1. #4701
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    That spreadsheet is for HC so just tamper with the variables to set it for Normal
    <Judge> Alonsus-EU. 6/8M Uldir
    Prot Paladin
    RECRUITING FOR BFA!

  2. #4702
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    That spreadsheet is for HC so just tamper with the variables to set it for Normal
    Ahh alright, thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  3. #4703
    Deleted
    This was probably discusses in this thread already but: How would you rank the 4p and how many procs do you usually haver per fight? I suppose it's a 10-20% increase of the SotR uptime, is that right?
    I'm curious if I should consider switching hc offset shoulders and warforged helm to nhc set items.

  4. #4704
    Quote Originally Posted by ot4ku-mh View Post
    This was probably discusses in this thread already but: How would you rank the 4p and how many procs do you usually haver per fight? I suppose it's a 10-20% increase of the SotR uptime, is that right?
    I'm curious if I should consider switching hc offset shoulders and warforged helm to nhc set items.
    For me i use it every 30 sec, generally in that time i can get 6-7 depending on AS procs. (I think, never really noticed tbh)
    So it would be 1/7th to 1/6th increase in uptime, however at this point i would consider going for more secondaries into crit.

  5. #4705
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    <snip>
    regarding that thok's vs horridon's math, I have only horridon normal, which is 1581 haste, and thok normal, which is 7.5427 haste.
    taking that math, that magic number x would be 20960 - which is below the cap.

    do I understand it correctly, that if I reach 20961 or more haste WITH horridon's (and without thok's), switching to thok's instead of horridon's is a gain, right? or is this only true if I would have 20961 with thok's and without horridon's, which, in that case, would still be over cap?

  6. #4706
    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    regarding that thok's vs horridon's math, I have only horridon normal, which is 1581 haste, and thok normal, which is 7.5427 haste.
    taking that math, that magic number x would be 20960 - which is below the cap.

    do I understand it correctly, that if I reach 20961 or more haste WITH horridon's (and without thok's), switching to thok's instead of horridon's is a gain, right? or is this only true if I would have 20961 with thok's and without horridon's, which, in that case, would still be over cap?
    No. Since when switching you're loosing all of that extra haste. The magic number is how much haste you need when you equip the thok to hit the softcap.
    In your version once you switch from thok from horridon you're losing all of the haste of horridons.
    So you need 20960 haste on all of your gear when you equip thok.

  7. #4707
    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    regarding that thok's vs horridon's math, I have only horridon normal, which is 1581 haste, and thok normal, which is 7.5427 haste.
    taking that math, that magic number x would be 20960 - which is below the cap.

    do I understand it correctly, that if I reach 20961 or more haste WITH horridon's (and without thok's), switching to thok's instead of horridon's is a gain, right? or is this only true if I would have 20961 with thok's and without horridon's, which, in that case, would still be over cap?
    Don't forget that Thok's also increases your mastery by 7.5%, which is also not a negligible effect.

  8. #4708
    ....and crit damage/healing which is also nice to have.

  9. #4709
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    No. Since when switching you're loosing all of that extra haste. The magic number is how much haste you need when you equip the thok to hit the softcap.
    In your version once you switch from thok from horridon you're losing all of the haste of horridons.
    So you need 20960 haste on all of your gear when you equip thok.
    which does not really make sense, does it? because the hardcap w/o thok is 21250, and with 20960 + thok my haste would be somewhere at 22500, aka way over cap.
    I am confused.

    and yes I know, thok most likely is superior because it's not only haste, it's mastery and crithealing as well, +the proc is stronger. but for the haste math I can't quite follow what it means. But I guess, in the end it's not really important anymore, once I hit the hard cap with thok and without horridon, I can safely bank horridons.

  10. #4710
    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    which does not really make sense, does it? because the hardcap w/o thok is 21250, and with 20960 + thok my haste would be somewhere at 22500, aka way over cap.
    I am confused.

    and yes I know, thok most likely is superior because it's not only haste, it's mastery and crithealing as well, +the proc is stronger. but for the haste math I can't quite follow what it means. But I guess, in the end it's not really important anymore, once I hit the hard cap with thok and without horridon, I can safely bank horridons.
    How does that not make sense ? Up untill 20960 Spark provides more haste, after it, thok provides more haste.

  11. #4711
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    How does that not make sense ? Up untill 20960 Spark provides more haste, after it, thok provides more haste.
    The point is that at 20960 haste thok puts you way above the haste cap so even if point for point Thok gives you less haste prior to that point, a good chunk of that haste will be 'wasted' since it'll put you way above the cap.

  12. #4712
    I have a question about Paladins. I never played one so i want to know. My guild's second tank is a port paladin with 565ilvl but he does only 100k damage. Is this normal for a paladin? Never looked at other paladins damage before.

