The Disenchant Button

[Aquamonkey]

it seems enchanters have become more and more selfish ever since this DE option was added.

before LFD was added it often was the deal the enchanter woulld greed and everyone else pass if no one needed it. and then in the end of the run everyone rolled and the shards were split among the highest rollers (1 per person, highest roll first/lowest roll last) all blizzard did was automate this process. but ever since this was introduced more and more selfish enchanters have shown up. which i find a shame.

That was a choice on the enchanter's part. Sometimes I wouldn't say I was an enchanter if I didn't feel like DE'ing a bunch of crap at the end. Or sometimes people would leave before the items were disenchanted.

[Synstir]

Imagine this scenario
"Gringgotts disenchanted item x for the group"

What? Maybe I didn't want to disenchant it for that guy.

I think the disenchant button should be exclusive to enchanters, what are your thoughts?

Side note: Would love to be able to disenchant items in the "will not be traded window".

I don't see the issue.
Instead of winning the item, you can win the mats it gives after disenchanting.
Everyone has the same chance to win it.

After reading this post, I think they should make it a default option and not only when an echanter is in te group.

[Deleted]

Great argument mate. If you dont have anything serious to offer, stay away from posting

Your own argument is pretty asinine comparing enchanting to skinning. It would be a different argument if 4 crystal, 8 shards and 14 dust dropped and that SPriest could just hit a button enchanting his new weapon with Power Torrent solely because you were in his group and you took the time to level up enchanting. Miners get to gather ore and smelt it, that's it. Skinners get to gather leather and nothing else aside from a useless crit buff. Enchanters get to enchant gear and gather mats to do so. Blacksmiths don't get to gather metals, they have to level up a miner or buy it from one. So if want to be like the miner or skinner you would have to argue the case to seperate enchanting and disenchanting into two professions because it's in that the parity lies.

[AeneasBK]

Great argument mate. If you dont have anything serious to offer, stay away from posting

Kinda cute but tbh you've oversimplified the issue to suit your needs. You are implying the pig is guarding the node and not the "end boss for valor points thanks cyabai" which is why ppl do dungeons. That coupled with the point the psoter after me made... Sorry if I didn't bother to take your argument seriously at first I knew (as has been happening a lot in this thread) someone else would take it to pieces for me.

Frankly you've added nothing "serious" to this thread either so, pot, kettle, black, maybe?

[Iskra22]

And how do you determine that?

Demand already varies much more than 50% over the course of a few days, due to the fact that most farmraids are done shortly after the reset.

And you can't even measure demand, only sales, which are also strongly influenced by the activities of your competitors.

You can get a pretty good feel for demand (at least demand which translates into sales which is what we're talking about) by looking at your sales volume, and that of your competitors. If you want to be super rigorous you can look at TUJ or something which will show activity levels of different commodities.

Think about it:
- How many farmraids are there on tuesday?
- How many people buy scrolls in anticipation of loot they expect to get the next day?

In short, demand on the day before the reset is lowest of the week - it has to be.

Yet you see highest prices and sales volumes that day. Obviously your sales are a useless measure for demand, so "from what you've seen" means nothing. Your sales and margins on tuesday probably go up due to lack of competition that day, definately not due to increased demand.

I think there's some confusion here. I'm on a US realm, so my reset occurs on Tuesdays. That said, reset day carries with it by far the highest prices and highest demand simultaneously due to everyone getting new gear. There's a smaller spike also on Saturday where the weekend raiders get their gear. I'd find it highly unusual if you didn't get your highest volume of sales and highest prices on reset day, but I suppose its possible. I'd find it really hard to wrap my head around a situation where that's happening though.

I may be misunderstanding, but it seems to me that you're saying you get your highest sales volume and demand on the day before reset, presumably due to people stocking up for their new gear that will drop the next day. I suppose that'd be logical, at least for gems, I'm not sure how you'd buy enchants the day before without knowing what slot of gear would drop beforehand. But that has most certainly never ever happened on any realm that I've played on. Which is not to say it isn't happening on yours, but I'd find it really unusual.

This is basically the evidence that leads me to believe that demand is not really all that elastic. People get their new gear on reset day and they pay the highest prices of the week immediately to prepare that gear. If prices strongly drove demand and sales we'd see highest volume later in the week when prices drop from their reset day spikes.

Any change in the price will cause a change in demand.

Especially since people can so easily obtain enchants outside the AH, which is what many will do.

I don't really consider people who get their enchants outside the AH as being part of the market in this case. They're not going to buy the scroll off the AH either way (unless its cheaper than mats I suppose), so they don't really affect demand.

