Obviously people can't have a civilized discussion about this so I'll just go ahead and close it. Many posts here are very close to or unacceptable so when I wake up and have a little bit more time it's likely people will end up being infracted - I do not like PvP vs PvE trolling/wars/whatever may be in the slightest and unless one's argument is really well formed and makes sense I will not cut anyone any slack.