  13. #4713
    Quote Originally Posted by Lintwar View Post
    I have a question about Paladins. I never played one so i want to know. My guild's second tank is a port paladin with 565ilvl but he does only 100k damage. Is this normal for a paladin? Never looked at other paladins damage before.
    Without context a sensible answer is not possible. In 10N I am doing around that number most of the fights. Our prot warrior is way ahead of me especially when there are adds ( sha ). When I look at logs of higher ranking paladins they are most of the time tanking for more time of the fight or are solo tanking entirely which nets you much more vengeance and therefor damage.

    On the other hand I would say tank damage should be the last point to look for as long as you are killing bosses. I strive to do more myself. But doing our primary job of staying alive and somewhat controlling the fight is more important. If your tank is good enough with that part then he can try to do more damage. Which depends on vengeance after all. Whithout it you can throw wet noodles at the boss to have the same effect.
    Last edited by Feuerbart; 2013-11-25 at 10:28 AM.

  14. #4714
    Quote Originally Posted by Drool View Post
    Without context a sensible answer is not possible. In 10N I am doing around that number most of the fights. Our prot warrior is way ahead of me especially when there are adds ( sha ). When I look at logs of higher ranking paladins they are most of the time tanking for more time of the fight or are solo tanking entirely which nets you much more vengeance and therefor damage.

    On the other hand I would say tank damage should be the last point to look for as long as you are killing bosses. I strive to do more myself. But doing our primary job of staying alive and somewhat controlling the fight is more important. If your tank is good enough with that part then he can try to do more damage. Which depends on vengeance after all. Whithout it you can throw wet noodles at the boss to have the same effect.
    Thx for this. Sorry and needed to give more information with my question. He is solo tanking Wavebinder Kardris on 10M HC. don't know if that change anything?

  15. #4715
    Quote Originally Posted by ot4ku-mh View Post
    This was probably discusses in this thread already but: How would you rank the 4p and how many procs do you usually haver per fight? I suppose it's a 10-20% increase of the SotR uptime, is that right?
    I'm curious if I should consider switching hc offset shoulders and warforged helm to nhc set items.
    The 4p is probably the best thing there is, especially with the WoG glyph. I use the 4p proc every chance I have to refresh the glyph.
    During Paragons of the Klaxxi Heroic I had a SotR uptime of 86.5% as well as a ~50% uptime of the WoG glyph, according to WoG.

  16. #4716
    Quote Originally Posted by Lintwar View Post
    Thx for this. Sorry and needed to give more information with my question. He is solo tanking Wavebinder Kardris on 10M HC. don't know if that change anything?
    Wait why do you have the pally on Kardris and the warrior on the melee guy o0?

    - Pally has shitty aoe for the adds
    - Pally has great tools to support heal on the melee guy
    - Warrior has spell reflect for Kardris
    - Warrior has better aoe for the blobs

  17. #4717
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Wait why do you have the pally on Kardris and the warrior on the melee guy o0?

    - Pally has shitty aoe for the adds
    - Pally has great tools to support heal on the melee guy
    - Warrior has spell reflect for Kardris
    - Warrior has better aoe for the blobs
    I guess the warrior can disarm Haromm...

  18. #4718
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Wait why do you have the pally on Kardris and the warrior on the melee guy o0?

    - Pally has shitty aoe for the adds
    - Pally has great tools to support heal on the melee guy
    - Warrior has spell reflect for Kardris
    - Warrior has better aoe for the blobs
    DOnt know why, i just follow rl orders i'm happy to tank the melee guy.

  19. #4719
    Quote Originally Posted by Lintwar View Post
    DOnt know why, i just follow rl orders i'm happy to tank the melee guy.
    Tell your raid leader to consider switching you. I tank Haromm and we typically have our DPS DK in blood spec, our fury warrior and a resto shaman up there.

    Hand of Purity on the shaman for the last seconds of Toxic Mist, Hand of Sacrifice for things like Foul Stream & Falling Ash, Eternal Flame ticking on people and one of the 90 talents - all these things are just too useful to pass up, and would be mostly wasted with me tanking the other boss.

  20. #4720
    Quote Originally Posted by Lintwar View Post
    My guild's second tank is a port paladin with 565ilvl but he does only 100k damage. Is this normal for a paladin? Never looked at other paladins damage before.
    Hmm.. that's strange. I usually let our other MT tank a bit longer than I do (he's a bit of a drama queen if he doesn't get enough to do – different story...) which usually results in lower vengeance on my part. I'm currently at 42% haste and do about 150-160k dps in 10 man normal. Finally I'd like to add I'm not one of those insane dps-tanks and focus more on avoidance/mitigation than tank damage. Therefore I assume most pallys do more damage than me under normal circumstances.

    These numbers don't apply on aoe-heavy fights with high vengeance (eg. phase 1 Garosh) where I can pull 550k (and even for the complete fight this will not go under 280-330k). Pallys are quite dependent on high vengeance, not only for damage but defensive/healing abilities as well.

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