[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[trystero]

So we finally got around to doing Primordius tonight in semi-earnest (8/13 25 H) and I don't know what it is but I don't see to have a chance to get transformed. By the time my 2nd Horror is down, the third is about to spawn in like 2.8 seconds and I have to sprint to the boss asap. I try to look for pools while I'm tanking the adds but they're all being gobbled up by DPS. And really there aren't many to take to be frank.

What do y'all do on this fight as a raid and as prot? Damage also seems pretty damn ridiculous..

[Deleted]

Yeah getting transformed can be a bastard when you have your co tanks gibbering at you to stop faffing around and take the boss from them .

The raid should help you get transformed before you pick up the boss but you'll have to convince them that it is worth it (it is with tank dps being generally higher then a dps's).

I tank the boss second in our 25m and start hunting for buffs as I pick up the first big ooze, hope to have one or two by the time the second big ooze is out and desparately scrabble about trying to find the remaining before the raid gets too snarky at me. Good luck . (oh and yay ring dropped for me last night too!)

P.S. using 3 tanks (the third solely to safely pick up errant big oozes as they spawn to pass to the other tank is win)

[siccora]

I have a question towards T15 2 piece set and Divine Purpose. Do i use word of glory every time i have 1 stack of holy power to have 40% chance of block and the chance of a divine purpose proc?

[Kortane]

I have a question towards T15 2 piece set and Divine Purpose. Do i use word of glory every time i have 1 stack of holy power to have 40% chance of block and the chance of a divine purpose proc?

No. T15 2pc isn't something you should seek to always have up. It's nice, but not THAT nice. Think of it more as an extra bonus for casting WoG.

It CAN be good on certain fights, like with lots of adds. But it's by no means necessary.

As for casting 1HP WoG, I wouldn't. Divine Purpose proc chance scales with the amount of HP you spend. If you spend 3HP, it has a 25% proc chance. If you spend 1HP, it only has ~8% chance to proc. It's not worth fishing for DP procs by casting a 1HP WoG.

[MerinPally]

I have a question towards T15 2 piece set and Divine Purpose. Do i use word of glory every time i have 1 stack of holy power to have 40% chance of block and the chance of a divine purpose proc?

As Kortane said - nope. It merely reduces the penalty for using WoG. There are occasionally fights where you may want to use it tactically at very certain times but the damage reduction from SHOTR is guaranteed, the damage reduction from the block isn't and you may take absolutely no less damage than you would if you hadn't cast anything at all.

[Deleted]

Judgment being 12% base mana concerns me. What did they end up with on our mana gain? 15%/2 sec?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Judgment being 12% base mana concerns me. What did they end up with on our mana gain? 15%/2 sec?

That change was only for Holy specced characters.

[Deleted]

That change was only for Holy specced characters.

Are you sure?

Good in that case.

[MerinPally]

That change was only for Holy specced characters.

You sure? On the notes on the frontpage it's under general paladin rather than just holy, although there are some Holy-only changes.

But yes our mana gain is 15%/2

[Kortane]

Well, the official notes from July 29th say "Judgment for Holy Paladins now costs 12% of base mana to cast (up from 5% of base mana)".

It could have changed since then, but I wouldn't see why they would up the mana cost for prot/ret. I wouldn't panic!

[pld]

So we finally got around to doing Primordius tonight in semi-earnest (8/13 25 H) and I don't know what it is but I don't see to have a chance to get transformed. By the time my 2nd Horror is down, the third is about to spawn in like 2.8 seconds and I have to sprint to the boss asap. I try to look for pools while I'm tanking the adds but they're all being gobbled up by DPS. And really there aren't many to take to be frank.

What do y'all do on this fight as a raid and as prot? Damage also seems pretty damn ridiculous..

10M here, but we have a Boomkin who's only job for 80% of the fight is to kill Oozes. He does crazy DPS on multi-add fights so he kills oozes for healers and tanks (and slow DPS).

