[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[Judas]

Thank you for the weapon advice, I know a simple question but any advice is good advice.
I've set my Pally up with the rotation in the OP but a little lost with HotR and SotR.
Do I use SotR once I have a stack of 3 Holy Power up and do I use HotR at the start of my rotation before Crusader Strike?
Also do we use any of the Hands, with our focus as a tank I'am thinking thier more of a Ret. Pally thing but again I'am still learning here.
I thought Devotion Aura would cover most of them.
And Might over Kings?
Thanks for any help given.

[Deleted]

Thank you for the weapon advice, I know a simple question but any advice is good advice.
I've set my Pally up with the rotation in the OP but a little lost with HotR and SotR.
Do I use SotR once I have a stack of 3 Holy Power up and do I use HotR at the start of my rotation before Crusader Strike?
Also do we use any of the Hands, with our focus as a tank I'am thinking thier more of a Ret. Pally thing but again I'am still learning here.
I thought Devotion Aura would cover most of them.
And Might over Kings?
Thanks for any help given.

Many people advocate using SotR at 5 HP so they are only ever 1 HP away from a finisher (personally I rarely do this myself but meh nvm me).
One of the great things of pally tanks is their raid utility so yes using all your hands/loh/abilities at your disposal helps tons. You should practise it. Anyhoo once you have the encounter mechanics sorted, the actual tanking bit is a kinda simple so looking for times when you can hop/hosacr/whateves keeps things a bit more challenging.

hotr is used to put the 30sec debuff on the boss unless someone else can do it for you for free just reapply before it falls off. Personally I apply hotr during my opener yes.

[Deleted]

Do I use SotR once I have a stack of 3 Holy Power up...

If you need the protection or threat, yes. Otherwise, it can be good to wait until you have 5 Holy Power. That way you have 2 Holy Power in the bank, so to speak, and can quickly do a double sotr in an emergency.

and do I use HotR at the start of my rotation before Crusader Strike?

If you are responsible for keeping up the weakened blows debuff, yes. [Something to track the debuff will be useful - you have to apply it about every 30 sec irrc. I've set up a weakaura for it]. Otherwise, just use CS on single target and HotR instead on multi-target.

Also do we use any of the Hands, with our focus as a tank I'am thinking thier more of a Ret. Pally thing but again I'am still learning here.
I thought Devotion Aura would cover most of them.

They can be useful, although they are rather situational and advanced tactics rather than rotational. Hand of freedom is good against the stone debuff from MSV trash. Hand of sacrifice can be useful on your co-tank, when you are off tanking. Hand of salvation can be useful after a taunt switch, to stop your vengeance ripping threat from the active tank. Hand (blessing?) of protection can be useful with some specific fight mechanics, e.g. on the target of an unseen strike?

[Deleted]

If you need the protection or threat, yes. Otherwise, it can be good to wait until you have 5 Holy Power. That way you have 2 Holy Power in the bank, so to speak, and can quickly do a double sotr in an emergency.



If you are responsible for keeping up the weakened blows debuff, yes. [Something to track the debuff will be useful - you have to apply it about every 30 sec irrc. I've set up a weakaura for it]. Otherwise, just use CS on single target and HotR instead on multi-target.



They can be useful, although they are rather situational and advanced tactics rather than rotational. Hand of freedom is good against the stone debuff from MSV trash. Hand of sacrifice can be useful on your co-tank, when you are off tanking. Hand of salvation can be useful after a taunt switch, to stop your vengeance ripping threat from the active tank. Hand (blessing?) of protection can be useful with some specific fight mechanics, e.g. on the target of an unseen strike?

Don't think hop prevents unseen strike damage (would make pallies a bit op on that fight tbh). does remove wind step however.

[Judas]

Thanks guys that helped a lot, simple question I guess Blessing of Might over Kings?
The Mastery buff seems good but I dont know how it compares to the extra strength from Kings as far as dps goes.
I also use TellmeWhen, great addon, what procs should I be tracking or stacks?

[Deleted]

Thanks guys that helped a lot, simple question I guess Blessing of Might over Kings?

Mastery for us is defensive - I don't think it gives us dps. I suspect on average, other party members might get more dps from kings than might. But I tend to use might as prot, as there's usually a druid or monk who can do kings. I still use pallypower to keep track of who in the raid/party has the blessing I'm responsible for.

[MerinPally]

Mastery being our second best stat (not including hit and exp), after Haste being top, puts Might far ahead of kings in terms of a defensive buff. Use Might for when you're in dungeons or raids as all dps classes get some kind of dps boost from it, and healing classes get a healing boost. Granted, it's not as much as a buff for dps as 5% strength or agi but it's something. Only use Kings if you have a Shaman in the group or some other source for the mastery buff, or if you're doing dailys because 5% strength helps you kill things faster.

