[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[Monolith of Mazes]

http://sacredduty.net/2013/01/24/pro...5-set-bonuses/


Nothing suprising really. Pretty much the same conclusion we all did when they announced the bonuses.

---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 09:18 PM ----------

Faith in ghostcrawler lost.

Paladin
- ...Even if you have a tanking set with no haste, there are haste buffs in the game. We wanted all the tanks to benefit somewhat from what were traditionally DPS stats, since part of the active mitigation design was to make tanks care more about hitting things with sword (and claws). It only gets to be a problem, as I said previously, if dodge and parry (which are going to be on some gear) are perceived as pointless... We also don't want to nerf haste for paladins, because it is fun, and for the most part working as intended. We don't have a solution yet that we're willing to share, but that's the intent...


Questions:

1. He says he want us to scale with haste buffs even in a tanking set without haste. Ehr, to bad the melee hast buff does not actually give melee haste, only weapon haste, so it does not even give us anything. If you want to buff the melee haste buff to give us melee haste, great! more haste for us!
Come to think of it, that could actually be a solution. Making the melee buff give melee haste, which would make us reach the 50% soft cap faster, so we would not want haste on every gear, just enough haste to reach the cap.

2. Dodge and parry - You made them useless by removing them from the combat table. Why did you do this again? Yes, so tanks would not have a boring stack to CTC cap playstyle. So by removing them from the block CTC table, aswell as the insane DR on dodge and parry, he actually made dodge and parry worthless. And yes, dodge and parry is worthless, no argument.

5. I do not see anything fixing this "issue" without completely reworking the entire dodge/parry system, inserting some passive that reduces our GCD and CDs on spells ( either passive or scaling with some other stat ), a complete rehaul off the damage output of protection paladins. This seems like a lot of work for nothing.


7. Can't he see how much they succeeded in prot paladins? I have never heard so many prot paladins actually enjoy tanking as currently. Why do they feel the need to break that because they are "competing with gear". That is up to every single raid group to decide who gets gear and not. Also, coins... 80% of my loot come from coins. I really just cant comprehend why they are trying to break something they have actually done good for once.

...but he is so clueless what he is talking about, it makes me sad he is calling the design shots on my class.

Don't be too hard on the guy!
1. Haste elixir, bloodlust, windsong, trinkets, prof. I don't think he was referring exclusively to the 8 core raid buffs.
2. They aren't useless, they provide a chance to not take damage. They aren't ideal, but they are far from useless.
5./7. In an earlier post on the same thread (i believe) he said that they might approach the issue by changing some of our abilities like SotR. Who knows, we'll have to wait and see before making conclusions. It's safe to say that the devs do understand how much prot paladins enjoy haste playstyle. He says it in his posts. "We dont want to nerf haste... it is fun... most part working as intended...". They are not "trying to break something", I think they just don't like how much traditional tank stats have been pushed to the side.

Also, GC is not the ultimate voice in class design. He's the spokesperson. I imagine that the decision to adjust prot paladins was one that was reached by multiple devs.

[Deleted]

I don't really understand his reasoning of "there's too much competition for haste plate". It has never been a problem for healers to compete with caster DPS for loot. Why not leave it up to each individual guild to decide who gets what? It's not like we'll pass up an item with dodge/parry/mastery on it, if it's an upgrade, just because it doesn't have haste.

As a 10-man raider, I really don't mind more people needing a specific type of loot, we already disenchant probably half the drops that we get. I suppose it's more of a problem for 25-man guilds.

2. They aren't useless, they provide a chance to not take damage. They aren't ideal, but they are far from useless.

From a control standpoint they are useless as they are random. We don't care about total damage taken because total damage taken is usually not the reason we die, it's spike damage. Both dodge and parry are far inferior to haste, mastery and stamina for those situations.

[Monolith of Mazes]

From a control standpoint they are useless as they are random. We don't care about total damage taken because total damage taken is usually not the reason we die, it's spike damage. Both dodge and parry are far inferior to haste, mastery and stamina for those situations.

I understand the control build idea, but it still goes a bit far to call them useless. It's TDR (oh no I said it don't crucify me :P). I totally agree about the "loot competition" thing though. That hardly seems like a valid point. We compete for hit/exp/mastery anyway. And, like you said, other classes compete for loot all the time.

[Deleted]

I didn't say dodge and parry is useless, I said they were worthless, big difference. They have no value in comparison to the other tanking stats. Simple as that. Problem with dodge and parry is, how effective are they?

When I recieve a dodge or parrry, the only thing that happens is that the hots on me and the incoming heals from the healers overheal. So while it reduce damage, the actual effect is that healers overheal instead.

[Nillo]

I just hope they figure out the problem lies in dodge/parry and that the only way to deal with it is to finally get rid of those stats for good. (and to compensate allow plate tanks to gain dodge from crit)

[MerinPally]

I just hope they figure out the problem lies in dodge/parry and that the only way to deal with it is to finally get rid of those stats for good. (and to compensate allow plate tanks to gain dodge from crit)

Or get rid of this silly 2 roll system and accept CTC, just tinker with other stats to make it less of a must and more of a choice. Don't know whether that's possible or not. The problem isn't with dodge and parry, its with how strong they are with a decent coefficient when CTC but how weak they are when smoothing is the only option.

