1. #2081
    I don't know if it was mentioned before, since I didn't read the whole thread, but what do people think about the protection tier 15 2 set bonus? 70% block chance seems pretty good, even at a cost of dps and SoR, every 15 secs.

  2. #2082
    Deleted
    It is rather terrible. Not to mention that a large amount (most often a majority) of the damage is non-blockable, even 70% block, is still random. SotR is a fixed physical damage reduction, block is not.

    Its only use is simply for those times you actually have to use a WoG, it becomes less of a loss.

  3. #2083
    First of all ty for the guide, second some concerns, why dont pick Holy Prism in the last talent spot since it gives more dmg and healing overall than the other talents and it can just fill an x in your rotation since its better than your HW so the priority table would go as this (Keep SS up, AS, Consec, HP, HW), plus doing it on yourself heals you and helps with aoe threat (not like thats a problem tho), other thing i was jsut asking myself about is: i find myself never saving holy powers so PoJ just gives a flat 15 percent movement speed, i rather pick LAotL for movement speed since you have it up for 3 seconds every 5 seconds or more if ppl stack haste wich i personally hate since i dont like a tank going for a dps stat.

  4. #2084
    Quote Originally Posted by Tian View Post
    First of all ty for the guide, second some concerns, why dont pick Holy Prism in the last talent spot since it gives more dmg and healing overall than the other talents and it can just fill an x in your rotation since its better than your HW so the priority table would go as this (Keep SS up, AS, Consec, HP, HW), plus doing it on yourself heals you and helps with aoe threat (not like thats a problem tho), other thing i was jsut asking myself about is: i find myself never saving holy powers so PoJ just gives a flat 15 percent movement speed, i rather pick LAotL for movement speed since you have it up for 3 seconds every 5 seconds or more if ppl stack haste wich i personally hate since i dont like a tank going for a dps stat.
    Most of us DO:

    1) Take Holy Prism the majority of the time (some fights have a benefit for LH, such as Megaera HC, Council HC); ES is pretty much never taken.
    2) Take LAotL the majority of the time. POJ is more useful on some encounters (JiKun, Primo HC, Megaera HC) and can be used on pretty much any fight in place of LAotL if you prefer. POJ is largely ignored.

    If you're not stacking haste, you're 99% of the time doing it wrong. In 10mans, haste will outperform every other conceivable stat (especially dodge/parry) by orders of magnitude in terms of DPS, HPS and HoPo gen.
    If you're sticking to the priority you listed (AS, Cons, Prism, HW), you're also doing it wrong. SS is important and should be kept up at all times, but you should always prioritize HoPo gen's over fillers. After that, AS is your hardest hitter, followed by HW, then Cons/Prism. There is a post on a previous page showing the DPET of each of the fillers based on target number.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
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  5. #2085
    Deleted
    Tian,

    I also use Holy Prism 90% of the time. No regrets, it does good damage and if timed correctly can help a lot with raid healing.

    I also use Long Arm of the Law most of the time and only switch to the sprint one in fights where it's more useful (like Iron Qon, Ji-kun, Blade Lord (in HoF), etc)

    Also, Haste stacking made tanking a lot more fun and dynamic for me. Only downside is making my Prot Warrior feel clunky and slow as hell in comparison now.

  6. #2086
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Since late Tier-whatever-the-fuck-MSV/HOF was, LaotL beats PoJ due to the haste values, I thought I'd edited that in so I'll do it now. With regards to Holy Prism and Lights Hammer, in the last tier LH was better for more of the fights than prism I seem to remember. If that's changed for this tier (kinda obviously has) I'll change it as well.

    Edit: Done.
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  7. #2087
    Deleted
    first week on 25s
    /ranking wanking

  8. #2088
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Most of us DO:

    1) Take Holy Prism the majority of the time (some fights have a benefit for LH, such as Megaera HC, Council HC); ES is pretty much never taken.
    2) Take LAotL the majority of the time. POJ is more useful on some encounters (JiKun, Primo HC, Megaera HC) and can be used on pretty much any fight in place of LAotL if you prefer. POJ is largely ignored.

    If you're not stacking haste, you're 99% of the time doing it wrong. In 10mans, haste will outperform every other conceivable stat (especially dodge/parry) by orders of magnitude in terms of DPS, HPS and HoPo gen.
    If you're sticking to the priority you listed (AS, Cons, Prism, HW), you're also doing it wrong. SS is important and should be kept up at all times, but you should always prioritize HoPo gen's over fillers. After that, AS is your hardest hitter, followed by HW, then Cons/Prism. There is a post on a previous page showing the DPET of each of the fillers based on target number.


    TY for the fast response,
    First of all can you give me that link to the post that talks about the fillers.

