" don't generally lend themselves to empirical debate, but I "feel" like 16-17k haste is enough for me to never have a GCD un-used (plus, I can't get to 50% haste with my current gear (the crit/hit boots and protectors ring don't exactly help in that regard).

[Fredzilla]

How did you come to all these conclusions?



Not me.

Maybe you aren't pressing enough buttons then? Any time that you use one ability over another (like a 4pc proc over CS, judge, exo), its reducing the benefit you get from haste, because haste is powerful through SoB. If you get the haste to reduce your CD/GCD, but dont use abilities when they come up after the reduced CD, it devalues the stat. Whats the point of having a 4.5 sec CD judge if you still only use it every 6 seconds because of all your other buttons?

[Deleted]

Not me.

This. The 0,07 sec difference between 40% and 50% haste is noticable, but not a problem at all. You have still 1 sec to push the next button. Feels like a minute sometimes.

Edit: @Fredzilla: The gcd is reduced. You use all your abilities faster. The amount of free gcds is exactly the same with 0% haste and 50% haste.

Edit2:

Actually, it's because the sims show 40% as the inflection point where haste stops giving dps increases. So ya, screw the sims and screw reading half the thread

Thats wrong. Sims show that haste is (a bit) better up to 50%. The only reason to stop at 40% is, that it could be better on some bosses, but worse on other (less important) bosses.

[Neldarie]

"The 0,07 sec difference between 40% and 50% haste is noticable"

Thats prolly the most retarded thing I've heard from you (your other points/statements had their weight). But ye no human being will notice a 0.07sec delay. The only reason haste would continue holding its weight vs other stats post 40% would be metagem/cloakprocs/2setprocs.

I personally stopped at 40% because I cba reforging between every fight. The gains are minimal in general whichever way you go with it with all 3 ratings being so close in value this tier. And overall 40% is number to be at if you don't plan to minmax from boss to boss.

[anaxie]

Closelined by Neldarie

[Deleted]

It's a 7% longer gcd. Do you notice a 70 ms higher latency? I do that.

Edit:

I personally stopped at 40% because I cba reforging between every fight. The gains are minimal in general whichever way you go with it with all 3 ratings being so close in value this tier. And overall 40% is number to be at if you don't plan to minmax from boss to boss.

That's the reason, why I stop at 40% haste, too.

[anaxie]

It's a 7% longer gcd. Do you notice a 70 ms higher latency? I do that.

Naw haste doesn't reduce the GCD. No way

[Deleted]

Naw haste doesn't reduce the GCD. No way

Just kidding or retarded?

Infracted. ~Fhi

[anaxie]

That's the reason, why I stop at 40% haste, too.

Then why is this being discussed? Are you trying to convince yourself?

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Just kidding or retarded?

Why not Zoidberg

[Neldarie]

The 70 ms during the button mashing rotation is hardly noticable. It is however when you are trying to land an interrupt at last possible second or being too late with some clutch HoP/LoHanding.

[anaxie]

The 70 ms during the button mashing rotation is hardly noticable. It is however when you are trying to land an interrupt at last possible second or being too late with some clutch HoP/LoHanding.

Am I bad if I havn't had WoG on my bar since the spell was implemented? D:

[Neldarie]

WoG's dogshit :< (think it was op somewhere in Cataclysm somewhere in pvp or w-e).

[anaxie]

WoG's dogshit :<

Yay!!! We did it!

Are you raiding next expansion?

[Deleted]

I think the only time I've used WoG is when I had a divine purpose proc on Immerseus and only used it only a healing blob to pop it to full health. Else I've never used it. I loved the Last word talent which gave 60% more crit when you had 35% health or lower but since it's gone and WoG was nerfed(correct me if I'm wrong) with mop it's not really worth it.

Also, I've been thinking and this is just a speculation but imo hammer spamming becomes quite annoying and I miss the Hammer execute feeling. But could it be interesting if they made HoW only usable below 20% with 60% crit chance again and can't be usable during Wings. Change Sanctified Wrath to make it last 30-35 sec as it does now but make you ignore 50% of the enemy's defenses as it did during wrath and maybe add 5% more dmg to wings with this CD and make Holy Avenger last 20 sec instead of 15 sec and make finisher not trigger a global cd when this is active.

It's just an idea and just curious if it would make it more interesting or just dull ^^

[Deleted]

Maybe you aren't pressing enough buttons then? Any time that you use one ability over another (like a 4pc proc over CS, judge, exo), its reducing the benefit you get from haste, because haste is powerful through SoB. If you get the haste to reduce your CD/GCD, but dont use abilities when they come up after the reduced CD, it devalues the stat. Whats the point of having a 4.5 sec CD judge if you still only use it every 6 seconds because of all your other buttons?

How can you be certain it devalues haste enough for mastery to pull ahead?

[anaxie]

The reason hammerspam is so potent is because it allows us to weed out all the weak fillers for that period of time. Well one of the reasons rather.

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How can you be certain it devalues haste enough for mastery to pull ahead?

because the abilties that take priority are mastery based. Thus mastery becomes a higher % of overall dps. Especially when you hit a point when the mastery hit is harder then the initial hit.

[Deleted]

The 40% "cap" discussion has always been funny to me.

Everyone keeps going on about how we are GCD capped and how bad that makes haste. Using the example of 40% vs. 50% haste, some very simple calculations show that in a 5 min fight where you are GCD capped, you'll do 20 more abilities than the guy going for the 40% "cap". Would his 7% extra mastery damage outweigh the damage of those 20 abilities? I have a hard time believing that and until I see some pretty solid evidence to the contrary and I start losing ranks to "cappers" I'll keep on running haste.

In the end it's such a small impact that people can do whatever the hell they like, but it bugs me when that "cap" is spoken of like it's the Truth.

[Deleted]

Then why is this being discussed? Are you trying to convince yourself?

Because too many people think, that it's wrong to stack more than 40% haste. But it's not. They are both viable options, if you know the differences.

The 70 ms during the button mashing rotation is hardly noticable. It is however when you are trying to land an interrupt at last possible second or being too late with some clutch HoP/LoHanding.

The difference between 50 ms and 120 ms is so "noticable" that it's annoying to me. That's noticable enough for me. At the end it's less gcd, whether you notice it or not.

[Deleted]

because the abilties that take priority are mastery based. Thus mastery becomes a higher % of overall dps.

This would indicate that mastery increases in value, but again, you don't know by how much and you don't know if it surpasses haste.

Good to see you here Ostfront.

[Fiddlesnarf]

I personally stopped gemming/reforging at 35% Haste. It feels much better to me than the 40% I ran with for awhile.
I just think anyone should shoot for the amount of Haste they're most comfortable with.