[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[MerinPally]

Seeing as you're still gearing up and Mastery is going to be your 3rd or 4th best stat, and procs aren't that great for tanking, go for the Heroic Heart of Fire and the Heroic Iron Protector. You won't need the extra stamina that much.

[Deleted]

Rotation section doesn't have anything of HoW, do we use it at all?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

If AS and HW are on cooldown and you don't need to refresh SS unless there is an add near to your primary target, in which case use instead of HW.

[gutnbrg]

Seeing as you're still gearing up and Mastery is going to be your 3rd or 4th best stat, and procs aren't that great for tanking, go for the Heroic Heart of Fire and the Heroic Iron Protector. You won't need the extra stamina that much.

thx for the answer, I see u reforged and gemmed to alot of expertise. Should i be going for the same? Is it really important to get to the cap?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

thx for the answer, I see u reforged and gemmed to alot of expertise. Should i be going for the same? Is it really important to get to the cap?

You've got to get the 5100 expertise rating from somewhere

[MerinPally]

Rotation section doesn't have anything of HoW, do we use it at all?

As Butler said, it comes under the X section which will have the order (for single target) of:

Refresh SS if not up > Avengers > Holy Wrath > Hammer of Wrath > Consecrate

For AoE, swap HoW and Consecrate around. I'll make this clearer in the guide

thx for the answer, I see u reforged and gemmed to alot of expertise. Should i be going for the same? Is it really important to get to the cap?

Yeah it is, the stat priority is:

7.5% hit > 15% Expertise > Haste > Mastery

As written in the guide itself Reason being that the amount of benefit you get from Haste (and mastery) increases with the amount of hits you get on the boss. If you get the hit cap and expertise hardcap (rather than the soft 7.5% melee do, because they attack from behind not infront) then all your attacks will hit the boss no matter what unless there is some buff on the boss or debuff on you. This maximises the value of haste and mastery. This also means that you maximise the uptime of the SHOTR buff for your relevent haste level, and it also makes the gaining of the buff on demand when really needed a lot easier and less prone to fail.

You've gota get the expertise hardcap from somewhere as Butler says, and my gear being as bad as it is with not a ton of gem slots and little of it on the gear itself, means I have to reforge a crapton

[Deleted]

If you're concerned with having as high as possible SS uptime it should actually be:

Avenger's
SS if less than 5 seconds remaining
Holy Wrath
HoW
Consecration
L90 Talent
SS

And for AOE:

Avenger's
SS if less than 5 seconds remanining
Consecration
Holy Prism
Holy Wrath
Hammer of Wrath
Execution Sentence
SS

If you're less concerned with SS uptime and you want to push out a little bit more DPS you can just skip refreshing SS when it has less than 5 seconds, unless you need it up to survive a certain boss mechanic, and only cast it when you have no other buttons to push. Because SS scales with vengeance there are also situations where you can cast it while you have high vengeance and then only refresh it after it drops to maintain that higher absorb amount.

As written in the guide itself Reason being that the amount of benefit you get from Haste (and mastery) increases with the amount of hits you get on the boss. If you get the hit cap and expertise hardcap (rather than the soft 7.5% melee do, because they attack from behind not infront) then all your attacks will hit the boss no matter what unless there is some buff on the boss or debuff on you. This maximises the value of haste and mastery. This also means that you maximise the uptime of the SHOTR buff for your relevent haste level, and it also makes the gaining of the buff on demand when really needed a lot easier and less prone to fail.

Just to expand on this a little, the reason we value hit and expertise so highly is because it gives us more control. It reduces the chance of ever being in an unlucky situation where you might miss a few times and have no holy power (and in turn no ShotR) to zero. While those situations don't happen often, it's better to take a little extra damage over time than risk a wipe due to such a situation. The added bonus is that they're both excellent stats for DPS, like haste.

[silverhatred]

Which enchant is better for tanking after the river's song ppm change?