    Second,
    about the priority list that i mentioned i was jsut talking about fillers i obviously prioritize the HoPo gen`s to keep my SotR Buff up, right now without haste i`ve managed to keep it up for 62 percent of the time in every fight, the thing is that i jsut came back to wow cause i hated cata and im stuck doing RF untill i get some decent gear to app for progression guild and you dont get to roll for haste gear in RF, (I said i hate it but that doesnt man im going agianst it since i know its one of the proritys now for a lot of reasons such as, dps/threat, HPS, and mitigation).

    and ty MerinPally for the guide and the editing now i just read the thread and went to the last page to reply wasnt going to read 105 pages.=D

  9. #2089
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    For the reference regarding dmg priority :

    While i haven't updated it in a while (5.0 / 5.1 (?)) I think it should still be fine.
    Not that I don't believe you, but how are you getting 62% uptime on ShotR with no haste? Most of us on here with 15k+ haste are barely breaking the 60%s...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  10. #2090
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Not that I don't believe you, but how are you getting 62% uptime on ShotR with no haste? Most of us on here with 15k+ haste are barely breaking the 60%s...
    I have seen almost 80% uptime on some fights. 60-75% (most often around 65%) is standard, on fights that does not have any obvious downtime, like Primordius, Megeara etc, these bosses you have obvious downtimes. Really, a lot of fights this tier. If you are eating stuns on Council, Prim and Meg as mentioned, Ji-Kun, Animus, Lei-Shen, Qon, all got very obvious parts of the fights that will lower your overall uptime.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 09:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    2) Take LAotL the majority of the time. POJ is more useful on some encounters (JiKun, Primo HC, Megaera HC) and can be used on pretty much any fight in place of LAotL if you prefer. POJ is largely ignored.
    Guessing SoL on the first one?
    Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-05-13 at 09:01 PM.

  11. #2091
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Not that I don't believe you, but how are you getting 62% uptime on ShotR with no haste? Most of us on here with 15k+ haste are barely breaking the 60%s...
    Well i just did the numbers and checked it with some log i had, in a normal 5 minute fight you can pop HA 3 times wich gives you a total of 54 seconds of SotR and 3 more if you hit one in the last second, without the HA doing the rotation right you should hit a SotR every 7 seconds, wich gives you 3 seconds of buff uptime every 7 seconds. a 5 minute fight has a total of 300 seconds 300/7=42.85 that means almost 43 rotations of SotR, in each of those rotations you should a total of 3 seconds of SotR buff, so 43*3= a total of 129 seconds, that plus the 54 seconds of HA and 9 more if you do hit one in the last second of each HA gives you a total of 192, (192/300)*100 = 64 percent total uptime in a standstill fight or in a fight that you dont have to move away from boss so that you never stop hitting him, and the other 36 percent you can manage it by just using cds( they are threre for a reason =P), the other thing i do is that while HA is up i change my rotation, doing it like this, (CS, X, Jud, X, CS, X, Jud.. etc) giving me an uptime of SotR buff in the whole duration of the cd, thats how i`ve managed to do it. thats not on every fight tho you have to do it perfect to achieve it.

    other thing i saw is that the table you just linked me doesnt have HP, and im sure that on a single target fight it does hit harder than HW, making it better, just checking it on dummies HW hits for 19k, and HP for 29k

    TY
    Last edited by Tian; 2013-05-13 at 09:30 PM.

  12. #2092
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Since late Tier-whatever-the-fuck-MSV/HOF was, LaotL beats PoJ due to the haste values, I thought I'd edited that in so I'll do it now. With regards to Holy Prism and Lights Hammer, in the last tier LH was better for more of the fights than prism I seem to remember. If that's changed for this tier (kinda obviously has) I'll change it as well.

    Edit: Done.
    LAotL always beat or was on-par with PoJ, except for maybe WotE. Difference was people didn't really realise by how much or that it "felt" bad. With the new tier the difference just became more noticeable.

    HP vs LH, there was more stack up fights last tier, so placing LH is very awkward on several fights as there is just so much spreading out, especially in 10 man, as in 25 man, you can still often throw it at groups of 7-8 people making it atleast decent, whilst in 10, those groups of 6-7 people is instead 2-3 making is far less valuable. Also, as our haste levels increases, HP becomes more attracive for 2 reason.

    1. We are getting more free globals. The problem with HP at 0% haste was that you simply did not have any free GCDs, often making the effective CD of it closer to 40 seconds than 20.
    2. The fact that LH and ES GCD do not scale with haste is becoming more noticeable. They feel very awkward to use atleast for me, as they still have 1.5s GCD, which is also favoring HP. I just hope to god that they fix SS GCD soon.

