[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[Nairobi]

Going through the items, if I went for only 2pT15 (helm/shoulder, with ret tier chest, primo gloves/durumu pants) and stacked haste in everything unbuffed it'd be around 20,694. With haste pot it's 21,444. Still about 1,056 away from the 50% haste cap. Which is about 47.65% Still rather close.

Remember, it's 450 haste = 1%, which is 22,500 for 50%.

What about H TF Tortos shoulders and DA helm instead of tier?

And I thought it was 21250? So confused...

[Deleted]

Going through the items, if I went for only 2pT15 (helm/shoulder, with ret tier chest, primo gloves/durumu pants) and stacked haste in everything unbuffed it'd be around 20,694. With haste pot it's 21,444. Still about 1,056 away from the 50% haste cap. Which is about 47.65% Still rather close.

Remember, it's 450 haste = 1%, which is 22,500 for 50%.

Is it not 425 haste for 1%?

[DrDreads]

...it is 21250, its 425 haste = 1%. And yes 50% haste is easily achievable this tier, sitting at 542ilvl with haste food/elixir I'm only 71 haste off a perfect 21250, however I till get a 3s CD on CS and a 4s CD on judge, the only two abilities that need the little extra haste are cons and HW (which are sitting at 6.1s CD).

[Promdates]

What about H TF Tortos shoulders and DA helm instead of tier?

And I thought it was 21250? So confused...

You could go for that I guess, but if it's 21250, then using the 2pT15 along with the Haste elixir is still better imo than using the other two items. Cause honestly, what consumables are you using... stamina flask? Personally, I've been using Haste/Armor elixirs for everything and will probably continue to do so unless I DESPERATELY need that extra 27k health?

edit: I know for sure I corrected someone to 425 earlier in the thread. Might have had a brainfart this morning! My bad.

[Nairobi]

I'm still missing a few pieces to make it doable (and still using 2pc as well, just 'cause), so it doesn't really affect me. The joys of 10m loot, where TF isn't real, and conq tokens don't exist.

Honestly, I usually use a STR flask or the 500 stats "flask" tbh.

[trystero]

Do you guys tank on any other characters at raid-level? I've played them at 85 (bear, DK, warrior) but not at all this expansion, so my knowledge is limited.

I was trying to convince my friend to not stack avoidance (for prot paladin) and the argument I used was damage presentation. As part of the argument I showed him my logs, where it'd read something like,

Horridon hits Trystero for 62411
Seal of Insight heals Trystero for 34114
Beacon of Light heals Trystero for 30011

My point was that avoiding attacks doesn't matter much if you're mitigating them instead - and this was on 25H, the hardest hitting content in the game. For us it should be rare to take a full swing, what with SotR, SS, and external/internal CDs, and from just random heals we'll be back to full in no time.

Anyway, it got me looking into other classes, and what I saw was that they were often taking big damage. I looked at a warrior, whose game I respect, and I saw him taking 250-300k melee swings constantly. The same for a DK. Haven't looked at druids or monks yet.

Here's my question:

Is this a L2P issue or are paladins just built to take considerably smoother damage than other classes? As I don't play any of these classes at raid-level, I don't know if the problem is that my fellow tanks are doing a poor job mitigating damage or if their classes don't allow them the same level of mitigation which we have -in which case, their class must offer them some tools to compensate. The one I can think of straight away is a DK's bloated health pool. Are these tools enough, or is SotR actually OP?

[Nairobi]

A well played paladin is markedly smoother than pretty much anything else. ShotR IS that good, and only helped by haste and SS/SOI. Add in debuff clearing, and it's even more apparent.

I tank on my DK for alt raid, and am pretty capable on him. He's only ~515ish (we raid maybe once a month on alts) but I can say that it is FAR more spiky most of the time. Things like Talon Rake/Trip Punc hit for full damage every time (as in, not mitigated 50% off the top). If I don't have a meaty shield to chew through, it's a pretty massive hit. Unlike the paladin, there is no short term massive redux to put up, outside of a shield. You can game the shields (and time them intelligently) but it's nothing like a ShotR+SS mitigated hit.

DK's have a decent personal toolkit, with VB/sac, pact, and tap. Worms are meh, as they never seem to happen when needed, and border on 90%+ overheal. No raid cooldown at all minus a VERY gimp AMZ (at the cost of Purg!), unless you cound AotD for add stuffs. They're also stellar for cheesing debuffs with AMS, but Paladin's win that war. They're also very good at tank swaps, with a built up shield on taunt, I have ~1.6mil HP. What sucks, is that our mastery is penalized by the MS effects, so things like Durumu which reduces healing also reduce our shield size

I've also got my monk, druid and warrior at cap and play them in 5mans and stuff, but CBA to gear them all up. Though, honestly, I may just focus on the monk going forward, as they playstyle is amazing, they feel very "paladin-ish" in terms of "rotation", stat priority, self/raid buffing and overall utility. They're the only class atm that really gives a paladin a good run in terms of "OP tank".