[Xothic]

Which enchant is better for tanking after the river's song ppm change?

It's been colossus for quite some time I believe.

10 man only however, not certain about 25 man.

[Deleted]

Which enchant is better for tanking after the river's song ppm change?

Colossus is the best.

[MerinPally]

As said by the other 2 (and in the guide itself if you went down to the enchants section) Colossus is definitely the best for 10man at the moment I don't know if that changes going into 25man.

[Deleted]

What is the rough ICD of Colossus? Just curious as to see whether it gets better with Haste...

[Xothic]

What is the rough ICD of Colossus? Just curious as to see whether it gets better with Haste...

From memory you can get 6PPM on Colossus after the buff.

[MerinPally]

From memory you can get 6PPM on Colossus after the buff.

This is correct, just to confirm.

[Deleted]

Control/mastery vs Control/haste.

Everyone and their parents (including fershly dinged paladintanks) are gemming haste like mad .I dont really like haste being a tankstat and such so I went control/mastery,but people keep telling I'M retarded.
I'm in a 10man hc guild doing hardmodes tho not at cuttingedge levels oubviously and tankdps is very very rarely a concern.

Should I still go haste or control mastery is just as viable? (even tho everyone -even the people writing the guides and suggesting that it is equally good- went for haste?)

[Deleted]

Is it viable? Yes
Is it as viable? In 99% of cases in 10 man, no.

[Deleted]

I dont really like haste being a tankstat and such so I went control/mastery,but people keep telling I'M retarded.

They would be right with that. In 10mans haste is way more valuable due to the dps alone, let alone the control you can have over your survivability when compared to mastery.

[Malthanis]

They would be right with that. In 10mans haste is way more valuable due to the dps alone, let alone the control you can have over your survivability when compared to mastery.

Well, they're not really right. It's come up enough that haste and mastery are relatively equal, with haste providing extra DPS. If his raid, by his own account, doesn't have trouble with DPS, then it doesn't really matter which stat build he chooses.

[Deleted]

Well, they're not really right. It's come up enough that haste and mastery are relatively equal, with haste providing extra DPS. If his raid, by his own account, doesn't have trouble with DPS, then it doesn't really matter which stat build he chooses.

Doesn't really matter doesn't mean optimal, and as far as I'm aware, the better you can do the... better.

There are only some very specific fights you'd want to favour mastery over haste for 10mans (primarily Sha of Fear), and overall haste is just stronger in all aspects of it. There is a good reason why pretty much everyone uses haste instead of mastery for 10mans (obviously of which some are people who just copy other paladins though).

[Deleted]

To say that mastery is viable is fine, but to say that it is equal to haste in 10 man environment is just straight up not seeing the facts in front of you. There are some specific fights and setups that may favor mastery, however in the vast majority of the cases haste will always come on top.

Also. "We have enough dps" is the most stupid argument ever. You can never have to much dps. More dps will make bosses easier. Does not matter if you are pulling 500k or 700k raid dps, if you can increase your dps by 30k, its still a big deal.

To be completely honest, I do not feel like "tanking" is that much of an issue. As a tank, I feel like the biggest challenge is to put out the dps numbers since the tanking does not really matter much. There are more fights where I thought "Shit, I need to do more dps" than "Shit, I need to tank better".

Only fight where I ever had to think about my tanking was Empress ( 6 adds ) and WoTE, and both of those was just a quick fix, just couldn't go completely mindless on them. Not like it were ever an issue.

Though, I have thought and practiced alot to increase my dps on

Stone Guards HC
Feng HC
Gara'Jal HC
Elegon N and HC
WoTE N and HC

Gara'lon
Windlord

Tsulong

These are all fights where I actually thought alot on how to maximise my dps since it was very much needed. So all in all, I really think that dps is the more "important" part of a tank duty this tier since the tanking, is not really that hard. Could probably gear for spirit and still tank solidly.