Mists of Pandaria Arms Warrior Guide

[Scummer]

How much rage do you feel we'll need to be at before using HS or Cleave?

[Jalopy]

In regards to the earlier testing of SW/DR/BS, is SW still looking strong as it was then? Arms (at least for me) seems to have a fair amount of gaps in the rotation, when MS/CS are on cooldown, OP hasn't proc'd, I don't have the rage for Slam. SW might be worth calling the go-to talent on non-burst fights, since the smaller cooldown lets us fill more GCDs.

Unless I'm doing something terribly wrong and these GCD gaps are my fault.

[Deleted]

In regards to the earlier testing of SW/DR/BS, is SW still looking strong as it was then? Arms (at least for me) seems to have a fair amount of gaps in the rotation, when MS/CS are on cooldown, OP hasn't proc'd, I don't have the rage for Slam. SW might be worth calling the go-to talent on non-burst fights, since the smaller cooldown lets us fill more GCDs.

Unless I'm doing something terribly wrong and these GCD gaps are my fault.

I'm finding myself to have the same problem atm, with nothing to fill the GCD gap if OP doesnt proc. Using SW could be a good idea to fill these gaps, but I'm not keen on the idea.

WTB Slam which requires much less rage than it already does >.>

[voidillusion]

I'm finding myself to have the same problem atm, with nothing to fill the GCD gap if OP doesnt proc. Using SW could be a good idea to fill these gaps, but I'm not keen on the idea.

WTB Slam which requires much less rage than it already does >.>

I've actually been playing around with SW to test and it doesnt fall back that much from DR if it doesnt crit 1 single time over a minute. It only takes 1 crit for it to deal more dmg with my gear. SW hits for around 21-22k, DR goes for 75k +-.

[Jalopy]

Wouldn't it be worth prioritizing OP over MS until OP stops proc'ing off itself?

[Deleted]

About time to update this. If you're calling dibs on posting a guide so early you should commit yourself to constant updating or let someone else make the guide or alternatively take over. I'm sure you're busy with something else, but maintenance is important.

[Jaceo]

About time to update this. If you're calling dibs on posting a guide so early you should commit yourself to constant updating or let someone else make the guide or alternatively take over. I'm sure you're busy with something else, but maintenance is important.

I was working on an Arms guide until this one was posted. I put mine on hold as I thought this would be updated further to be more polished. Might finish mine off and post it up to see what you guys think. Its more in depth and covers additional points including gear lists, raiding tips etc. Rustynip is working on a nice Fury guide so it would be good to have something for the Arms guys.

[Sinnermighty]

I'll contact Seramore to see if he wants to update this. If not, if you need any help Jaceo just PM me and I'll try to help ya when I'm free.

[Jaceo]

I'll contact Seramore to see if he wants to update this. If not, if you need any help Jaceo just PM me and I'll try to help ya when I'm free.

Awesome! It’s not far off being done and I will post it if Seramore doesn’t seem keen to update further. If you have the time to comment and add your expertise once I post it up that would be great. Also you and Rigg should stream your beta heroic testing for us Aussies who don’t get to raid at the testing times QQ

[Deleted]

There still a guide in the works?

[Deleted]

Great guide. However, what's the reasoning behind: 'If you get a Taste for Blood proc, wait to use Overpower after a Moral Strike to attempt to stack your buff even further.'?

Wouldn't it be worth prioritizing OP over MS until OP stops proc'ing off itself?

That's my thinking as well.

[Sinnermighty]

Pretty sure this was written back when the Overpower that came from Mortal Strike gave a TfB stack as well (and affected Slam instead of HS). And no, you don't want to delay MS for an OP unless you are very near rage cap and cant Slam it off.

[Deleted]

Pretty sure this was written back when the Overpower that came from Mortal Strike gave a TfB stack as well (and affected Slam instead of HS). And no, you don't want to delay MS for an OP unless you are very near rage cap and cant Slam it off.

You don't give a reason why. Why would you possibly want to delay getting stacks of TFB from an OP proc? Why use MS when you have an OP proc up because OP is already up...

[Deleted]

Still trying to decide what spec to go, assuming ill be 87-88 when I start questing
I'm thinking probably arms atm due to the lack of hit from the offhand weapon like in cata but im open to suggestions ^^

[Deleted]

I personally feel not everything has been fully said about the lvl 90 tier of talents. Avatar and Stormbolt have been discussed extensively, but I feel that the value of Bloodbath has been underrated thus far. Here's my line of thought, please correct me if / where I'm wrong:

So far, the discussion of this tier of talents has been based on the following post by Siguror, a while ago on the official forums:

______________________________________
The rage generation change breaks the level 90 talent tier. Now that Storm Bolt isn't displacing anything, it becomes a pure 400% weapon per 30 seconds.This means it does 800% weapon damage every minute. In order for Bloodbath to match that, you need to do 2666.7% weapon damage over 12 seconds, or ~333% weapon damage per GCD (assuming full GCDs). Considering that not all GCDs will be filled, and attacks do between 150%-200% weapon damage, Storm Bolt is some 50% better than Bloodbath.Storm Bolt does 2400% weapon damage every 3 minutes. With 60% Enrage uptime, Windfury Totem, and 12% Haste, Arms will generate 4 RPS from auto-attacks. Avatar will give 2 RPS for it's duration, which means 40 rage (i.e. 1.3 Slams). This means Avatar needs to do 2140% weapon damage from it's bonus damage modifier, or 10700% weapon damage over 20 seconds. Assuming 7 auto-attacks and 14 special attacks, that's an average of ~714.29% weapon damage per GCD to match Storm Bolt.