Primo seems kinda RNG-y, because there are times when there are a lot of oozes towards the middle (where I tank the Horror) for me to kill myself, but other times it's full of purple death. We have our ranged swap to the Horror so I usually just taunt the Horror, smack it a few times and try to find pools to walk over/oozes to kill and then swap back to the Horror. Speed of Light was very helpful for this fight.

Damage can get a bit high towards the end of the fight, which is why we have our healers get transformed quickly with the Boomkin's help.

[Sunnydee]

just wanted to share a thought of mine... anyone else wishes that sanctity of battle will be removed from prot, we get baseline CD of 1.5 again on CS and judge and actually use tanking stats?

i guess it never ever is gonna happen but yeah :s

[Deleted]

just wanted to share a thought of mine... anyone else wishes that sanctity of battle will be removed from prot, we get baseline CD of 1.5 again on CS and judge and actually use tanking stats?

i guess it never ever is gonna happen but yeah :s

I can't think of anyone who'd want that? Scaling with haste is the best change they've ever made to tanking. You can actually feel you get stronger the better geared you get. And you're in control of your own survival.

You just need to change your mindset regarding tank stats. Haste is a tank stat now.

Hopefully and rather likely it'll go the other way and D/P will be removed from gear and instead be merged with 'offensive' stats so that all tanks can scale properly.

[Deleted]

just wanted to share a thought of mine... anyone else wishes that sanctity of battle will be removed from prot, we get baseline CD of 1.5 again on CS and judge and actually use tanking stats?

i guess it never ever is gonna happen but yeah :s

I hope this was a joke.... right?? o_O

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

just wanted to share a thought of mine... anyone else wishes that sanctity of battle will be removed from prot, we get baseline CD of 1.5 again on CS and judge and actually use tanking stats?

i guess it never ever is gonna happen but yeah :s

I think you are on your own with that.

Although a 1.5 second cooldown on CS and J would get us 100% uptime on ShoR out of the box, making us the most robust tanks in the game.

[Deleted]

just wanted to share a thought of mine... anyone else wishes that sanctity of battle will be removed from prot, we get baseline CD of 1.5 again on CS and judge and actually use tanking stats?

i guess it never ever is gonna happen but yeah :s

I would stop playing paladin then. Imo paladin rotation is unplayable above 1.25s GCD, to be fair, I am not sure I would be able to play at above 1.15s GCD now.

I see 0 actual benefit of going back into tanking stats, could you ellaborate what you think would be better going back to the "traditional" tanking stats?

[Deleted]

I think you are on your own with that.

Although a 1.5 second cooldown on CS and J would get us 100% uptime on ShoR out of the box, making us the most robust tanks in the game.

And we would have the most complex rotation!

JJJJJJJJJ, maybe wave in some GC procs....

PS: And mandatory Double Jeopardy Glyph!

[Sunnydee]

I would stop playing paladin then. Imo paladin rotation is unplayable above 1.25s GCD, to be fair, I am not sure I would be able to play at above 1.15s GCD now.

I see 0 actual benefit of going back into tanking stats, could you ellaborate what you think would be better going back to the "traditional" tanking stats?

Guessing its the bolded part thats crawling in me. traditional, lorewise. logic. if you consider what a tank is then you'd prefer to avoid damage as much as possible.

the benefit? well, im guessing lootwise it could be benefitial. dont know how much d/p-mastery geared we disenchanted this expansion. but sure is alot, while slightly holding dps back since start of this tier for ex prot palas " atleast for us" almost got prio on dps items with haste on cuz we pushed out such dmg /heal that the tanks damage and healing actually helped progress more then the dps.

I know it might sound bizarre in all but imao a tank should use tank stats, and no, saying "druids and monks dosnt need it", well there havent really been a leather item with dodge on since TBC. also they gain "tank stats" via agility same way we gain from str.

[rhandric]

Guessing its the bolded part thats crawling in me. traditional, lorewise. logic. if you consider what a tank is then you'd prefer to avoid damage as much as possible.

the benefit? well, im guessing lootwise it could be benefitial. dont know how much d/p-mastery geared we disenchanted this expansion. but sure is alot, while slightly holding dps back since start of this tier for ex prot palas " atleast for us" almost got prio on dps items with haste on cuz we pushed out such dmg /heal that the tanks damage and healing actually helped progress more then the dps.

