[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[Deleted]

Well i just did the numbers and checked it with some log i had, in a normal 5 minute fight you can pop HA 3 times wich gives you a total of 54 seconds of SotR and 3 more if you hit one in the last second, without the HA doing the rotation right you should hit a SotR every 7 seconds, wich gives you 3 seconds of buff uptime every 7 seconds. a 5 minute fight has a total of 300 seconds 300/7=42.85 that means almost 43 rotations of SotR, in each of those rotations you should a total of 3 seconds of SotR buff, so 43*3= a total of 129 seconds, that plus the 54 seconds of HA and 9 more if you do hit one in the last second of each HA gives you a total of 192, (192/300)*100 = 64 percent total uptime

An ideal HA would happen when you have both CS and J off cooldown. If this is the case, you will get off 4 CS and 3 J during the duration of the HA.

In your example of a 5 minute fight, that means you will gett off 12 CS and 9 J at best during HA. This generates 63 HoPo.
During the remainder 4 minutes and 6 seconds of the fight, you would get off 54 CS and 35 J. Resulting in a total of 89 HoPo, adding that up with the HoPo from HA we get 152 HoPo, resulting in a 50.66% uptime.

This is presuming 100% perfect play however not counting GC procs. That fight would have resulted in an average of 8 procs from CS. Lets be nice on the boss and say that he has a perfect 1.5s swing timer getting off 200 hits exactly. Lets also presume that you are tanking the boss for 75% of the time because you are naturally more awesome then the other tank so he lets you tank the boss for a longer period of time.
That means you are recieving 150 hits. Your dodge+parry together may be around 30%, lets say 1/3 for ease giving you 50 dodges/parries~, which would result in another 4 procs. Now this is all being nice and all.

So that would add up to 12 HoPo give or take a few. Which seems reasonable checking my own logs, got 6 HoPo from GC during a 3 min kill and 24 during a 9 minute kill where I was tanking multiple mobs 100% of the time.
So that 12 HoPo would add another 4% uptime bumping you up to 54.66%. Now this is still presuming 100% perfect play.
So having 60% uptime with 0 haste does not really seem reasonable.

---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 09:51 PM ----------

As i said before im currently a tank with no haste since RF doesnt let me roll on haste gear so i change my rotation on HA to have SotR buff up for the whole cd otherwise it will fall on the ... Jud, CS, X, X,... part of the rotation.

and yah im nto saying the 2 other talents are useless they may have their use from time to time, im just saying i like HP more since i think it brings more to the raid and the tank overall.

The buff stacks. If you use CS(+SotR) - J(+SotR) in a row during HA you will get a 6 second duration. As such during an entire HA with 0 haste, you will gain 24 HoPo, which means that when HA runs out, you will have a 6 second SotR left. If you have higher haste values you can even see SotRs above 20 second duration.

You should not change your rotation during HA.

[Tian]

i came back to the game a month ago and hitted 90 3 weeks ago, im still getting used with evrything that has changed, i didn`t know you could change spec and coin it to get the ret gear i thought the spec was saved for the loot, since i jsut hitted 90 i dont have that lot of gear to enter raid as ret, plus i dont like getting carried that hard, the other thing is before i came back i was hacked a lot of times so i have 0 gold, so getting crafteds is hard since im trying to grind some gold right no, most of my reforges are going to either mastery or expertise since im hit capped.

[Deleted]

You should get the Ghost Iron Dragonling trinket. Allows for +600 haste+hit+expertise. It is one of the best if not the best trinket other than stamina trinkets until 522 trinkets. It is also kinda cheap on the AH.

Yes, I said it.

[Xs]

i came back to the game a month ago and hitted 90 3 weeks ago, im still getting used with evrything that has changed, i didn`t know you could change spec and coin it to get the ret gear i thought the spec was saved for the loot, since i jsut hitted 90 i dont have that lot of gear to enter raid as ret, plus i dont like getting carried that hard, the other thing is before i came back i was hacked a lot of times so i have 0 gold, so getting crafteds is hard since im trying to grind some gold right no, most of my reforges are going to either mastery or expertise since im hit capped.