_______________________________________

According to the post above, Stormbolt would be considered the top choice of this tier. It is however on the general cooldown, which means it isnt the flat 400% weapondamage per 30 seconds that it is made out to be, the loss of the GCD will become an issue especially in higher gear levels, where the amount of empty gcd's in the rotation will diminish. Still, the rest of the post makes a strong point about the potential power of Stormbolt.

Which brings us to the other two.

Avatar: 20% increase in damage, 30% increase to rage generation (especially valuable during the execute phase, where the added rage wont be converted into extra slams or heroic strikes, but into additional executes), 20 sec duration, 3 minute cooldown.
Adventage: Lines up nicely with the cooldowns of Skull Banner and Execute (considering 4p T14, reduces CD of Execute to 3 min).
Longer duration in execute phase compared to Bloodbath (assuming the phase is longer then 12 seconds).
Disadventage: due to the long cooldown on Avatar, you'll often have to hold back on usage, in order to have it available for the execute phase, where it is absolutely mandatory. There are many fights, at least in the current tier, that last between 3 and 6 minutes. This reduces the uptime of Avatar in practical situations.

Bloodbath: 30% extra damage flat-out on specials. Given that auto-attacks are 10-15% of our damage, it cannot be considered a full 30% dmg boost, in practice it'll be closer to a 25-27% damage boost. Duration: 12 seconds. Cooldown: 1 minute.
Adventage: Due to its relatively short cooldown, it can pretty much be used on cooldown without much consideration for not having it available during our main burst of damage, the execute phase. Practical uptime will be very high.
Duration (12 sec) is identical to Recklessness duration (12 sec). Avatar would favor glyphing Execute for better synergy.
Very high synergy with the glove tinker for Engineers (Synapse Springs, 1 min cooldown, 10 sec duration, 1920 strength increase). Historically on-use trinkets havent often been prefered, proc-based trinkets have often been the more powerfull choice. When the warrior has Engineering, this would boost Bloodbath considerably more then it would boost Avatar or Stormbolt.
Very high synergy with Dragon Roar, effectively boosting its damage by 30% (where Avatar would effectively boost it by 20 / 3 = 6.66%).
The uptime of Colossus Smash would be higher, percentually, in a bloodbath opposed to an Avatar. Both are pretty much guarenteed one full Colossus Smash in their duration, with a chance of proccing a second.

Per 3 minute cycle (the cd of Avatar) it would have a 36 second uptime, opposed to the 20 seconds of Avatar. It does 25-27% more damage, opposed to 20% of Avatar. Does the added rage generation of Avatar, keeping all the above factors of practical uptime and extra rage for executes, still make Avatar the superior choice?

Offcourse all the above is still easily countered by 'depends on the fight', which is 100% correct. Still, I think the discussion is an interresting one.

Edit: added synergies for both abilities.

[Wazooty]

You don't give a reason why. Why would you possibly want to delay getting stacks of TFB from an OP proc? Why use MS when you have an OP proc up because OP is already up...

Bumping because there are plenty of details for arms to discuss that don't have a definitive answer, such as quoted.

I find that prioritizing MS>OP procs often leads to getting at or near rage cap while OP is still available to try and stack more, which can certainly lead to a weaker heroic strike than if you just waited on the MS.

There's also the matter of rage capping. Has anyone considered a scenario where you prioritize slam to avoid rage capping, while letting TFB get to as many stacks as possible (up to 5, duh) before the timer runs out?

[Kaljurei]

It doesn't matter in the end how many TFB stacks you're going to dump on Heroic Strike. The overall damage is always the same assuming that you used the Heroic Strikes under the same set of buffs/debuffs, i.e trinket procs, Enrage, CS window etc.

MS does more damage than OP, provides Enrage, and another 10 Rage, therefore it's priority is always above OP.

If you're going to rage cap because of the next MS, and you don't have a spare GCD available, use Heroic Strike regardless of how many stacks of TFB you have. Preventing Rage capping is of much more importance than to stack TFB further, because rage lost after capping can never be recovered, whereas TFB stacks can always be gained and used on Heroic Strikes.

There is no reason to prioritize Slam to avoid Rage capping, simply because damage from an OP+HS will always be greater than Slam, regardless of TFB stacks. The only time you will use Slam is when you don't have MS/CS/OP up. Period.

I don't know why you guys are worrying over TFB so much. There's less importance in worrying about how many more stacks you can achieve, it is in fact of more importance whether you can use those stacks inside a CS window or not.

[Deleted]

When to use sweeping strikes ?
Obviously when there are 2 opponents, the more important question is when during our rotation do we turn it on ?

[Deleted]

When to use sweeping strikes ?
Obviously when there are 2 opponents, the more important question is when during our rotation do we turn it on ?

It's off the global cooldown, so as soon as it's available.

[Somewowguy]

I just dont get why so many warriors are having issues figuring out what to do with MS/OP. You dont need reasons, you dont need explanations, MS > OP. Always. Almost at rage cap? Heroic strike. Dont have any stacks/low stacks of TfB? WHO CARES.

Its like people are obsessed to the point of wasting rage to get stacks high for no reason what so ever.

There needs to be a sticky at the top of this page thats says ARMS: MS > OP, the question is asked in almost every rotation/help thread.