"Any change in price will cause a change in demand" is basically the definition of elasticity, and I'm not entirely convinced that its that simple. I'd say demand is elastic to a certain degree, but only in the case of really large price shifts which we don't see day to day. If enchant prices doubled or more overnight we'd see some drop in demand, but buyers have no problem creating peak demand at a 50% or higher markup on reset day, so I'm hesitant to subscribe to a simple linear cause and effect relationship.

[Schaapa]

You're comparing two stand-alone gathering professions to a secondary bonus of a crafting profession, that's what you call a fair comparision?

Disenchant isn't a "secondary bonus to a crafting profession", it's how enchanters get their materials.

[vian]

Why even bother being a selfish bastard?

[woopytywoop]

I am enchanter myself and i don't care at all...

I mean with spare JP or HP we can buy cheap epics from vendor, DE it and with guild perks maybe get a proc which makes it a lot cheaper for us to get crystals.
No I don't want to go back to the old way (pre LFD), where you had an enchanter greeding and everyone else passing and at the end you rolled for it.
This was the most common way to do it when you did a run with people from your realm or guild. You didn't want to be a prick not doing this because you'd get a bad reputation and no invites for the future.

Then LFD came and the method i described which was most common to do when you ran with civilised people served as model for the DE button.

Is it really that bad that the system think you're a friendly guy who doesn't mind helping people out?

Unlike skinners, miners and herbers, we have a prof that provides the materials and the products. So if someone wants to be a LW, he needs skinning or needs an alt that has skinning or buy fom AH. We just need 1 profession to make it work, all other crafting professions need the back up of a gathering prof.

[Aquamonkey]

I have an enchanter and the current situation doesn't bother me at all. Enchanters essentially get 2 professions out of only 1. Not only can they make and sell enchants, they can make the mats for them too. To make a comparison, it's like me having a LW and being able to skin the beasties for my mats and still having another prof slot open in case I want to level herbalism or something. And if you're complaining about people taking gold from you, go sell the actual enchants instead of the mats. Enchanting mats are at retarded prices on my server anyway; I can only imagine how insane they would be if only enchanters could get them.

There's a MAJOR difference between flying around till something pops up on the minimap or killing mobs that you know you can skin beforehand and farming for a random drop green to DE. Then there's the sheer scarcity of crystals (raid drops, world BoEs, epic crafted items only) at the beginning of Cata that were required for enchanters to get their recipes. "What? You have to turn in a bunch of leather for the pristine hides? What? You have to go loot cloth and volatiles for dreamcloth? I feel sorry for you, bro. I gotta go do a raid and pray nobody needs the epic drops so that I can get a 1/10 or 1/25 chance to win the roll before I can get my enchanting recipes."

[AeneasBK]

"What? You have to turn in a bunch of leather for the pristine hides? What? You have to go loot cloth and volatiles for dreamcloth? I feel sorry for you, bro. I gotta go do a raid and pray nobody needs the epic drops so that I can get a 1/10 or 1/25 chance to win the roll before I can get my enchanting recipes."

True but the guild you're running with isn't giving you the crystals to buy the recipes the guild (or you) needs, then thats a bummer. Eitherways the prices of the expensive enchants reflected that back at the beggining of Cata also...

[Atrea]

There's a MAJOR difference between flying around till something pops up on the minimap or killing mobs that you know you can skin beforehand and farming for a random drop green to DE. Then there's the sheer scarcity of crystals (raid drops, world BoEs, epic crafted items only) at the beginning of Cata that were required for enchanters to get their recipes. "What? You have to turn in a bunch of leather for the pristine hides? What? You have to go loot cloth and volatiles for dreamcloth? I feel sorry for you, bro. I gotta go do a raid and pray nobody needs the epic drops so that I can get a 1/10 or 1/25 chance to win the roll before I can get my enchanting recipes."

What really happened:

"No one needed the gear, so we gave the crystal to our Enchanter so they could learn the expensive enchants."

And if it didn't, then you were playing with a bunch of selfish douche bags, so it's not surprising you have such an attitude.

True but the guild you're running with isn't giving you the crystals to buy the recipes the guild (or you) needs, then thats a bummer. Eitherways the prices of the expensive enchants reflected that back at the beggining of Cata also...

Another solid point; how many people charged (minus the cost of Chaos Orbs) in the thousands for a single 525 vendor-bought pattern?
Nobody but enchanters.

[Shinoashi]

Yes, after all to do the disenchant they have to ...... wait.... they have to do Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Give them a roll bonus that equals what they had to do for the item to be disenchanted. A big, fat, round 0.

