[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[Promdates]

"Omg my night elf paladin got nerfed..."
Tbh is there any legitimate reason to use anything over a dwarf tank if you're alliance ? (Provided you can stand their look)

Human for POSSIBLE weapon racial, not to mention the 2m "fear ward" racial and the 10% rep racial.

[nightfalls]

Human for POSSIBLE weapon racial, not to mention the 2m "fear ward" racial and the 10% rep racial.

A bit more than just a "fear ward" (I'd say right now it is one of the better alliance tank races, though if you can some tanks also go pandaren).

And yeah I guess it doesn't change night elf, shows how much I followed the race since Cataclysm.

[Gorfion]

What does the missed attacks even mean, since it's not dodged or parried attacks? Is it mobs that are significantly lower level than you and miss? Maybe I'm missing something obvious here.

[Sunnydee]

Granted that SS was very strong. and next tier most ppl will have 100% uptime on Sotr.. im guessing they nerfed it due to that but didnt think about magical dmg taken..

[Xs]

What does the missed attacks even mean, since it's not dodged or parried attacks? Is it mobs that are significantly lower level than you and miss? Maybe I'm missing something obvious here.

Theres always a chance for mobs to miss you because they don't have capped hit, thats what its effecting by the looks of it.

[Deleted]

Yes, 5% miss chance from boss hits has been in game for as long as I can remember

[xebtria]

I understand the aoe vengeance nerf (just wondering, is the double swipe from horridon considered aoe or "standing in fire"? because I used this to prevent my SS from dropping too low on that fight).
I understand the slight attackpower nerf from vengeance itself - although I don't understand it combined with the 50%/30% (25/10 men) cap for it.
I understand the SS nerf, but I don't understand the 30%.
I really don't understand the nerf for more mobs. honestly, a mob makes 100k dmg, we get a 20k absorb shield. now when I tank a second mob, that does also 100k dmg, I get 40k absorb shield. with the third mob, I get 60k and so on (just made up numbers to illustrate this). now with the change, every mob does 5% less vengeance, so after the second mob, I have 39k, after the third I have 58k. if this works only slightly this way, this just makes one thing happen.... "PULL AS LESS MOBS AS REMOTELY POSSIBLE".

combining all together:
- attackpower from vengeance -0.3%
- vengeance capped at 30/50%
- no vengeance anymore from random aoe shit you are not supposed to stand in (but some did so they can top world of logs)
- successive less vengeance from tanking more mobs

this leads to an quite lower overall vengeance level to begin with.

- and then a flat 30% nerf to SS on top of that.


I'm no guru in math, but I think that generally we can expect our SS to be roughly 40% lower than it is now.


why?
paladins are not THAT strong that justifies a nerf of roughly 40% from our sacred shield. at least I don't think so. not to mention that our less AP also results in less self heal.

[Deleted]

Paladins are not that strong ?
Show me another class than can go no reset solo on horridon then xD

Yes Paladins are very strong. and those nerfs are justified. If too strong, they'll get tuned to be more balanced. That's why it's a PTR, not live hotfix

[Promdates]

Every class can, its just having a paladin tank over another means not having a paladin elsewhere in the raid. I solo tanked horridon on my monk and had a paladin bop me during the encounter. Any fight like horridon qon and durumu can be done with any other tank, as long as one person in the raid is a paladin.

[Deleted]

Paladins are not that strong ?
Show me another class than can go no reset solo on horridon then xD

Yes Paladins are very strong. and those nerfs are justified. If too strong, they'll get tuned to be more balanced. That's why it's a PTR, not live hotfix

Niche is niche.

Druids and monks can solo tank council without getting stunned (without outside help)
Monks can kite better than every other tank in game, bats yo.
Monks can solo tank lei-shen without even bothering about using CDs for Decapitate.
Monks can tank ra-den without giving 2 shits about timing their mitigation

etc etc, each tank class got a niche, paladins niche is to reduce big physical damage nukes such as horridons.

Paladins are strong, but they are not more powerful than every other tank class in every aspect, and imo monks win out on paladins overall.

Sounds like your opinion is that we should just remove 4 tank classes and only have 1.