---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 06:43 AM ----------

Also, that bar crawl was shit I was sober by the time I hit the club. Almost got in a fight cos some assholes were singing:

"<insert offensive song about Idi Amin here>"

And some people though it was us. Yeah, nice, a bunch of scrawny, bored, cold, looking white guys with a few girls looking in an equally sorry state were obviously singing a rousing tale about a dictator. Ended up coming home early but because of the snow or slush rather, none of the cabs would take us home so we had to walk for about an hour because the girl I was looking after was wearing lil open shoes with no tights so she could barely walk, no grip on shoes so slipping, and I was in the thinnest t shirt known to mankind. Surprised if I don't get hypothermia, she almost got fucking frostbite 2 random guys saw us and gave her some gloves thank god (Thank you Marcus and some guy from Bistro Live in Nottingham).

Not slept yet feeling so shit, gona go raid Greggs in about an hour and treat myself...

Hammer, Spirit, Sacrifice.

[Xs]

I just hope they figure out the problem lies in dodge/parry and that the only way to deal with it is to finally get rid of those stats for good. (and to compensate allow plate tanks to gain dodge from crit)

I'd love to see something like that, not likely to happen on such a massive scale mid way through the exp but we can always hope for Emerald dream or w/e is up next

[Deleted]

I can see him just nerfing Sanctity of Battles haste component and just buffing how well we scale with mitigation stats. Annoying, I know. But it's Ghostcrawler, he never listens to the community after the WOTLK disaster.

[MerinPally]

Holy shit tits apparently I went out last night I have no memory. I've woken up and my body is painted with what looks like nail varnish. Also allegedly, we began doing a workout session on the floor of the club and people were taking pics and asking names to tag it.

All I know is I'm still fucked now and I have an exam tomorrow, I can't walk in a straight line.

What an escapade.

[Deleted]

Holy shit tits apparently I went out last night I have no memory. I've woken up and my body is painted with what looks like nail varnish. Also allegedly, we began doing a workout session on the floor of the club and people were taking pics and asking names to tag it.

All I know is I'm still fucked now and I have an exam tomorrow, I can't walk in a straight line.

What an escapade.

Oh Merin... AA is where you belong. I love you and your drunkenness but you're going to die soon of liver failure.

HAND OF SACRIFICE AND SHIT LIKE THAT.

[MerinPally]

I remember doing Bar Golf (just pub golf in the student union bar cos its cheaper) and thats about it really. I have lots of naked pictures of my friend passed out though it seems. My mate claims he got carried out the club by bouncers and another woke up wearing his backpack with his books in it, wanting to go travelling.

Think I might stop for a bit I'm up to like 60 units this week (I still count the weeks as raiding weeks so starting wednesday). I'm going out tomorrow too, got my ticket and all.. might have to do a sober one.

My friend has a rather small penis.

[Deleted]

My friend has a rather small penis.

Some what disturbing. Thank you Merin.

[MerinPally]

Whichever absolute wanker painted my nipples with nail varnish, burn in hell. Having to pull it off and only being able to scrape it off with warm water in the shower was awful. I can't get the shit off my back, I'm having to get one of the girls to come over with nail varnish remover to wipe me down...

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Try with deodorant, contains various alcohols and other organic substances that are very good at removing that kind of thing.

[MerinPally]

Is cool I have a variety of young female friends, one of whom was kind enough to just use some pad thing and some of hers to clean me.

Pub Quiz time tonight.

[Deleted]

Perhaps a Drunken Pally sticky thread should be created to keep this thread even remotely on topic :P

[Deleted]

Perhaps a Drunken Pally sticky thread should be created to keep this thread even remotely on topic :P

+1

Malthanis, chop chop. MerinPally will end up peeing on this forum thread when he's drunk soon enough.

[Deleted]

Can anyone fellow that is using Holy Prism confirm to me that Holy Prism works on spell GCD and not melee GCD, the same as Lights Hammer and Execution Sentence?

I would myself but no access to WoW atm. Never actually tested it since I have never used Holy Prism.

[Deleted]

Can anyone fellow that is using Holy Prism confirm to me that Holy Prism works on spell GCD and not melee GCD, the same as Lights Hammer and Execution Sentence?

I would myself but no access to WoW atm. Never actually tested it since I have never used Holy Prism.

Pretty sure it's melee GCD, don't quote me on that though. Me no have access to WoW either, at work still.

[Deleted]

I use Holy Prism 99% of the time but I honestly can't remember. All the spells are now so baked in the back of my subconscious I no longer even think about what I'm doing when pressing them buttons. I'll check it out.

EDIT:

Tested it and yes, works the same way as the other lvl 90 talents in terms of GCD.