[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[Deleted]

Given I was kinda tired when I wrote what I wrote. But was not that exactly what I said? I wait, I see that I said switch stamina to 0.8 to gem for stamina. Yeah you are completely correct. However your values will also gem for haste since haste gems are 320 stats instead of 240.
You need to switch stamina to 1 and haste to 0.74

I am not used to using askmrrobot and similar :S Never use those things for my gear on my main
Also why would it favor parry over dodge if dodge is at 0.5 and parry is at 0.49?

I meant to say dodge over parry, which is wrong. I guess I was tired too, I had just woken up x_x.

And about the stamina too, you're right with that. I completely forgot pure stamina gems are 240 stamina.
So I guess after a few tries we've got the numbers right, hahah. Anyway, I don't use Askmrrobot either, I don't really like it, makes some really odd calculations.

[Deleted]

Also, wanted to know what you think about the dragonling trinket

oh my god, i must say it is one of my favorite item...tried to swap it with mastery one(from Elegon i think), switched back in 2 days...There is no other trinket offering free 1800stats...Runing now with Lay Shin's orders+dragon, Hit cap/ expertize hardcap/ 36.91% haste(raid baffs)/ 484ilvl(271kdps/54khps my record so far). I just love protadins at the moment.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

oh my god, i must say it is one of my favorite item...tried to swap it with mastery one(from Elegon i think), switched back in 2 days...There is no other trinket offering free 1800stats...Runing now with Lay Shin's orders+dragon, Hit cap/ expertize hardcap/ 36.91% haste(raid baffs)/ 484ilvl(271kdps/54khps my record so far). I just love protadins at the moment.

Those 1800 stats are not free.

Where have you got 16000 haste rating from? (remember, the 10% attack speed aura does not grant Haste, only auto-attack frequency) - there are no "melee haste" raid buffs. Even 11000 haste rating (27% melee haste * 425 rating) is quite a lot, could you link your Armory? I would be interested to see where you get that much haste from while remaining hit and expertise capped.

[Deleted]

I am not able to link yet, need more posts, but this is my char: "зосмбезбафа, server Галакронд(russian server)". I think i logged out in retri yesterday...please wait untill tomorrow, would love some constructive critique It is not 16000haste, it is around 10000(though this is what it shows in character page, 36.91%). SS refresh at around 4.2-4.3sec.

I agree that it is not free stats but still, 1800 stats(stats that i need, that i chose) it is preaty nice.

[Deleted]

Those 1800 stats are not free.

Where have you got 16000 haste rating from? (remember, the 10% attack speed aura does not grant Haste, only auto-attack frequency) - there are no "melee haste" raid buffs. Even 11000 haste rating (27% melee haste * 425 rating) is quite a lot, could you link your Armory? I would be interested to see where you get that much haste from while remaining hit and expertise capped.

I really do not think it is alot. It all depends on your gearing strategy. My loot luck has just been shit. I am currently sitting at 31.76% with elixir.
Given my loot luck has been horrible and I am using quite a few intellect items.

Edit: Just optimized my gear a bit with a new gear piece so landed on 32.64% haste now with elixir.

[Kanadei]

Given my loot luck has been horrible and I am using quite a few intellect items.

... wait wtf?

[Deleted]

... wait wtf?

Should not require to much thinking to realise a 502 (plate) intellect item is better than a 463 strength item simply because increaed armor+stamina ( and secondary stats + possible sockets )
In some cases a 489 int can be better than a 476 strength, and in the same thinking, a 502 int can be better than a 489 strength, depending on the items ofc.

Most people are to single minded.

If the "tank" items simply do not drop, do the best of the situation

Though with quite a few, I actually meant 2 int items, + 1 agility item.
Still waiting for those strength drops.

[Kanadei]

Should not require to much thinking to realise a 502 (plate) intellect item is better than a 463 strength item simply because increaed armor+stamina ( and secondary stats + possible sockets )

It's less that I discounted that as a possibility, more that I found it incredibly hard to believe someone was so accursed by the gods of RNG that they would be forced to make that comparison in the first place.

Like, no rep, no craftables, no nothing ?! If your guild is getting 502s dont they have some 496 patterns?!

Don't answer that, I trust you to find your own upgrades. Just like wow.

Then again, this is coming from someone who has had 12+ LFR epics so far (on one character) and hasn't run any of the LFRs yet this week. I guess my polar opposite had to exist somewhere.

... There can be only one.

[Deleted]

Well, pattens and rep only cover so many pieces.
For example, I am using the Gara'jal intellect shield. The increased armor and stamina over a 463 shield is just to great to pass up.
( damn you spirit kings give me my shield ).
I would even prefer 489 gara'jal shield over 476 sk shield. It is just insane amounts of stamina and armor.
The SK shield dropped once for us, given that I already had the gara'jal shield by then, I passed it to our warrior tank as he had 463 shield. Have not dropped since.

[Kanadei]

Yeah lack of weapons especially has been pretty cut-throat this expansion.

Makes me miss playing a caster. No stat stick? No worries.

[Deleted]

Well, paladins scale horribly with one-hands. Shields is a different matter

Though to get back to int items quickly.

The second thing I am using is the 502 healer boots from Stone Guards. Lets compare them to say, the boots you are using.


Both boots yellow socket

476 boots:

+674 strength
+328 dodge ( with socket )
+470 mastery
+178 stat of choice reforged from dodge.