I have 2 max enchanters btw, 1 on each account and have never quite seen why enchanters weep and wail over this

except level the most expensive craft in the game high enough to disenchant the item? sigh.

[Atrea]

except level the most expensive craft in the game high enough to disenchant the item? sigh.

Anyone who thinks Enchanting is the most expensive profession to level has never leveled anything other than Alchemy or Tailoring.

Try Jewelcrafting, or Leatherworking or *shudder* Blacksmithing.
Leatherworking had the added gimmick of making whatever high-level pattern you learned turn yellow after two uses!

[AeneasBK]

except level the most expensive craft in the game high enough to disenchant the item? sigh.

I dispute your claim. Either ways its dependant on server economy I guess.

[Junkdepot]

If the enchanter (and I am one) had to actually receive the item and disenchant it before someone else could get the resulting materials, then I would say enchanters would have an argument. As it is, you have to do nothing. The server looks at the professions, marks a '1' in the column and then automatically does the conversions. The only time this really comes into play is LFR / LFD. Hell, in my regular raid groups, everything that isn't needed by someone automatically goes to either me or our other enchanter so that we can get the chance of the guild bonus materials. But, then again, my raid group (and guild) isn't comprised of selfish people only out for themselves and we all do things for each other without asking for or expecting anything in return.

[AeneasBK]

or *shudder* Blacksmithing.

Was wary of venturing this as an alternative profession that costs more, as I guess it depends on server economy. Would still say enchanting is pretty *easy* to level, and its certainly not the most expensive. Ironically thanks to the dungeon disenchant option, levelling enchanting has never been easier

[Deleted]

There's a MAJOR difference between flying around till something pops up on the minimap or killing mobs that you know you can skin beforehand and farming for a random drop green to DE. Then there's the sheer scarcity of crystals (raid drops, world BoEs, epic crafted items only) at the beginning of Cata that were required for enchanters to get their recipes. "What? You have to turn in a bunch of leather for the pristine hides? What? You have to go loot cloth and volatiles for dreamcloth? I feel sorry for you, bro. I gotta go do a raid and pray nobody needs the epic drops so that I can get a 1/10 or 1/25 chance to win the roll before I can get my enchanting recipes."

Dreamcloth crafted with volatiles is still on seven day CD. Now, granted now chaos orbs are not soulbound and are quite cheap it's not so much of an issue, but then my enchanter can buy a wand for 700 honor and maybe get a proc from that for two crystals so it balances out. the issue you are talking about is Blizzard wanted high end crafted goods to remain reasonably gated at the beginning of an expansion and I do agree with you enchanting suffers more from other crafting professions in this regard and the reason for this is tied to them being able to gather their own mats and how they gather them. This , really, isn't so much of a problem because if your in a guild that wants their players to have these enchants during this period then your guild will funnel you the mats, otherwise if you are Joe Bloggs enchanter wanting to make some gold the scarcity of the high end mats make their enchants too cost prohibitive for the majority of characters and gold can be made offering the lesser enchants to them. My own enchanter made enough gold during the first tier to buy the crystals from the AH for his own and my mains high end enchants, and being able to do so for daughter and girlfriends characters. It all balances out, and if you are a poor enchanter then you either don't really bother with gold, spent it all, or just levelled it up.

[Waniou]

I found enchanting to be pretty easy for the most part, especially after the DE button came out.

[Iskra22]

Another solid point; how many people charged (minus the cost of Chaos Orbs) in the thousands for a single 525 vendor-bought pattern?
Nobody but enchanters.

Again, may vary based on realm, and obviously not at the start of Cata, but I made an absolute killing on any and all recipes from the molten front dailies. Literally hundreds of thousands of gold, over the course of about a week.

[Aquamonkey]

Anyone who thinks Enchanting is the most expensive profession to level has never leveled anything other than Alchemy or Tailoring.

Try Jewelcrafting, or Leatherworking or *shudder* Blacksmithing.
Leatherworking had the added gimmick of making whatever high-level pattern you learned turn yellow after two uses!

Maybe not the most expensive, but the most tedious if you don't have the gold to buy mats from the AH. Farming for enchanting mats is basically like farming gear in D3 except you don't get a magic find stat. Kill a shit ton of mobs for a random chance to get a magic item. Then DE the item for a random quantity of dust, essence, or shard. Need essences? Better hope RNG favors weapons and even then it's no guarantee. Need shards? Better hope RNG favors blue item drops or shards coming from weapons.