Just go in as Ret, you'll do better than 90% of the people in there by just paying attention to boss mechanics and not dying

[Tian]

The buff stacks. If you use CS(+SotR) - J(+SotR) in a row during HA you will get a 6 second duration. As such during an entire HA with 0 haste, you will gain 24 HoPo, which means that when HA runs out, you will have a 6 second SotR left. If you have higher haste values you can even see SotRs above 20 second duration.

You should not change your rotation during HA.

i did not know that ty very much wont do anymore, on the other hand you are forgetting the procs of AS with your CS strikes wich will give you around 6 or more procs on a fight, more if you have haste, that takes you on about 56 or more uptime, that plus heroism or BL will get you to that 60 uptime, i love numbers but i just checked something in game and somehow both things we just talked about didnt quite work out idk maybe the ingame cds are not exact or something, ill have to test it on a real fight with buffs and all to come back here and tell you how was it.
ty for the trinket advise too, just bought it.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Actual cooldown = C/(1+(h/100))

C = normal cooldown
h= haste percentage.

so if you have 25% haste, your CS has a cooldown of

4.5/(1+(25/100) = 4.5/(1+0.25) = 4.5/1.25 = 3.6 seconds

Judgement gets pushed back every few cycles, so its effective cooldown without haste is 6.75 seconds, not 6 seconds.

The base HoPo/second generation rate is about 0.426 holy power per second before haste effects.

[Deleted]

i did not know that ty very much wont do anymore, on the other hand you are forgetting the procs of AS with your CS strikes wich will give you around 6 or more procs on a fight, more if you have haste, that takes you on about 56 or more uptime, that plus heroism or BL will get you to that 60 uptime, i love numbers but i just checked something in game and somehow both things we just talked about didnt quite work out idk maybe the ingame cds are not exact or something, ill have to test it on a real fight with buffs and all to come back here and tell you how was it.
ty for the trinket advise too, just bought it.

I mentioned that here.

That fight would have resulted in an average of 8 procs from CS. Lets be nice on the boss and say that he has a perfect 1.5s swing timer getting off 200 hits exactly. Lets also presume that you are tanking the boss for 75% of the time because you are naturally more awesome then the other tank so he lets you tank the boss for a longer period of time.
That means you are recieving 150 hits. Your dodge+parry together may be around 30%, lets say 1/3 for ease giving you 50 dodges/parries~, which would result in another 4 procs. Now this is all being nice and all.

So that would add up to 12 HoPo give or take a few. Which seems reasonable checking my own logs, got 6 HoPo from GC during a 3 min kill and 24 during a 9 minute kill where I was tanking multiple mobs 100% of the time.
So that 12 HoPo would add another 4% uptime bumping you up to 54.66%. Now this is still presuming 100% perfect play.

Basically, at 0% haste, it is mathematically impossible to get more than 50.66% uptime on SotR on a 5 minute fight with HA talented without counting GC procs. Even with extreme luck on procs, GC won't push you above 58%. About 54-55% uptime is reasonable with 100% perfect play, HA and 0 haste. Of course, different fight lenghts may provide different uptimes due to HA usage.
60% is just impossible unless you get more than double the amount of GC procs you should have.

And yes, what Butler said.

Basically since you are prioritsing J below CS (or should for HoPo generation), every third cycle J will clash with CS. To demonstrate.

CS-J-X
CS-X-J
CS-X-X
- At this point both CS and Judgement off cooldown, however you use CS over J, effectively delaying every second judgement by 1.5 seconds, giving Judgement an effective cooldown of 6+1.5/2, or 6.75 seconds.

