Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Deleted]

I have seal of the forgotten kings(hc) and asgorithan blood seal(hc). Which would you exchange for devilfang band (hc wf)? I'm personally thinking exchanging asgorithan because of the overload of expertise, then again I'm only a mortal

[Fredzilla]

I have seal of the forgotten kings(hc) and asgorithan blood seal(hc). Which would you exchange for devilfang band (hc wf)? I'm personally thinking exchanging asgorithan because of the overload of expertise, then again I'm only a mortal

Yes, replace devilfang with asgorathian for your aforementioned expertise reason. The more exp you can gem instead of strength, the better.

[Prometheous]

Garrosh down! Maybe now I can catch up on valor?

I hope next tier there are less ways to pad on fights :/

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Garrosh down! Maybe now I can catch up on valor?

I hope next tier there are less ways to pad on fights :/

Padding is always going to be around in some form, up to you if you want to participate in it or not. As far as I'm concerned it's pointless and doesn't prove anything.

[Relimash]

Padding can prove some things. It's really just up to you to decide if you care about the things it proves or not.

[Calimon-ZJ]

Padding can prove some things. It's really just up to you to decide if you care about the things it proves or not.

Proves what exactly?

[Relimash]

Proves what exactly?

Proves that people would go out of their way to scumbag on a progression fight. You aren't going to rank by pure padding, this teir it comes down to strats and pretty much picking who you want to scumbag the adds. Padding can prove very few things many of which - aren't very good things to prove about yourself as a cooperative player.

[Deleted]

Raidbots is much better. It shows every kill and the Percentile of your dps (and remembers it!). You see how often someone is good, which is a very important information. But you don't see the strat and you don't see wipes, so you can be a failer and wipe the raid every third attempt and nobody knows.^^ And of course you have to keep the gear in mind. People in bad guilds can be good, but they don't have the gear to compete with you. A "very good" skill meter doesn't exist.

[Titans]

Raidbots is much better. It shows every kill and the Percentile of your dps (and remembers it!). You see how often someone is good, which is a very important information. But you don't see the strat and you don't see wipes, so you can be a failer and wipe the raid every third attempt and nobody knows.^^ And of course you have to keep the gear in mind. People in bad guilds can be good, but they don't have the gear to compete with you. A "very good" skill meter doesn't exist.

Warcraft logs does percentiles, and I must say, it is sooo much better than raidbots. Take patchwerk fight like iron jugg. You can see every ret ho has done more dps on that fight than you, look at who in that category has similar gear and a similar kill time, and look at their ability breakdown to see what they are doing differently that is working so well.

Or a fight like Malkarok- is the higher ranked ret padding on the adds? Is their guild killing it 2 minutes faster than yours? does that ret have 10% more haste and less mastery than you? or is it a rotational thing?

I would also add that padding on progression is the most useless thing that can be done, as it is entirely taking away dps from elsewhere. For example, warcraft logs shows on heroic garrosh things like "28 million unnecessary damage done to adds in p1" which suggests the boss could be pushed that much faster. Are things like a t16 4 set proc doing aoe but also part of the single target rotation going to be a hindrance? No. Same goes for duel-wield frost dk using howling blast. And as far as im concerned, once that last boss is dead its pad pad city bitch, and along with that is getting competitive with rankings so as to stay interested in the game near the end of an expac. But that being said, no heroic raider should be ranking on a progression kill, and padding at that point is just preventing the real padding on fights after ra-den/garrosh etc is dead.

[Deleted]

no heroic raider should be ranking on a progression kill, .

Not even the first ones to kill it? How does that work?

[Deleted]

But that being said, no heroic raider should be ranking on a progression kill

What do you mean by this?

[Deleted]

What do you mean by this?

I would assume he associates ranking with AoE'ing anything with a nameplate - behaviour that is generally frowned upon during progress.

The fact of the matter, obviously, is that during progression every exceptional player should be ranking just by doing their job, since "cheese" parses won't make up a particularly large part of the sample pool yet, and simply pew-pew'ing boss at 95% efficiency should be enough to rank.

[Deleted]

Warcraft logs does percentiles, and I must say, it is sooo much better than raidbots. Take patchwerk fight like iron jugg. You can see every ret ho has done more dps on that fight than you, look at who in that category has similar gear and a similar kill time, and look at their ability breakdown to see what they are doing differently that is working so well.

Or a fight like Malkarok- is the higher ranked ret padding on the adds? Is their guild killing it 2 minutes faster than yours? does that ret have 10% more haste and less mastery than you? or is it a rotational thing?

I would also add that padding on progression is the most useless thing that can be done, as it is entirely taking away dps from elsewhere. For example, warcraft logs shows on heroic garrosh things like "28 million unnecessary damage done to adds in p1" which suggests the boss could be pushed that much faster. Are things like a t16 4 set proc doing aoe but also part of the single target rotation going to be a hindrance? No. Same goes for duel-wield frost dk using howling blast. And as far as im concerned, once that last boss is dead its pad pad city bitch, and along with that is getting competitive with rankings so as to stay interested in the game near the end of an expac. But that being said, no heroic raider should be ranking on a progression kill, and padding at that point is just preventing the real padding on fights after ra-den/garrosh etc is dead.

