Police kill man after knocking on wrong door

[wdmshmo]

Those officers should lose their job and the right to use a gun ever again.

Personally if I thought I was in danger I'd have a knife or a baseball bat in the hand which the door covers. Seems a bit daft to open a door with a gun in plain view.

Opening the door with a gun in plain view is normally to scare off whoever is at the door. But I doubt the police had guns drawn at the door, waiting for this man to open up. They probably had their hand on the gun, with holster unlocked and ready to draw. The deputy who fired the round that killed the man has been placed on leave.

And they don't have to announce themselves for knocking on a door. They can knock just like you and me, and wait for a person to open before saying anything. What is the point of yelling out "Police, open up!" at 0130? Likely it will wake multiple other residents in the complex, and stir up too much commotion. Safety reasons that don't necessarily pertain to a homicidal man on the other side of the door, but an entire complex full of people coming outside to see what is going on, when there is possibly a homicidal man in the area? Great plan. Bring everyone outside with someone who might be crazy enough to take someone hostage and shoot a few people.

Personally, if someone is at my door that early, I come to the door and ask "Who is it?" before even cracking the door. (That is probably when they would've quietly announced who they were, to reduce the possibility of putting civilians at risk.) And when I do, there's a nice steel hook that will only allow the door to open 5 inches or so, if I do not move it out of the way.

[Azurenys]

To all the incredibly stupid (sorry for flaming but seriously..) people who say the police is right.

How can they be right? What "safety reasons" are there? Safety of the cops? Well. Being safe isn't part of their job description, it's duty to protect first, guard themselves later. He was a SUSPECT, not even proven to be guilty, even if they were at the right door they had no RIGHT to shoot the man.

I even read "sounds like suicide-by-cop to me" ? Are you mentally disabled? He had no idea who it was, since they never presented themselves.

I mean it, put yourself in his situation. It's 1:30, at night, everything is quiet and you're in your apartment, probably sleeping. Suddenly a wild knocking on your door comes, with you not expecting anyone. He might have even glanced through a window/peephole and saw armed men in dark clothes (from the usual apartment buildings it's 95% certain there was no corridor light).

What would you do? Invite them in nicely? Citing the last user's post, using the "nice steel hook that will only allow the door to open 5 inches".. yeah, how would that protect you from stranger armed men? Guns suddenly need more than 5 inches to shoot you?

If you were armed you would've draw your gun as well. He had no time to ask who they were, the last thing that would go through an innocent man's mind at that moment would be it's the police. Armed men at his door at 1:30.

He panicked, drew his weapon and faced the assailants (or so he thought). Next thing he knew he was dead.

Police was right and doing their job, of course.

Utter facepalm to you all.

[Karrmer]

To all the incredibly stupid (sorry for flaming but seriously..) people who say the police is right.

How can they be right? What "safety reasons" are there? Safety of the cops? Well. Being safe isn't part of their job description, it's duty to protect first, guard themselves later. He was a SUSPECT, not even proven to be guilty, even if they were at the right door they had no RIGHT to shoot the man.

I even read "sounds like suicide-by-cop to me" ? Are you mentally disabled? He had no idea who it was, since they never presented themselves.

I mean it, put yourself in his situation. It's 1:30, at night, everything is quiet and you're in your apartment, probably sleeping. Suddenly a wild knocking on your door comes, with you not expecting anyone. He might have even glanced through a window/peephole and saw armed men in dark clothes (from the usual apartment buildings it's 95% certain there was no corridor light).

What would you do? Invite them in nicely? Citing the last user's post, using the "nice steel hook that will only allow the door to open 5 inches".. yeah, how would that protect you from stranger armed men? Guns suddenly need more than 5 inches to shoot you?

If you were armed you would've draw your gun as well. He had no time to ask who they were, the last thing that would go through an innocent man's mind at that moment would be it's the police. Armed men at his door at 1:30.

He panicked, drew his weapon and faced the assailants (or so he thought). Next thing he knew he was dead.

Police was right and doing their job, of course.

Utter facepalm to you all.

This entire post is just a long series of you making things up.

[Gandrake]

What gets me the most, is that, they "didn't identify themselves as police officers for safety reasons", but bothered to knock on the door. Sense motherfucker, do you make it?

Cops were 100% within their right. The man should have checked who was at the door (through window, eyehole, ASKED, etc.) before opening it with a gun in his hand. Of course the police aren't going to identify themselves, the guy they were after was wanted for murder and could have thus escaped.