[xebtria]

Paladins are not that strong ?
Show me another class than can go no reset solo on horridon then xD

Yes Paladins are very strong. and those nerfs are justified. If too strong, they'll get tuned to be more balanced. That's why it's a PTR, not live hotfix

exactly. because vengeance and sacred shield was the combination that made this possible... I tell you something: NO IT WASN'T. it is bubble and hop removing boss ability debuffs that force a tank switch and certainly were not intended to be able to be removed. thats the goddamn problem and broken ability. so fix them, not break something else. paladins are strong, no doubt, but not that SS-needs-a-30plus-percent-nerf-strong.

oh and srsly, get the fuck off my lawn with the argument "its a ptr not a live hotfix". when is the time to complain if not now?! if no one complains during ptr, it eventually goes live that way. then it is too late. if may also go live IF there were complaints, but at least we could say then "we tried". not complaining about nerfs during PTR is like standing naked on the beach of the Normandy during D-Day in 1944 and have painted "shoot me already" all over your body.

[trystero]

I also think that monks are better than paladins, overall. Just few people play them as they're a bit more complicated than any other tanking class. And as it's an AM-heavy class, those that play it poorly...well...it's obvious.

[Deleted]

I also think that monks are better than paladins, overall. Just few people play them as they're a bit more complicated than any other tanking class. And as it's an AM-heavy class, those that play it poorly...well...it's obvious.

I honestly find nothing complicated with playing monk. Fairly simple rotation, very simple AM and not so many cooldowns so few buttons to keep track off.

[Promdates]

Just few people play them

The reasoning is because people had to level them from 1-90, not 85-90. Some of us used Recruit-a-friend to make it quicker, but even blizz has said that monks are the lowest played class, mostly because of the leveling thing.

[Deleted]

The reasoning is because people had to level them from 1-90, not 85-90. Some of us used Recruit-a-friend to make it quicker, but even blizz has said that monks are the lowest played class, mostly because of the leveling thing.

To add to this, cataclysm was pretty much the expansion of alts, everyone and their mother had multiple level 85s, so when you plan to level up a new 90, you are likely to take one of your 85's rather than making a new one.

I still got a ton of 85s not leveled up yet.

[Deleted]

@promdate : I meant without any reset, like finishing the boss @25stacks and laugh at its corpse, but yeah, agreed otherwise, logically.

@FF : no, I didn't mean that we should only have 1 tank class, and agree that monk are superb on this tier, and generally speaking, but a bit lackluster in terms of rotation. It's just that I don't consider being able to shut down big physical attacks easily a niche. And because we have so many strong other tools, magical dmg'nshit mean merely squat (unglyphed DP, Hopur, SS...). So imo, paladin are not only invincible in said "niche" (physical), but has some OP tools like SS (thus the nerf) and SoI (indirectly nerfed by vengeance).


In fact, I loved blood DK since ICC, tanked with it all the way through cata because of its hipster AM, and wished they add some tweaks to make it "new" again. I rerolled monk only recently (because lvling is a hassle) but I already see on various streams how strong it can be. Only tanks I dislike are rage user (druid/war) because I'm bored while playing them. But's that's some personnal thing, I'm sure plenty of people find them ultracool and dynamic to play to each their own.

I like all tank classes, it's just that having a paladin tank rather than any other one (10man speaking here, careful guys) is way smoother on every fight.

Woow, hope I didn't bore you with my chit-chat, stick with the way of the paladin guys and protect our world from the shadows
cya Lightbringers

[celinamuna]

I like all tank classes, it's just that having a paladin tank rather than any other one (10man speaking here, careful guys) is way smoother on every fight.

Woow, hope I didn't bore you with my chit-chat, stick with the way of the paladin guys and protect our world from the shadows
cya Lightbringers

I would argue that monks are equally smooth and equally unkillable (if not more)

[Promdates]

@promdate : I meant without any reset, like finishing the boss @25stacks and laugh at its corpse, but yeah, agreed otherwise, logically.

I could see that for a 10m guild, since the 10H triple puncture is the dame damage range as 25N. Also, on 25H you end up around 17-20 stacks at the 2nd gate. So that would mean I'd have to end the fight with 45-50 stacks.

[Deleted]

I ended up with like 20-25 stacks of TP on 10H once since our "genius" holy paladin missclicked lay on hands on me.

I did not want to push my luck though, but rather sure you can survive in 10H atleast until war god without clearing.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I usually get 8 per gate. 10-15 is probably the most you'll realistically be able to take in the final phase with Horridon enraged on 25H.