[Deleted]

Thank you for the weapon advice, I know a simple question but any advice is good advice.
I've set my Pally up with the rotation in the OP but a little lost with HotR and SotR.
Do I use SotR once I have a stack of 3 Holy Power up and do I use HotR at the start of my rotation before Crusader Strike?
Also do we use any of the Hands, with our focus as a tank I'am thinking thier more of a Ret. Pally thing but again I'am still learning here.
I thought Devotion Aura would cover most of them.
And Might over Kings?
Thanks for any help given.

As with rawhammer, I usually dont bother with SotR during normal "tank and spank" phases, when nothing special is happening, I just use SotR on cooldown. Though of course make sure to have 3 HoPo for when needed. I.e. sha thrash, unbalancing strike, etc etc, you get the point.

Also if the boss is going into a frenzy phase or a phase that they will deal significantly more damage, like Will of the emperor, always bank up 5 HoPo before that happens.

HotR keeps the weakened blow debuff up if needed, cs deals more single target damage though. Single target boss fights are just using 1 hotr each 30 seconds and cs the other time.

I use hand of salvation, freedom, sacrifice and protection quite a lot actually. Hands are very very useful.

Might > kings in teams, Kings > might for soloing quest and stuff.

---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 12:41 PM ----------

Mastery being our second best stat (not including hit and exp), after Haste being top, puts Might far ahead of kings in terms of a defensive buff. Use Might for when you're in dungeons or raids as all dps classes get some kind of dps boost from it, and healing classes get a healing boost. Granted, it's not as much as a buff for dps as 5% strength or agi but it's something. Only use Kings if you have a Shaman in the group or some other source for the mastery buff, or if you're doing dailys because 5% strength helps you kill things faster.

Just realised how hillarious it is that I spent the first like month of the expansion saying that haste was a good viable stat, and ofc almost everyone disagreed with me. Took me a long time to even convince some people it was viable. Now the last few weeks I have been instead reminding people that mastery is still a better defensive stat and that haste is only better because of the added dps and the lack of tank damage this tier and now everyone is all "Haste is 1!". Hard to tell which is "best" of mastery and haste. Since they do not work in exactly the same way. Mastery smoothens predictable spikes, adds more TDR, while haste adds more dps and smoothens the static damage taken better however adds nothing to the big predicable spike damages. All I know is that it is an upside down world!

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

On the topic of Haste vs Mastery vs Stamina (some people still need to worry about the third ), take what works best for you. They are all worth about the same, but do different jobs. The first one increases your ShoR uptime (or rather it reduces the time between ShoRs), judicial use of ShoR at the right moment can make Mastery an awesome stat, and Stamina gives your healers time to heal you between ShoRs. For me as a 25M heroic raider, I'm finding that having that extra buffer is getting more useful than a slight increase in uptime or damage reduction.

[Judas]

Thanks again guys, I havent played my Pally in almost 18 monthes, I've been a Lock lately, so transferred him tonight from Alliance to Horde and dusted off his 85 armor.
Things are a bit different to last time so I've been using the OP as pretty much a strict guide plus I've taken into account the answers to my questions here.
The biggest problem I have right now is what to track on TellMeWhen, I'am not sure of what procs, spells, cooldowns, stacks I'am supposed to be watching apart from my holy power.
On my Lock I have almost a dozen things going that I track, not all buffs I have Raven for that, but I like to know what proc's and for how long as well as how much of something I have so it can now be used.
So apart from holy power what am I looking for, 18 monthes has been a long time it took awhile tonight to get my rotation set up correctly and I havent really spent any game time playing yet.
Thank you again for the help and patience.

[Deleted]

Instead of tellmewhen, you could try weakauras and import the prot pally strings that Theck has posted in his Sacred Duty blog. They show most of what you need to be tracking - like the bastion of glory stacks and weakened blows etc.

http://sacredduty.net/2012/10/23/tan...strings-5-0-5/

I don't think we have many procs that we need to watch for - the grand crusader one is very evident from the default UI.

[Rivin]

I also use TellmeWhen, great addon, what procs should I be tracking or stacks?

I personally use TellMeWhen to track:

Sacred Shield (30-second buff)
Shield of the Righteous buff
Bastion of Glory stacks
Weakened Blows
Divine Purpose
...and one that tells me when Hammer of Wrath is ready, only because it's already there from my Ret spec :U

[Deleted]

Do I use SotR once I have a stack of 3 Holy Power up and do I use HotR at the start of my rotation before Crusader Strike?

Depends what you're doing and what the setup is. HotR is useful as an opener in single target IF nobody else in your party/raid can apply the melee attack debuff. For instance, an Elemental Shaman will *eventually* apply it when they have enough stacks to Earth Shock so if you open with HotR you'll probably have the debuff last long enough for the Shaman to get his own rolling in and you can just keep using CS.

About the Holy Power: Depends. On fights where you need to react quickly with WoG/SotR it's always best to let it stack to 5. For instance, while tanking Elegon, I always let it go to 5 before I use SotR, so I can pop a WoG quickly in case his breath gets me low on HP.

Also do we use any of the Hands, with our focus as a tank I'am thinking thier more of a Ret. Pally thing but again I'am still learning here.

