1. #2001
    Deleted
    sdfsdf.... finally back at a real computer and can have proper arguments, felt handicapped on my cellphone for 1 month, hard to get your arguments through haha

  2. #2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    sdfsdf.... finally back at a real computer and can have proper arguments, felt handicapped on my cellphone for 1 month, hard to get your arguments through haha
    Go pop your head in the R&D forum. There's a thread you'll love. Bet you can guess which one...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  3. #2003
    Deleted
    "Why have Prot palas not been nerfed?"

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-30 at 06:24 PM ----------

    Haha prefer constructive threads.

    Any OP with arguments like
    " pala will do so much healing hes basically a 3rd tank"

    doesnt seem worthwhile respondin too since whatever you say he will ignore it. I do agree though that paladins needs change, not nerfs specifically, would call it balancing. They have some niches that are too strong.

  4. #2004
    High Overlord Solarflair's Avatar
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    Hey guys just had a question and a concern here.
    I want to try a haste build, but I'm afraid I'm going to get trucked by bosses if I do.
    If I can make the hit cap, and expertise hard cap - how much damage intake am I going to notice if I switch from dodge/parry,etc. to haste primarily?

    I think the prospect of more Holy Power is exciting, but I don't want my healers to hate me.
    Any key pointers to running a haste build?

    Thanks
    #TeamHunter

  5. #2005
    Deleted
    The key point of haste build (as with any other build) is to maximize your effectiveness, that is, no dead time between GCDs and use as many GCDs as possible for HoPo generators, and use your SotR properly.

    Switchin from dodge/parry to haste you should notice nothing but benefits, so you have nothing to worry about. Haste vs sta/mastery is another tougher question.

  6. #2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Those contributions allow us to drop a healer (or gain a healer, depending on need) to alter strats or bypass a challenging part of the encounter, FAR more than any amount of stamina or avoidance ever could.
    Disclaimer: This is situational

    When my guild first did Garalon, we actually found that our biggest DPS boost was by having both tanks in tank spec. My druid co-tank would just get rocked in kitty, however I was survivable enough in ret & did nearly twice the damage.

    However it meant all the DPS ended up playing slightly more conservatively, because the healers were slightly more focused on the tanks... and the DPS loss from the real DPSers playing more conservatively was bigger than the extra ~50k dps I brought to the table playing as ret rather than prot.

    Now that fight was somewhat unusual in that there was such constant damage going out, but my point is that there are times when survival is the biggest dps gain.

    I agree with Nairobi's basic point, but always remember to look at the big picture about how you can contribute best to DPS. Sometimes gearing for survival so the healers can neglect you more is a good DPS boosting choice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Solarflair View Post
    Hey guys just had a question and a concern here.
    I want to try a haste build, but I'm afraid I'm going to get trucked by bosses if I do.
    If I can make the hit cap, and expertise hard cap - how much damage intake am I going to notice if I switch from dodge/parry,etc. to haste primarily?
    You will definitely see your DTPS average go up on logs. Don't expect an improvement there. You'll quite likely be taking an extra 5-10k average damage.

    On the other hand, if you're doing it right - pooling HoPow & spending it when your health is dipping or you're about to go over-cap - you'll likely feel much safer & your healers are likely to feel much more comfortable, because your damage intake becomes much more predictable. TBH you'd probably even see an improvement if you just used your holy power generators as much as possible & mindlessly spammed SotR at 3 HoPow, tho I wouldn't recommend that technique.

    If you're making the transition & want to smooth things in, I'd suggest going with settings closer to Askmrrobot's default haste settings. Keep your stamina value high, use at least one stam trinket. Keep hit & expertise cap to make it more predictable for yourself. It's the least-truckable version of the haste setup.

    Once you're more comfortable with the build, then you can start bleeding off the stamina in favour of a more pure haste setup (assuming you're still comfortable with your survival & want even more dps). I currently tend to use a setup that roughly corresponds to haste = stamina (1:1.01) on mr robot, although I swap things around with trinkets a lot. Others would take that even further.
    Last edited by lakhesis; 2013-04-30 at 08:53 PM.

  7. #2007
    High Overlord Solarflair's Avatar
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    Thank you both!
    #TeamHunter

  8. #2008
    Deleted
    @Nairobi

    I dared myself to a late night tired drunken abstinence reply in that thread, what could possibly go wrong right?

  9. #2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    @Nairobi

    I dared myself to a late night tired drunken abstinence reply in that thread, what could possibly go wrong right?
    You couldn't derail it anymore, that's for sure

  10. #2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    You couldn't derail it anymore, that's for sure
    Couldn't derail or provide more wrong information!