What a wonderful country we live in, where our citizens think that it's okay for cops to kill people because they got the wrong address.

[Karrmer]

Clearly idiot cops.

The whole "oh my god, if you announce you're police the suspect is not gonna answer / flee" is such a bad, weak argument.

If they don't announce yourselves, how exactly are you going to know they are law enforcment? It is clear by the situation (grabbing a gun) that the victim was clearly threatned by the knock at his door. We can't tell the reason why he was afraid, but you don't just answer the door with a gun in a typical scenario.

Also, as we can see in the description of the no-announce warrant, those are done for specific reasons (Subject may destroy evidence, etc). Police believed to be knocking on a murderer's door. What evidence is there for him to destroy, justifying them not announcing themselves?

Announcing "police!" as they knock would, thus, end up in 3 scenarios:

1st- They give time to a suspect to prepare for resistance. Many would argue this to be a bad scenario, and it certaintly is for the Officers, but they signed up for a dangerous job and have to deal with it. Really. You can't just not announce for the POLICE's safety, because they are supposed to sacrifice for the lives of the common people. The civilians safety is supposed to come first.

2nd- The subject may be given time to flee. It was an apartment. What would he do, jump off the window? It's not like it's particulary hard to surround a house, either. So this is still a good scenario, as it keeps innocent people safe.

3rd- The subject answers the door, aware that it's the police, and either turn himself in or clear up the misunderstanding.

All 3 scenarios are good for civilians, but may be bad for the cops.

Considering they're supposed to live in danger and potentially sacrifice their lives, it seems like all scenarios fit that description.

What doesn't fit that description is cops shooting whoever opens the door (without even announcing themselves) because they believe the suspect is supposed to live there...simply because they fear for their own lives. I'M NOT SAYING THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED. I'm aggravating the situation to still show how it is bullshit.

If all we care about is the safety of the police officers, why try to knock on doors and arrest subjects? That's too dangerous. Let's toss a grenade inside the window.

Law enforcment will become a great thing when it's done by robots, not by people with their own safety and interests in mind. No joke.

You think a robot will be afraid of being shot at by a scared but innocent person? Hell no.

Or there is the scenario where a criminal drug dealer opens his door whenever someone knocks on it by pointing a gun in their face, committing felony threat with a weapon.

[Azurenys]

This entire post is just a long series of you making things up.

And your entire post is effing useless.

Care to elaborate EXACTLY WHAT I MADE UP? Please, do.

[Karrmer]

What gets me the most, is that, they "didn't identify themselves as police officers for safety reasons", but bothered to knock on the door. Sense motherfucker, do you make it?



What a wonderful country we live in, where our citizens think that it's okay for cops to kill people because they got the wrong address.

This is impossible. People really are just this fucking stupid. You are a fucking idiot.

He wasn't shot because they got the wrong address, he was shot because he was committing felony threat with a weapon by answering his stupid fucking door by pointing his fucking gun at people completely illegally like the stupid idiot fucking retarded drug addict piece of shit that he was.

---------- Post added 2012-07-18 at 09:51 AM ----------

And your entire post is effing useless.

Care to elaborate EXACTLY WHAT I MADE UP? Please, do.

You can't be "threatened" by a knock at your door. If you feel threatened, call the police. You don't get to answer the door and point a firearm at whomever is there. This is illegal for a VERY FUCKING OBVIOUS REASON YOU IDIOT PIECE OF SHIT.

The variety of scenarios you painted are stupid as fuck and not applicable. If this guy wasn't a criminal the only real scenario that would occur is the same one that occurs most of the time - the non-criminal answers the door unarmed, police quickly realize he is not a suspect, and proceed to question him on the potential whereabouts of the suspect since his vehicle is parked in front of this residents home. They then continue their search.

You don't get to answer your door by pointing a fucking gun at anyone that knocks on it in an apartment complex.

~ User was infracted for this post - Reason: Flaming

[Gandrake]

He wasn't shot because they got the wrong address, he was shot because he was committing felony threat with a weapon by answering his stupid fucking door by pointing his fucking gun at people completely illegally like the stupid idiot fucking retarded drug addict piece of shit that he was.

Where, anywhere, does this article state that this person even used drugs? Are you a wizard?

But I really can't help but think that this would not have even happened if they didn't knock on the wrong door or even identified themselves as officers. Should the guy have been greeting someone with a gun in their face? probably not.

