[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[Nairobi]

Finally cleared 12/12 last night.

Does any of you guys play along a Monk tank?

Our monk tank does an insane amount of DPS. When it comes to single target and low-vengeance situations I just don't have a shot at competing with him for DPS.

Anyone else experiencing this?

We ended the fight with me doing like 35 Mill damge and he was on 50 Mill.

My co-tank is a BrM. 4/13 HC atm, and I'm beating him on a lot of fights. He's no slouch either, we've both ranked #1 on fights.

However, this is on heroic, which is innately higher vengeance. On things like trash or normal modes, Keg Smash/Dizzying Haze is retard-strong threat, which snags all aggro, which gives more vengeance, which gives more threat...continue ad nauseum.

On boss fights, I'm usually doing more of/all of the main tanking, while he does more of the switch/add duties. This allows me to get high veng, which we scale well with for both DPS and HPS. Likewise, as you noted, they do high dmg without much veng, so no loss for him there. Additionally, it allows him to pick up adds or whatever, as he's more mobile and has better aoe threat.

All about playing to your strengths and the strengths of your group.

But yeah, forget about threat vs. a monk on trash. Go AFK and get a beer or something.

[Deleted]

Where our dmg really differs a lot, so far, has been on Iron Qon and Lei Shen where he does way more damage. In fights like Horridon I usually come above but when it's just pure single target I find it close to impossible to compete. Though, given, I don't have that great a gear as I skip every piece that's better for any DPS or Healer in the raid so I don't have as much Haste as I should, though my ilvl is good.

[Nairobi]

Why are you not 1-tanking Iron Qon? o.O

Not sure what to say on Lei Shen, as there are so many diff strats/orders that can adjust vengeance levels etc. You should tank him first/often, and let the monk basically offtank, to max overall dps/healing. In phase 2, you can just hold him the entire time, as you will not die to the fusion slash debuff (in 10m normal).

[Fhi]

Finally cleared 12/12 last night.

Does any of you guys play along a Monk tank?

Our monk tank does an insane amount of DPS. When it comes to single target and low-vengeance situations I just don't have a shot at competing with him for DPS.

Anyone else experiencing this?

I play a BrM, and my co-tank is a prot paladin (we switched places - he used to be BrM and I was the prot. lul) and this is not uncommon at all. However, prot paladins can shine on hard hitting single targets too (many stacks of Triple Puncture for example), and on fights like that we end up close in damage done. Monks just reach the "high dps" platform faster than prot paladins.

[Deleted]

Monks just reach the "high dps" platform faster than prot paladins.

Exactly this. Play through raidbots and check the damage done by prot paladins / brms at different percentiles and this is quite easy to notice.

[Maester]

Anyone want to take a look at my armory and help me fix up my gemming? I think I can squeeze out some more Haste if I change switch around some gemming/reforging.

I would be eternally grateful!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...s/Bep/advanced

[Jyuri]

Anyone pros can give an advice on which ring I should go for?

My armory link:
Jyuri

The two rings I'm considering to replace Dominator's Circle:
Loop of the Shado-Pan Assault
Band of the Shado-Pan Assault

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Actually, you might be better off replacing the 502 ring first. More haste and so on.

I got the haste/crit ring from the shado pan assault.

In other news, a couple of items (Tier shoulders and Oondasta haste/exp gloves) have got me about 2k haste for the lowly price of 4k health. Back up to 19%, from 12.5ish.

[Jyuri]

Actually, you might be better off replacing the 502 ring first. More haste and so on.

I got the haste/crit ring from the shado pan assault.

Yes, I was thinking of that as well, but after thinking through, because of the Critical Strike, wouldn't be wasted stats? I mean, Dodge would at least be of a better stat than Critical Strike, wouldn't it? But then again, yes, the Haste is tempting... >.<"

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

It is only 400 crit rating, after all. If the stats were the other way round though (400 haste, 650 crit) I wouldn't have bothered buying it.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...etzie/advanced

[Jyuri]

It is only 400 crit rating, after all. If the stats were the other way round though (400 haste, 650 crit) I wouldn't have bothered buying it.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...etzie/advanced

Yea, I reasoned with myself on that as well. Haha! But somehow the current state of Grand Crusader is wavering me towards having that little bit more of Dodge and Parry instead of having that amount of Critical Strike... -_-"

And crap... I've been trying my luck on the ring from Blade Lord and none dropped, not even with coins... Shrugs... =(

[zloitima]

I have a question of a more general plane.
Isn't reforging out of hit and expertise bad? They take more of the item budget for each point, don't they? So aren't we losing, by reforging expertise>haste, than for example parry>haste?