[Nairobi]

Oops, took a nap when I got home, but yes, what I mentioned (now almost a page ago) is what has been brought up by Butler and Firefly; you just can't exceed ~52-53% uptime without haste (or REALLY good luck with DivPurp).

As for other topics, you really should 1) run as ret, 2) use ret rolls on worthwhile bosses, or 3) at least get Ret-ish gear where you can. You seem bright enough, and will go much further once you actually use the tools in the spec's kit (Sanctity of Battle) that give it some oomph. And then, once you get some moderate levels of haste, DivPurp will overtake other talent choices in terms of DPS and ShotR uptime, due to haste's interaction with the DivPurp mechanism. At current heroic gear levels, I've seen some parses with people in the 70-80% uptime ranges.

[Kalmah]

Aren't you forgetting to account for BL and haste buff in raid?

[Deleted]

Not accounting for BL. So add maybe 2-3% uptime Raid haste buffs doesnt give increased HoPo generation as our spells GCD do not scale with spell haste, and the melee haste buff only affect your melee weapon swings.

---------- Post added 2013-05-14 at 12:01 AM ----------

At current heroic gear levels, I've seen some parses with people in the 70-80% uptime ranges.

Heroic? Pssshh Can almost do that in LFR gear level! With some luck. With BiS LFR, I think reaching 70% reliably should be rather easy. Seeing as I was reaching above that in far from optimal gear, hey, shitty drops, no sockets, no haste, what to do? :/ And far from expertise cap
At full heroic gear levels, 80-85% should not be impossible with a bit lucky procs. Just some simple maths put 74% reachable with DivPurp at 40% haste without even accounting for GC procs from avoidance and bloodlust. Add GC procs and you have about 77%, add the bloodlust and hey, above 80%. However the Mistress of RNG would probably make that 75-85%.

At 50% haste it is about 79% uptime before bl and avoidance GC.

Now just random thinking here I know, but pvp 4p, and voila, 100% uptime

[Promdates]

I'm using AskMrRobot to gear, but it wants we to take the prot 4 set. So badly, apparently, that it wants me to take the dodge/parry T15 prot chest over the exp/haste T15 ret chest. Is the 4 set really THAT valuable?

Are you doing 10s or 25? If you're doing 10s, don't worry about the 4p, as it won't be a deal breaker for you at all. If you're doing 25H, the 4P bonus can be a huge boon at times. There have been times on Horridon that I've gone from 1 HoPo after a SotR to 5 HoPo from a Triple Puncture. I personally use the ret chest for now, but when we get through more heroics, I'll probably pick up tank chest and use the offspec HTF pants.

Basically, if raid = 10 ignore tier. if raid = 25, tier isn't bad depending on playstyle.

[Tax]

Basically, if raid = 10 ignore tier. if raid = 25, tier isn't bad depending on playstyle.

So im not crazy looking to turn in my tokens for the ret helm and ret chest? Just coined them both tonight and the haste looks nice.

[Deleted]

So im not crazy looking to turn in my tokens for the ret helm and ret chest? Just coined them both tonight and the haste looks nice.

prot helm/shoulders are the ones to use if you want 2 set, ret chest is very sexy though

[Nairobi]

Not accounting for BL. So add maybe 2-3% uptime Raid haste buffs doesnt give increased HoPo generation as our spells GCD do not scale with spell haste, and the melee haste buff only affect your melee weapon swings.

---------- Post added 2013-05-14 at 12:01 AM ----------



Heroic? Pssshh Can almost do that in LFR gear level! With some luck. With BiS LFR, I think reaching 70% reliably should be rather easy. Seeing as I was reaching above that in far from optimal gear, hey, shitty drops, no sockets, no haste, what to do? :/ And far from expertise cap
At full heroic gear levels, 80-85% should not be impossible with a bit lucky procs. Just some simple maths put 74% reachable with DivPurp at 40% haste without even accounting for GC procs from avoidance and bloodlust. Add GC procs and you have about 77%, add the bloodlust and hey, above 80%. However the Mistress of RNG would probably make that 75-85%.