This are actually useful features. I should probably try Warcraft Logs. Does it show the percentile for when you killed the boss or does it work like the rankings in WoL where you can only guess whether an old log was good back then or not?

padding on progression is the most useless thing that can be done

So true. Bench or kick them. If it isn't their main goal to kill the boss, they shouldn't be in a progression guild.

[Titans]

Sorry, I didn't think it was that unclear- all I meant is that after the first few months of a patch, a heroic progression guild shouldn't be seeing people with 99th percentile parses on their first kill, if only by virtue of the fact that the people ranking higher than them have better gear, faster kill times, and more efficient execution; anyone beating a higher ranked player like that on a progression kill is almost definitely padding, and the people who just happened to get perfect procs/perfect execution on the kill attempt are in the minority. And padding on progression is taking away from boss damage, which means a longer kill, which means more time for potential mistakes or wipes or enrage to happen. If there are two adds up that you know the prot pally main tank will kill with avengers shield unglyphed, then using divine storm unprocced is just a waste of damage, regardless of whether you rank or not.

Of course the first 150 rets to kill a boss will have a rank in the top 150 as of the time of their kill. But that 151st ret should not necessarily rank on their first kill if they play the same as the 150th, because every guild before them has better loot and (usually) a faster kill time. And like I said before, if you pad on that 151st kill to be in the top 150, then you are to an extent hindering progression.

[Deleted]

anyone beating a higher ranked player like that on a progression kill is almost definitely padding

Or they are better? It's not unthinkable that guilds have players performing on a higher level than their guild rank would suggest.

[Deleted]

Of course the first 150 rets to kill a boss will have a rank in the top 150 as of the time of their kill. But that 151st ret should not necessarily rank on their first kill if they play the same as the 150th, because every guild before them has better loot and (usually) a faster kill time. And like I said before, if you pad on that 151st kill to be in the top 150, then you are to an extent hindering progression.

Or the 151th has more luck/plays better/has better gear than someone in the top 150. I got for example a rank 1 on H Dark Shamans in the first heroic ID, because I got a HC weapon from Sha of Pride (and I had a N WF Thok trinket). If you are doing your job, getting a rank is a good thing. It doesn't necessarily mean that you did something wrong.

[Relimash]

You'd be surprise how many people unknowgly/unconsciously pad. Just because they see 2+ targets their brain tells them what to do. On a fight like paragons - the biggest padding boss of this teir. If you look at a rets log and see one hotr - they are padding. Even if they are hitting parasites the argument can be made that those adds would have died anyway therefore it was padding. Holding 4p procs for adds is also -sadly- padding.

All of us have padded. I'm 99% sure of it and if you have never padded -grats. On farm for this long? All of us are bound to have our moment in the padding sun.

But the main thing is to remember this, if you're padding and it can wipe the raid? You're the worst person in your guild from that moment on.

And if we wipe one more time on farm to paragons because we hit enrage? No. Just no pls.

[Deleted]

what about downing another boss and korven at the same time for the amber? is this padding too on paragon? ...

[Relimash]

what about downing another boss and korven at the same time for the amber? is this padding too on paragon? ...

No thats a strat.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

You'd be surprise how many people unknowgly/unconsciously pad. Just because they see 2+ targets their brain tells them what to do. On a fight like paragons - the biggest padding boss of this teir. If you look at a rets log and see one hotr - they are padding. Even if they are hitting parasites the argument can be made that those adds would have died anyway therefore it was padding. Holding 4p procs for adds is also -sadly- padding.

All of us have padded. I'm 99% sure of it and if you have never padded -grats. On farm for this long? All of us are bound to have our moment in the padding sun.

But the main thing is to remember this, if you're padding and it can wipe the raid? You're the worst person in your guild from that moment on.

And if we wipe one more time on farm to paragons because we hit enrage? No. Just no pls.

Well yes ofcourse people "pad" when things are on farm or play sloppy for whatever reason (content being out for 7+ months makes it boring so you don't rly care) however it doesn't prove any skill or brains that you padded to a 700k dps on Paragons or any other fight. I use Divine Purpose on Garrosh because it doesn't really matter and apart from the slightly higher on demand burst that SW provides the end number (on garrosh) isn't significantly higher or lower than SW. Because I run with DP I once in a blue moon end up with absolute perfect RNG and beat warlocks, hunters and warriors on P1 adds damage done + top on 1st room phase adds and 1st on Mind Controll. That makes my dps go fucking mental and I'm usually just beaten by the tanks, what does that prove? Absofuckinglutely nothing. I played with the resources I got, the next try I almost guaranteed won't see the same result- does that make me worse? No, I still played with what I got.
It's not a problem with padding that I personally have, it's pointless and that's about it. The problem I have is people trying to put some sort of value to their "proraiders" rank or whatever when it's got 0 value.
Take the current Rank 1 dps ret on Immersius, put me or any half decent ret up in the same situation (only one allowed to aoe adds) and we'd get simmilar results where the difference is just going to be the DP/4set procs.