  13. #2093
    I'm using AskMrRobot to gear, but it wants we to take the prot 4 set. So badly, apparently, that it wants me to take the dodge/parry T15 prot chest over the exp/haste T15 ret chest. Is the 4 set really THAT valuable?

  14. #2094
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tian View Post
    the other thing i do is that while HA is up i change my rotation, doing it like this, (CS, X, Jud, X, CS, X, Jud.. etc) giving me an uptime of SotR buff in the whole duration of the cd, thats how i`ve managed to do it. thats not on every fight tho you have to do it perfect to achieve it.
    Wait what? Why would you do that?


    other thing i saw is that the table you just linked me doesnt have HP, and im sure that on a single target fight it does hit harder than HW, making it better, just checking it on dummies HW hits for 19k, and HP for 29k
    Rather sure HW hits for more, and it is on a shorter cooldown making it more effective for pure DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    I'm using AskMrRobot to gear, but it wants we to take the prot 4 set. So badly, apparently, that it wants me to take the dodge/parry T15 prot chest over the exp/haste T15 ret chest. Is the 4 set really THAT valuable?
    No.

  15. #2095
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    LAotL always beat or was on-par with PoJ, except for maybe WotE. Difference was people didn't really realise by how much or that it "felt" bad. With the new tier the difference just became more noticeable.

    HP vs LH, there was more stack up fights last tier, so placing LH is very awkward on several fights as there is just so much spreading out, especially in 10 man, as in 25 man, you can still often throw it at groups of 7-8 people making it atleast decent, whilst in 10, those groups of 6-7 people is instead 2-3 making is far less valuable. Also, as our haste levels increases, HP becomes more attracive for 2 reason.

    1. We are getting more free globals. The problem with HP at 0% haste was that you simply did not have any free GCDs, often making the effective CD of it closer to 40 seconds than 20.
    2. The fact that LH and ES GCD do not scale with haste is becoming more noticeable. They feel very awkward to use atleast for me, as they still have 1.5s GCD, which is also favoring HP. I just hope to god that they fix SS GCD soon.
    Totally agree with you on the LAotL, however im a tank with 0 haste right now and you get from time to time some free gcds, where you can squeez in something, as i mentioned, ive been testing HP and i think its way better than HW even for aoe fights with just 5 mobs, it hits harder and always heals someone, about LH idk, yah you can throw it to groups but i found myself critting with the HP heal with vengeance up for about 120k or more to 5 random people and thats every 20 seconds, idk if im being stubborn or something but i think HP is way better than the other 2 talents and maybe it`s jsut being underestimated

  16. #2096
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tian View Post
    and ty MerinPally for the guide and the editing now i just read the thread and went to the last page to reply wasnt going to read 105 pages.=D
    There are some real gold in some of the pages that is not mentioned anywhere in any guide you will find, so if you get the time, I suggest you read through the thread. Or take it in breaks reading a few pages at the time

  17. #2097
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tian View Post
    and ty MerinPally for the guide and the editing now i just read the thread and went to the last page to reply wasnt going to read 105 pages.=D
    When this was like 40 pages, if anyone read every post and could somehow prove it, I'd buy them a pint. At 100+ I'd be making the nearby mental institute aware.
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  18. #2098
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tian View Post
    Totally agree with you on the LAotL, however im a tank with 0 haste right now and you get from time to time some free gcds, where you can squeez in something, as i mentioned, ive been testing HP and i think its way better than HW even for aoe fights with just 5 mobs, it hits harder and always heals someone, about LH idk, yah you can throw it to groups but i found myself critting with the HP heal with vengeance up for about 120k or more to 5 random people and thats every 20 seconds, idk if im being stubborn or something but i think HP is way better than the other 2 talents and maybe it`s jsut being underestimated
    You mentioned you were doing RF. I think HP have quite high base damage/heal but it scales worse than the other talent with vengeance. In a real raid, especially heroic raids your vengeance goes through the roof.

    Though yeah, HP is very good, but not at that level that the 2 other talents are completely useless.

  19. #2099
    Quote Originally Posted by Tian View Post
    As i said im currently a tank with no haste since RF does not let me roll on haste gear, i do that to have the SotR buff uptime the whole cd otherwise it will go down on the ...Jud, CS, X, X... part of the rotation.
    Reforging.

    Gems.

    Running raid finder as Ret.

    Switching to Ret spec, coining, then switching back.

    Valor gear that has haste.

    Crafted gear that has haste.

  20. #2100
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Wait what? Why would you do that?
    As i said before im currently a tank with no haste since RF doesnt let me roll on haste gear so i change my rotation on HA to have SotR buff up for the whole cd otherwise it will fall on the ... Jud, CS, X, X,... part of the rotation.

    and yah im nto saying the 2 other talents are useless they may have their use from time to time, im just saying i like HP more since i think it brings more to the raid and the tank overall.

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