[Azurenys]

---------- Post added 2012-07-18 at 09:51 AM ----------

You can't be "threatened" by a knock at your door. If you feel threatened, call the police. You don't get to answer the door and point a firearm at whomever is there. This is illegal for a VERY FUCKING OBVIOUS REASON YOU IDIOT PIECE OF SHIT.

The variety of scenarios you painted are stupid as fuck and not applicable. If this guy wasn't a criminal the only real scenario that would occur is the same one that occurs most of the time - the non-criminal answers the door unarmed, police quickly realize he is not a suspect, and proceed to question him on the potential whereabouts of the suspect since his vehicle is parked in front of this residents home. They then continue their search.

You don't get to answer your door by pointing a fucking gun at anyone that knocks on it in an apartment complex.

When exactly would he call the police? Before or after the armed stranger men break down his door and threaten his life? He should've hidden under his bed and whisper at 991, surely, this what you would do. It's not illegal, he has every right to defend his life and property. He is on the grounds of his property. Go read your laws before using "illegal" again, dimwit.

There is no need to be a criminal to own a gun (legally) and be afraid of armed men at your door at 1:30. Unless you're the internet hero karrmer who is strong and isn't afraid of anything. Any normal, legally armed person, caring for their safety would've done the same.

How stupid can you be? Thought there's a limit somewhere, since you've lived long enough to learn to write and access a computer. I guess I was wrong.

[wdmshmo]

There's a lot of nonsense here.

If a man opens a door with a gun, AND directly points this gun at who ever is answering the door. It doesn't matter if you are police or not, if you can defend yourself.. Do it. You were just threatened by a deadly weapon and should respond as though this person is about to kill you.

Open the door. Point a gun directly into my chest.

I'm sorry, I am not going to take the time to think about anything here. I don't look at your face, I will only respond how I've been trained. Deadly weapon = respond with deadly force.


People watch too many movies, no one is going to instantly appear behind the gunman with a pistol, and pull back the hammer saying something like "Drop it!"

No way this policeman is going to lunge forward and try to disarm the man.

All this policeman will do, is flick his wrist and squeeze his trigger until it is empty.

---------- Post added 2012-07-18 at 10:07 AM ----------

Where, anywhere, does this article state that this person even used drugs? Are you a wizard?

But I really can't help but think that this would not have even happened if they didn't knock on the wrong door or even identified themselves as officers. Should the guy have been greeting someone with a gun in their face? probably not.

Another article yields more information!

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...-knocki/nPw84/

Inside Scott's apartment, deputies say they found marijuana, but Scott's friend said people who knew Scott resent the Sheriff's Office's focus on the pot.

[Azurenys]

wdmshmo and you've seen too many movies where the police officer is some dutiful honorable person with no flaws, making zero mistakes.

If they counted on their training they should've presented who they were while knocking at a stranger door at 1:30 in the morning.
They didn't.

Death followed.

It's their own doing.

[Niteynite]

Pointing a gun at somebody is by its very nature considered assault in many parts of the U.S. I realize there is the added factor of protecting yourself against the unknown, but when you answer your front door with a gun pointing at whoever is knocking, you've established yourself as a deadly threat to whoever is knocking, whether it be the cops or your dealer.

I should also point out, there are many ways to protect yourself during an unannounced door knock after midnight. You can have a gun in your hand while holding it behind the open door, or tucked in the back of your pants, or take a peek outside to see if it might be the cops. By brandishing a gun at first sight, you are now the hostile party.

If you defend having the right to open the door with a gun pointing at whoever is knocking, then you aren't a defender of gun rights, you just have a gun fetish.

[apepi]

The cops should have never been there in the first place. They decide to go to the door that is closest to the vehicle of a suspected murder?At the dusk of night? After one hour after the murder happened without even getting the facts right? This smells of the Murphy's law.

I almost doubt that Scott had his gun pointed at the officers. It seems like he opened the door and they saw the gun so one of them shot at him(4 times I might add). I do not think he had the time to point it at them. If he did he would had know that they were officers(given somewhat good lighting), I believe if the officers did have the guns already drawn. If not the situation would have been easy adverted.

I own a gun(to hunt with), and even had people banging around my door. If someone comes wailing on my door and wakes me up, I am opening the door with my gun. Though most of the times I don't even open the door because the person tells me who they are before I even open it so I really don't even need it then. But this guy did not get that option, they decide not to tell them who it is. Even if the do it for "tactical advantage" it is not a good idea that they wore their uniforms which would have given the suspect time to flee anyways.

And I am sorry, you can not just say this a random occurrence, someone DIED because of this. An innocent life who just tried to protect themselves, who will never be able to open another door again. Something must be done, whether a change in the law or even investigated and maybe even put on trial.