You use your Hands in all specs. I have mouse-over macros for all of them. Salvation is useful at the start so you can make sure your burstier DPSers don't aggro (my raid's shamans get very close sometimes) which is particularly useful if you have to move the boss, thus reducing your TPS. HoSacrifice can be a life saver in certain fights. You can use it to help mitigate damage from big undispellable dots like Amber Shaper's Parasite or Blade Lord's Wind Step, for instance.

HoProtection has lots of uses too, specially in Spirit Kings and Blade Lord, as it's the only spell that can dispell Wind Step and Pin Down (or whatever it's called), apart from self-cast-only cooldowns, of course. If you do or intend to ever do Blade Lord HC you can make your life waaaay easier with every Paladin in the raid. During progression I had me plus a Retri, both taking Clemency, so we had 4 'dispells' which we always used to save healer ass during Blade Tempest (sometimes they'd have trouble healing through Wind Step while running away from the Tempest).

In Wind Lord Meljarak you can also use it, if you have quick reflexes, so save someone that gets targeted by the Blademasters and you're sure will die (someone that's low on Hp or smthn).

I thought Devotion Aura would cover most of them.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Devotion Aura reduces 20% MAGIC damage and makes targets immune to Silence. Be wary of the range though. It's still a decent cooldown for Garalon's pheromones or Will of the Emperor's Titan Gas.

And Might over Kings?

Assuming you don't have anyone else buffing you, I'd always take Might as Prot.

****EDIT*****

HoFreedom is also useful in a couple fights. In Stone Guard you can use it on you or whoever will be breaking Ice Mines during Cobalt petrification. In WoE if your DPSers slack and let a Courage reach a tank you can also use it to avoid getting slowed and mowed down by the dance combo.

[Deleted]

About the Holy Power: Depends. On fights where you need to react quickly with WoG/SotR it's always best to let it stack to 5. For instance, while tanking Elegon, I always let it go to 5 before I use SotR, so I can pop a WoG quickly in case his breath gets me low on HP.

Breaths are on a long and fairly easy timer. Wobbling around 5 HoPo for the entire time seems like a bit of an overkill. As it requires more effort to constantly check your HoPo compared to just using SotR whenever you can. I often just bank up and make sure to have 3 for when he actually breaths. Other parts of the fight I do not really bother. You can even cover like half the breaths with DProt.

[Xs]

Breaths are on a long and fairly easy timer. Wobbling around 5 HoPo for the entire time seems like a bit of an overkill. As it requires more effort to constantly check your HoPo compared to just using SotR whenever you can. I often just bank up and make sure to have 3 for when he actually breaths. Other parts of the fight I do not really bother. You can even cover like half the breaths with DProt.

You have to pay attention to your HoP? I don't even need a bar other than for the out of combat decay

[Rivin]

You have to pay attention to your HoP? I don't even need a bar other than for the out of combat decay

Well, I guess if you're really good at tracking many things at once in your mind you wouldn't need one, but it's easy to get distracted and lose count and then the bar is there to remind you where you were. :P

[Tax]

You guys all switching to hand of purity come 5.2? That 10% damage reduction looks really nice for any boss burst damage. Is it the clear choice now?

[Nairobi]

I certainly won't be taking it in place of Unbreakable Spirit unless fight mechanics dictate it's use/abuse. But, that'ts pretty much par for the course as far as talents go.

For MOST "traditional" uses, 40% magic OR 20% all dmg reduction for 10 sec on a 35-45sec CD wins out over 10% dmg redux and 60 (70?)% DOT redux for 6 sec on a 30 sec CD.

I'm sure HoP will have its uses, but I won't be running it over UbS for "baseline" work.

[MerinPally]

You guys all switching to hand of purity come 5.2? That 10% damage reduction looks really nice for any boss burst damage. Is it the clear choice now?

I wasn't going to bother unless I saw some maths for otherwise or there was a DOT heavy fight. 20% uptime of a 10%/10% damage reduction, or about a 20% uptime due to Unbreakable Spirit of a 20%/20% damage reduction or a 40% magic. If tank damage is no issue and the raid needs a regular extra damage reduction CD then maybe but... I didn't see it as tantalising enough. If there's some maths or proof otherwise then let me know as I'm somewhat out of the loop due to university for another month.

Oh also, consider that Hand of Purity will require a GCD and DP doesn't, so taking UbS gives it the same uptime as HoP but gives you better reduction and doesn't eat a GCD.

[Nairobi]

Oh also, consider that Hand of Purity will require a GCD and DP doesn't, so taking UbS gives it the same uptime as HoP but gives you better reduction and doesn't eat a GCD.

Additionally has the side benefits of shorter LoH/bubble CD's, which can be nice for raid saving or debuff clearing, respectively.

That said, the ability to target HoPur is nice on some fights this tier, like HC Lei Shi on your stackers. Ironically, UbS is effectively mandatory on that fight as prot. Using a GCD on that sucks, and I believe it is also hard-capped at 1.5sec GCD which REALLY sucks (been a long time since I've used it, so not sure on that one).

Really hope/wish they'd fix the GCD issue on SS, LH and ES already...