Can't really comment on warrior/druid; they've got decent AM, but I don't really like the way rage-tanks play this expansion. Since that's a personal feeling and anecdotal, I won't pass it off as a thing, just throwing it out there.

[Nillo]

They're also stellar for cheesing debuffs with AMS, but Paladin's win that war.

Except for Animus HC - AMS is easily the best reset here.

What sucks, is that our mastery is penalized by the MS effects, so things like Durumu which reduces healing also reduce our shield size

Not true. Blood Shield is not affected by healing taken buffs or debuffs (except for Scent of Blood)

[Nairobi]

Except for Animus HC - AMS is easily the best reset here.

Right, so you're looking at JinRohk and DA HC which allow for more frequent resets of debuffs by DK's than Paladins (even though Pal's can still reset/cheese those as well). However, looking at Horridon, JiKun, Durumu, Qon, and even Twins and LS, Paladins fare better; thats why I said "they're great at cheesing debuffs, but Paladins win the war".

Not true. Blood Shield is not affected by healing taken buffs or debuffs (except for Scent of Blood)

Thanks, good to know. I guess I just assumed that the SOB reduction was applied globally. I don't play DK often enough I guess

[Sunnydee]

no1 commented on the revert of SS talent? do we like or hate?

[celinamuna]

Right, so you're looking at JinRohk and DA HC which allow for more frequent resets of debuffs by DK's than Paladins (even though Pal's can still reset/cheese those as well). However, looking at Horridon, JiKun, Durumu, Qon, and even Twins and LS, Paladins fare better; thats why I said "they're great at cheesing debuffs, but Paladins win the war".

Except on those fights you don't need a paladin tank, it's slightly more convenient, but it can be done by a ret/holy.
This is like trying to argue that Mage dps is > warlock dps because mage can pop lust.

edit :
Sanctified Wrath
Protection: Now causes Judgment to generate 2 Holy Power instead of 1 while Avenging Wrath is active.

Praise the jebus

[Deleted]

yip SW scales with haste again - looks tasty, will probably use

---------- Post added 2013-07-02 at 09:37 AM ----------

no1 commented on the revert of SS talent? do we like or hate?

like that we still keeping the ability

guess slightly disappointed that we're not getting another cd that we dont actually need to replace it in that tier in addition to having it baseline. we defo need buffs! :P

[Deleted]

Except on those fights you don't need a paladin tank, it's slightly more convenient, but it can be done by a ret/holy.
This is like trying to argue that Mage dps is > warlock dps because mage can pop lust.

edit :
Sanctified Wrath
Protection: Now causes Judgment to generate 2 Holy Power instead of 1 while Avenging Wrath is active.

Praise the jebus

Yeah, that change is great for SW. Covered that on some earlier page but basically it now gives about 4 seconds longer SotR coverage than HA does.

[MerinPally]

Oh god I've got so much updating to do looking at these 5.4 notes

[Deleted]

Yeah, that change is great for SW. Covered that on some earlier page but basically it now gives about 4 seconds longer SotR coverage than HA does.

It still won't beat DP, though, will it?

[Deleted]

It still won't beat DP, though, will it?

Not in terms of SotR uptime, not even close. Pretty much same story as it has always been. DP vs SW/HA is a matter of constant increase of uptime vs a cooldown

[Nairobi]

Not in terms of SotR uptime, not even close. Pretty much same story as it has always been. DP vs SW/HA is a matter of constant increase of uptime vs a cooldown

Depending on the final values of CDR%, we'll see AW at ~2mins if the values are accurate @39%. So, that's 30 seconds of "J, CS, ShotR, repeat" every 2 mins, with the bonus healing taken. It's funny, that's close to an HA rotation! Anyhow, wasn't the uptime pretty close with SW + CDR? (As in, within 10%-ish).

It's funny; Blizz says they want to "make on use talents better than their passive counterparts", yet both of our on-use options are now falling short of DP.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Oh god I've got so much updating to do looking at these 5.4 notes

I'm waiting for the patch to be ready for release before writing ANYTHING up.

It's funny; Blizz says they want to "make on use talents better than their passive counterparts", yet both of our on-use options are now falling short of DP.

In over all uptime, maybe. But the only time your uptime actually matters is when you are tanking the boss, and if you are on, say, Jin'rokh and only actually tanking the boss for about 40 seconds of every 120 seconds (he isn't hitting anybody for a quarter of those two minutes), then HA or SW would give you almost 100% uptime when actually being hit.

[Deleted]

Depending on the final values of CDR%, we'll see AW at ~2mins if the values are accurate @39%. So, that's 30 seconds of "J, CS, ShotR, repeat" every 2 mins, with the bonus healing taken. It's funny, that's close to an HA rotation! Anyhow, wasn't the uptime pretty close with SW + CDR? (As in, within 10%-ish).

While the SotR uptime is close, you have to remember the 20% healing taken increase, SW provides about 10% longer uptime than HA, but it also provides 20% healing increase for 30 seconds, and I would also take a guess that it will also provide higher dps now aswell.

[Nillo]

yip SW scales with haste again - looks tasty, will probably use

It also scaled with haste in the last iteration... just sayin.