    *FTFY
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  11. #2011
    Deleted
    might be a stupid question, but what is the best way to get gear for my prot pally at 90?
    I leveled as ret and played holy in dungeons so I don't have much equip suitable for prot, and have no really good idea how to get equip.
    I'm not sure if queueing as tank in dungeons would be a good idea (threat issues, survivability issues..), also normally I don't have the time to get max vp and I'm not sure if I can tank very well as I have no experience with a prot pally in groups.. (I only know from some scenario runs that my dps is horrible ^^)
    armory, if needed: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...alora/advanced
    (as I said, it's pretty mixed up at the moment, much pvp gear, much ret gear..)
    thanks in advance, and again sorry für the stupid question..

  12. #2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaiara View Post
    might be a stupid question, but what is the best way to get gear for my prot pally at 90?
    I leveled as ret and played holy in dungeons so I don't have much equip suitable for prot, and have no really good idea how to get equip.
    I'm not sure if queueing as tank in dungeons would be a good idea (threat issues, survivability issues..), also normally I don't have the time to get max vp and I'm not sure if I can tank very well as I have no experience with a prot pally in groups.. (I only know from some scenario runs that my dps is horrible ^^)
    armory, if needed: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...alora/advanced
    (as I said, it's pretty mixed up at the moment, much pvp gear, much ret gear..)
    thanks in advance, and again sorry für the stupid question..
    Queue for LFR as Ret, you get better gear that way and you can do basically nothing

  13. #2013
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Queue for LFR as Ret, you get better gear that way and you can do basically nothing
    but surely I should change my prot spec back to ret for that? :/
    on another note, is ret gear suitable for a prot pally?
    Last edited by mmoc6758ac0f09; 2013-05-01 at 10:43 AM.

  14. #2014
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaiara View Post
    but surely I should change my prot spec back to ret for that? :/
    on another note, is ret gear suitable for a prot pally?
    Apart from the weapon, yea. Some prot tier pieces are decent and while the 2P bonus isn't anything special it's still a nice little bonus and getting those 2 pieces won't harm your gearing (I think it's shoulders and chest that have the better itemization? can't remember for sure)

  15. #2015
    Deleted
    Yes, ret gear is suitable for a prot pally - it's only crit that is not a valuable tank stat; the haste, mastery, hit and expertise you find on ret gear are all perversely more valuable to protadins than parry and dodge. You'll need a shield and one man, but otherwise would be fine in ret gear (including PvP gear - nothing wrong with that, especially the 476 stuff you could trade in for JPs, after converting to honour points.)

    And yes, if you were going to queue as dps in LFR, then you change your spec back to dps. Prot do really awful damage without vengeance and it will be painfully obvious to the group - you would be very likely to be kicked.

    But my advice would be to run some 5 mans as prot, to get more confident in your tanking. If you can tank, then LFR is not that demanding in terms of gear. But LFR can be brutal on tanks who don't know what they are doing.

    Then I would run last tier's LFR as prot for more upgrades and to get confident in herding cats, I mean tanking for 24 PUGS. Make sure you do some IoT dailies to get elder coins for extra rolls on the loot.

    I used to queue as ret in LFR as the gear was better for me (or at least useful for my ret os) but the dps queues became so crippling, I now tank. Tanking is a lot of fun, and if you want to tank, tank. LFR gear is likely to be transitional anyway, so I would not sweat too much over the secondary stats.

  16. #2016
    Deleted
    thanks for all the advice

    I know most of the bosses from tanking PoV as my main is guardian and I like tanking, that's why I wanted to play prot (also I suck at doing damage, no matter the class..)

    but I think I'll run lfr a few times as ret to get some gear (hopefully) and then run some dungeons as prot to get some experience and confidence, like you said.

    thanks again

  17. #2017
    In 5.3 you're going to be able to run LFR as a tank (to practice tanking) and set your "loot role" to retribution (to get the items you actually want).

  18. #2018
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    In 5.3 you're going to be able to run LFR as a tank (to practice tanking) and set your "loot role" to retribution (to get the items you actually want).
    I know, and I'm eagerly waiting for that feature to go live ^^

  19. #2019
    Deleted
    Do you actually reach a point where getting more haste is pretty much wasted? currently at 41% unbuffed

  20. #2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Jouten View Post
    Do you actually reach a point where getting more haste is pretty much wasted? currently at 41% unbuffed
    50% is the cap, you're now capped on spells with SoI and the final 9% will get you the rest on CS etc.

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