502 boots

+320 armor
+310 stamina
+690 haste ( with socket bonus )
+328 crit ( while bad, not useless )
+218 stat of choice from reforged crit. ( so that is 40 more than the strength boots )
+881 intellect ( not completely useless, since it still gives almost 2% spell crit. While not a huge upgrade, still a factor )

Personally, I prefer the second one there as I am haste stacking and I put very little value in dodge either way so, for me, I could almost simplify it to

674 strength, 470 mastery vs 512 haste, 320 armor, 310 stamina, 218 hit/expertise/mastery
( after reforging strength boots to haste )

For which to me, the int boots is a clear winner.
Ofc waiting for wind lord boots but hey, RNG.

[Kanadei]

Mmm true that. Although to be fair, I don't have access to 502s in my current progression and I run with a paladin healer so it would be pretty heavy RNG to end up with int items in the first place.

Anyway, fair point.

[Deleted]

Yeah, did not mean anything against you. Was more to explain my own choice in 502 vs sha boots.

[Deleted]

It's less that I discounted that as a possibility, more that I found it incredibly hard to believe someone was so accursed by the gods of RNG that they would be forced to make that comparison in the first place.

Like, no rep, no craftables, no nothing ?! If your guild is getting 502s dont they have some 496 patterns?!

Don't answer that, I trust you to find your own upgrades. Just like wow.

Then again, this is coming from someone who has had 12+ LFR epics so far (on one character) and hasn't run any of the LFRs yet this week. I guess my polar opposite had to exist somewhere.

... There can be only one.

Yeah... I feel him. I am really trying to find even the agility cloak or an intellect offhand to get even something. During the whole of Mists of Pandaria on my paladin, last night was the first piece of loot I got from a bonus roll. I am not joking. It was the Elegon trinket, too, which is really shit. Still running with the Elegon LFR mainhand...

[Deleted]

Quite happy with second roll chance(coins)...good idea. Back from Feng, main hand from Elegon, yesterday dropped ring from second boss in HoF. Good, good idea, RNG sucks though, agree.

[silverhatred]

Wouldn't stacking haste > stacking stamina for 10 man guilds. The hits, while big aren't as big as 25m guilds and your self healing and damage matter much more.

[Deleted]

Wouldn't stacking haste > stacking stamina for 10 man guilds. The hits, while big aren't as big as 25m guilds and your self healing and damage matter much more.

In most cases yes, but not in all cases. There is no such things for tanks as saying x is better than y.

Everything depends on your group, how good the dps is, how good the healers are. Which boss you are currently on.
What is your other tank and your own playstyle ofc.

Also alot depends on how good your gear is compared to the boss you are doing. If you are undergeared for an encounter it benefits stamina more.

Saying haste>stamina in 10 man is a simplification, just as saying stamina>other stat is in 25 man. While it may be true in most cases, it all boils down to different things in different groups. To many factors to say 1 is superior.

[MerinPally]

Pretty much. You get more haste than stamina for each gem so it comes down to whether you feel that the reason you need to be able to soak more damage is best solved by having more health and your healers can pick up the slack or are they working their tits off and you need to help more.

Looking at the rough stat values posted by Firefly on the previous page anyway, Haste is still better even going by those (unless my eyes are closed as I read them, or I'm being hideously stupid - both are equally plausible).

The whole point of the haste build is to be able to get as much as possible to keep your defenses up to a great extent and the reward for that is more damage and more self healing. On that basis, more is surely better over stamina as long as you can survive all the hits in the period when your buff is down, assuming they all are completely unmitigated by blocks, absorbs or negated by parry/dodge. Take that plus another hit or 2 but this time with the SHOTR buff up assuming same conditions and then you could never really need more health outside of some certain circumstances under rather specific boss encounters.

Having not properly raided 25mans since WOTLK and my only cata 25 man experiences being Firelands heroic pugs I ran, I would find it hard to comment but I would assume something similar but this time not bother with the hits after and just stick to maybe 2 or possibly 3 hits without the buff up, because that would have you dead or almost dead unless things aren't as brutal as I may be imagining and making it up in my head. When you have 6-7 healers like was the norm then chances are one is healing you (or someone else plus beacon) or you'll have some kind of HOT/Shield protecting a bit so can probably afford a bit less.

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 10:48 PM ----------

Sadface, beaten because I was ordering a takeaway

[Deleted]

Those stat values were not actual stat values. The thing with tanking is that it is not as easy to calculated "okay, 1 crit rating gives me 3 dps and 1 mastery rating gives me 4 dps. There Mastery has a value of 1 and crit a value of 0.75"

For tanking, you can make up different stat values depending on your own group setup. The stat values that I suggested was quite simple and not very well thought through. Their only purpose was to make Askmrrobot prioritise

Hit>exp>haste>stam>mastery
or
Hit>exp>stam>haste>mastery depending on your personal preference and then making askmrrobot to reforge and regem you to meet these demands. Of course if you another gearing strategy you would have to remake those stat prios to the get the results wanted. The relations of my stats in that stat prio did have no correlation to the actual values of the stats, just how to make mr robot help you optimise certain gearing strategies.

I believe that making correct stat weigths is near impossible as tanking is about finding out what works for your group, for your playstyle, for your gear, on the boss you are on, and finding a good balance. I do not think that we can calculate enough variables to make the assessment.

Basically what I said was to set stamina to 1 and haste to 0.8 or 0.74 depending if you want to gem for haste or stamina.
( putting haste on 0.8 when stamina is on 1 would make askmrrobot prefer haste gems over stamina gems whilst putting it on 0.74 would make it prefer stamina gems over haste gems. )

[MerinPally]

Ah ok, knew there would be a misunderstanding on my part. Whilst we can somewhat relate actual defensive values such as crit and haste, stamina is harder if not impossible to do so. Having never used AskMrRobot ever as it used to be so hideous for tanks (to the point where on this very forum I challenged someone alleging to be the creator of it with my calculator and paper, and won, even after some but not all of the "fixes"). Never had any need after that.

Thanks for the clarification.