[Jyuri]

It is only 400 crit rating, after all. If the stats were the other way round though (400 haste, 650 crit) I wouldn't have bothered buying it.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...etzie/advanced

I've gone through a reforging calculation of the rings configuration and the results as follows:

Config #1
Loop of the Shado-Pan Assault & Band of Bursting Novas:
Crit: 0
Dodge: 1583
Exp: 5100
Haste: 10487
Hit: 2550
Mastery: 2954
Parry: 1673

Config #2
Band of the Shado-Pan Assault & Band of Bursting Novas:
Crit: 281
Dodge: 1061
Exp: 5100
Haste: 10662
Hit: 2550
Mastery: 2997
Parry: 1673

Config #3
Dominator's Circle & Band of the Shado-Pan Assault
Crit: 534
Dodge: 993
Exp: 5100
Haste: 10631
Hit: 2550
Mastery: 2992
Parry: 1487

Seems like configuration 3 is a loss in all stats except Critical Strike, guess I'll be sticking to configuration 2. Hmm...

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 12:15 PM ----------

I have a question of a more general plane.
Isn't reforging out of hit and expertise bad? They take more of the item budget for each point, don't they? So aren't we losing, by reforging expertise>haste, than for example parry>haste?

It shouldn't be a "loss" if you are able to reforge to perfect expertise and hit rating thus reducing the amount of "wasted" stats...

[Xs]

I have a question of a more general plane.
Isn't reforging out of hit and expertise bad? They take more of the item budget for each point, don't they? So aren't we losing, by reforging expertise>haste, than for example parry>haste?

That would require you having Parry, more of a waste in itself than the reforge would ever be :3
Also on a more serious note, in a lot of cases its just not possible to get a better gear set-up than the one that has 14% hit from gear or something ridiculous, very much the case if you have terrible RNG

[Deleted]

I have a question of a more general plane.
Isn't reforging out of hit and expertise bad? They take more of the item budget for each point, don't they? So aren't we losing, by reforging expertise>haste, than for example parry>haste?

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Have a horrible feeling I may have misunderstood something about stat budgets on pieces.

[Nairobi]

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Have a horrible feeling I may have misunderstood something about stat budgets on pieces.

I think he's referring to the fact that getting 1% of hit or expertise takes more rating than getting 1% of haste or mastery. But overall, the total secondary stat budget is balanced based on item level. If a piece (like the random-stat bracers) has 900 of X stat, it will be 900 of haste, or expertise, or dodge depending on what it rolls.

At any rate, as others have said, you're far better off taking a Haste/Crit piece and reforging Crit-> Mastery/accuracy than taking a Dodge/Mastery piece and reforging Dodge -> Haste. You'll end up with more haste, and more accuracy at the cost of some dodge. Obviously, we have to work with what drops (I just couldn't pass up the 535 Dodge/Parry helmet ) so this isn't always an option, but for valor items you should DEF grab the "dps" ring over the "tank" one for tank purposes.

Crit is NOT useless, and is on par with D/P for "priority" in gearing (in a 10m N/HC setting at least). Crit won't add to survival (unless you count crit-WOGs) or mitigation, but will have a near linear increase on damage output, which indirectly reduces damage taken by shortening the fight. D/P add minimally to survival, but are subject to DR, and can/do yield primarily overheal in a stable situation. They CAN save the day with a lucky string of avoidance at low health, but you'd be just that: LUCKY. Don't rely on them. And the factor of their increase on DPS via GCAS proc's is about equal to the factor of Crit's value to survival via crit-WOG.

TL;DR: Attain hit cap and expertise hard or soft cap (depending on preference/talents). Then, go for Haste/Mast > Haste/Accuracy > Mast/Accuracy > Haste/Crit> Mast/Crit> Mast/Avoid > Avoid/Accuracy > Double Avoid as a guideline.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I would rate hit/expertise quite highly on that list.

[Nairobi]

I would rate hit/expertise quite highly on that list.

I suppose I should have clarified that the TL;DR list is from the standpoint of already being hit/exp capped. Good catch, will amend.

[Deleted]

I suppose I should have clarified that the TL;DR list is from the standpoint of already being hit/exp capped. Good catch, will amend.

9.9 expertise, going strong!

[Maester]

Anyone want to take a look at my armory and help me fix up my gemming? I think I can squeeze out some more Haste if I change switch around some gemming/reforging.

I would be eternally grateful!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...s/Bep/advanced

/10chars