I know it might sound bizarre in all but imao a tank should use tank stats, and no, saying "druids and monks dosnt need it", well there havent really been a leather item with dodge on since TBC. also they gain "tank stats" via agility same way we gain from str.

Tanks do use tank stats. Haste just happens to be a tank stat. Oh wait, did you mean tank only stats? Then I guess we should remove stam from non-tank gear, and str/agi from tank gear, and who knows about hit/exp, so that there's no overlap between tank stats and non-tank stats.

Unless you're suggesting that all tanks should use the same stats, to which I'll say, druids and monks...and, homogenization.

[Nairobi]

just wanted to share a thought of mine... anyone else wishes that sanctity of battle will be removed from prot, we get baseline CD of 1.5 again on CS and judge and actually use tanking stats?

i guess it never ever is gonna happen but yeah :s

Yeah....no. Not anyone wishes that except for some butthurt DPS on the PTR forums who whine about ERMAGERD TANK DEEPZZ.

Really, really, REALLY hope it never ever happens. Ever.




EVER.

Guessing its the bolded part thats crawling in me. traditional, lorewise. logic. if you consider what a tank is then you'd prefer to avoid damage as much as possible.

the benefit? well, im guessing lootwise it could be benefitial. dont know how much d/p-mastery geared we disenchanted this expansion. but sure is alot, while slightly holding dps back since start of this tier for ex prot palas " atleast for us" almost got prio on dps items with haste on cuz we pushed out such dmg /heal that the tanks damage and healing actually helped progress more then the dps.

I know it might sound bizarre in all but imao a tank should use tank stats, and no, saying "druids and monks dosnt need it", well there havent really been a leather item with dodge on since TBC. also they gain "tank stats" via agility same way we gain from str.

Tradition is a funny thing. It's like religion or customs or anything else that is a kind of unspoken, unproven, generally accepted by some/most "rule" of the way things should be. It's also usually very outdated and looks completely foolish to someone who wasn't raised/born in that same society.

What I'm saying is that taking a giant leap back (and it would be a GIANT one), for no reason other than "lollore" is foolish. As a tank, we ALREADY are avoiding damage, we're just doing it BETTER than we could with the "traditional" gear. You can't plan around avoidance. You CAN plan AM. That's why we hate avoidance. That's why it's bad, and should feel bad. That's why we want it to go away.

Now, once we get to the point where we are haste capped and have ShotR up ~90-100%, then sure, stack whatever you want. Extra dodge/parry is whatever. Personally, I'll still likely go for a mix of avoidance and throughput, but ONLY taking avoidance because of how it interacts with the new GC.

There is NO benefit to what you're asking. None. Lootwise? Get real. Nobody wants it, and the devs are finally realizing that no matter how much glitter they sprinkle on that shit, it's still shit. Blue post from yesterday "confirms" that 6.0 D/P will be greatly changed/removed. I'm not sure how it holds back raid progression at all, RNG is RNG. There are some shitty loot tables, and t15 was one of them, but t16 looks strong.

And the idea that leather tanks are somehow different than plate tanks is part of this same misconception of tradition. Druids (and monks) haven't been saddled with these shit stats, so they're somehow exempt from them because of tradition? No. They have a great way of working WITH innate "good" stats to affect their AM and actual avoidance (via SD/Shuffle) to make the act of avoiding things a more visceral experience, while not depending on utter shit RNG from stacking avoidnace secondaries. We FINALLY see a movement to this more intelligent, skillful and fun system for ALL tanks, and people lose their shit.

I don't get it.

This isn't directed at you, specifically (as I know you're smarter than this), but I really don't know which sounds more stupid: the people who lobby for why Dodge and Parry are fun/engaging/interesting stats that deserve to stick around and clutter up our loot table, or their reasoning on WHY.