If I go knock on someones door, and they bring a gun with them and I have a gun and shoot them does it make it right? Just because they are officers they should not be able to do this.

All though I assume things this is the most logical approach(to me).

[Waniou]

There is no need to be a criminal to own a gun (legally) and be afraid of armed men at your door at 1:30. Unless you're the internet hero karrmer who is strong and isn't afraid of anything. Any normal, legally armed person, caring for their safety would've done the same.

If he could see they were armed, he could see they were cops. They were in uniform.

[Azurenys]

Pointing a gun at somebody is by its very nature considered assault in many parts of the U.S. I realize there is the added factor of protecting yourself against the unknown, but when you answer your front door with a gun pointing at whoever is knocking, you've established yourself as a deadly threat to whoever is knocking, whether it be the cops or your dealer.

I should also point out, there are many ways to protect yourself during an unannounced door knock after midnight. You can have a gun in your hand while holding it behind the open door, or tucked in the back of your pants, or take a peek outside to see if it might be the cops. By brandishing a gun at first sight, you are now the hostile party.

If you defend having the right to open the door with a gun pointing at whoever is knocking, then you aren't a defender of gun rights, you just have a gun fetish.

As I said earlier, he probably DID peek (if it was possible) at who was at his door. The most possible case is he saw bunch of armed men in dark clothes. What would you do at such a sight?

People are scared. People are very afraid of losing their life. In a moment of panic you wouldn't think reasonably since your life is threatened at that very moment by an unknown bunch of people. He followed his instinct. He wouldn't do the same if he had heard "POLICE" yelled at him while they were knocking.

If he could see they were armed, he could see they were cops. They were in uniform.

Black uniform with only a badge that is light reflective. In the most possibly - dark corridor of an apartment building at 1:30. Yeah, his first thought would be "It's the cops". Sure.

[Deleted]

Seriously? Why would he have opened the door pointing a gun outisde? He probably didn't and the police officers shot him for seeing a gun and are now covering their own asses by lying.

[Christan]

You don't open your door with a firearm pointed at people, especially if you're scared of them.

that actually, is exactly why you open your door, in middle of the night, with a gun drawn.
not to SHOOT it, but for scare tactics and so you can get a description to give to the cops.

call the cops in either scenario "hey someone was at my door banging it at 1am, uhh...description...sorry can't help you there"
or
"some guy who looks like a crack head was pounding on my door, he had a red jersey, redsocks baseball cap, a rose tatoo on his upper arm, and a scare on his upper like on the left side"

which call to the cops is more likely to result in an arrest?
you get a burglar off the streets you are doing a service to the next family a neighborhood down that he would of robbed.
you open the door with a gun drawn for a variety of reasons, to USE it, as a last resort in case they have a weapon pointed at you.

pointing a gun is the same as using it?
i guess holding a jug of bleach is the same as chugging it, or any sharp instrument being pointed at someone is the same as murder....though surgeons would definitely disagree,
owning a gun is a life saving precaution, not a "i'm going to murder the first person that does <blank> to me"

especially at night, i respect him opening his door with a weapon drawn.
i really can't see how people are saying this guy was in the wrong, and the cops were in the right...
this guy was definitely in the right, the cops (if they are telling the truth) are also in the right however....

this is just a terrible situation.

[Azurenys]

Seriously? Why would he have opened the door pointing a gun outisde? He probably didn't and the police officers shot him for seeing a gun and are now covering their own asses by lying.

This, exactly. Many "police defenders" in this thread keep repeating he was pointing the gun, even someone dared to mention "gun at their chest" like he was effing there. Get real people.

[Deleted]

This, exactly. Many "police defenders" in this thread keep repeating he was pointing the gun, even someone dared to mention "gun at their chest" like he was effing there. Get real people.

It was in the article. And before the argument that the cops made it up after comes back up, think about the fact that if they were going to make something up they would have said that they announced themselves. That would totally clear them of all issues.

[Azurenys]

It was in the article. And before the argument that the cops made it up after comes back up, think about the fact that if they were going to make something up they would have said that they announced themselves. That would totally clear them of all issues.

There are neighbors who could later testify (if called in for a trial witness) that they heard no announcement of the police. But neighbors cannot possibly testify if the person had pointed the gun at them or was just holding it.

Go to any documentary with real life footage of police operations. The moment they see a gun ANYWHERE they yell "GUN" and begin to shoot. That's their flaw.