At 50% haste it is about 79% uptime before bl and avoidance GC.

Now just random thinking here I know, but pvp 4p, and voila, 100% uptime

If you can stay at heroic gear haste levels with 4 pc's of PVP gear (only 2 have native haste, btw), I'd be quite shocked. Since elite is only cosmetic, PVP gear is capped at 496 ilvl of stats, so you're basically working with LAST tier's gear instead of 522/535/541 stat allocations.

Not that I'm BIS or anything, but I'm only pushing ~15k haste currently @ 527 ilvl. A few pieces I can swap and get up to probably 18k, but that's still only <40% no? Granted I still opt to cap expertise, though.

But, yes given lucky proc's or RNG, you can see a std dev of probably 10% either way on uptime; I just make my comments/numbers from the static values to prevent/account for those events. I don't ever want to assume or rely on good (or bad) RNG, although I am aware of it. Same goes for lust, as I don't want to plan/gear around that. But that's my preference/style.

TL;DR - by my count, 75% would be the upper bound for this tier, 85%+ next tier.

[Deleted]

If you can stay at heroic gear haste levels with 4 pc's of PVP gear (only 2 have native haste, btw), I'd be quite shocked. Since elite is only cosmetic, PVP gear is capped at 496 ilvl of stats, so you're basically working with LAST tier's gear instead of 522/535/541 stat allocations.

I was mostly talking about the next tier, not this tier.

---------- Post added 2013-05-14 at 07:48 PM ----------

TL;DR - by my count, 75% would be the upper bound for this tier, 85%+ next tier.

Well, I have as I mentioned seen above 75% on fights that are purely tank and spank, and that is at around 11 expertise and 33% haste. 80+% shouldnt not be impossible to reach with BiS gear, especially with gear upgrades coming soon. Reaching hit+exp cap and close to 50% haste should be very possible.

[Nairobi]

Well, I have as I mentioned seen above 75% on fights that are purely tank and spank, and that is at around 11 expertise and 33% haste.

Soooo....Tortos and Durumu? Even Durumu (heroic, anyway) has other stuff to do, like ice walls. Granted I let our ele sham nuke those, but still. Could make a case for Horridon, but even then he's going to be at the door/OOR for some time.

I guess my point is, there are few "tank and spank" encounters this tier (which is great!), which will obviously skew uptimes.

Again why I like HA so much, with time off of boss as high as it is this tier.

[Deleted]

I guess my point is, there are few "tank and spank" encounters this tier (which is great!), which will obviously skew uptimes.

Well, that was kinda my point aswell. Just checking uptime "Hurr durr I only had 65% uptime", yeah but you spent a large part of the fight running between platforms, being stunned in an RP or whatever. So your actual uptime is harder. So checking uptimes on a fight that is not 100% tank and spank is not really that great. Sadly there is not that many tank and spanks that you can check the uptimes on!

[Nairobi]

NO YOU!

On a related note, going to run almost exclusively DP this week's reset and compare to last month's logs. Small sample size is small, but I've not gotten any new gear in like 5 weeks, so I need something to look at/tweak/inspect. Still will run HA for tailor-made fights like Horridon, but I suppose I will start treading on the dark side.

[Deleted]

DP is not the dark side, SW is the dark side.












Come over to the dark side.
We have free cookies

[Lethora]

Well, I have as I mentioned seen above 75% on fights that are purely tank and spank, and that is at around 11 expertise and 33% haste. 80+% shouldnt not be impossible to reach with BiS gear, especially with gear upgrades coming soon. Reaching hit+exp cap and close to 50% haste should be very possible.

How the hell are people doing that?
I'm usually around 60-65%, and I have hard-capped exp and 35% haste.
Although I have a bad habit of treating ShoR as on-gcd ability and missing fillers between J and CS, but that shouldn't affect ShoR uptime, should it?