Question about guild restrictions

[rhandric]

Sweet.

Are they concerned what it might do to WvW, or does it not really matter?

I remember in DAoC if someone from the other faction infiltrated your raid group they could create all sorts of problems.

Well, WvW isn't intended to be balanced, so if it does have an impact (which I find unlikely) it won't be a big deal. I can see some guilds having a "Home server only" policy, so you can only join if you're from that server, in hopes of preventing that. In general, though, cross-realm servers will mostly matter to people who want to join a guild with friends but didn't create characters on the same home server. Of course, you might join a cross-realm server if you meet someone in a dungeon/sPvP that you enjoyed playing with.

[rhinomatic]

I remember it getting so bad on Guinevere that no matter what keep you were after in the Hibernian frontier, the Hibs would be there waiting for you to get off the boat. They ALWAYS knew where we were going and it ground RvR to a halt. If we did happen to make it to a keep it was always full of defenders and any siege attempt would be a waste of time. Then we'd go to Albion, and surprise surprise, here comes the Hibernian force right behind us to steamroll us as we're setting up.

The element of surprise is a big part of RvR-style combat, and if there's someone feeding information to the enemy about what the next target is, it makes defending a whole lot easier. That's the concern I have, because I saw what it did in DAoC.

I hope I'm worrying over nothing. Maybe it won't be as big of a deal, because like mentioned before, there are no relics to go after, and when you control the center keep you know you're going to be under attack anyway.

[Osprey39]

I remember it getting so bad on Guinevere that no matter what keep you were after in the Hibernian frontier, the Hibs would be there waiting for you to get off the boat. They ALWAYS knew where we were going and it ground RvR to a halt. If we did happen to make it to a keep it was always full of defenders and any siege attempt would be a waste of time. Then we'd go to Albion, and surprise surprise, here comes the Hibernian force right behind us to steamroll us as we're setting up.

The element of surprise is a big part of RvR-style combat, and if there's someone feeding information to the enemy about what the next target is, it makes defending a whole lot easier. That's the concern I have, because I saw what it did in DAoC.

I hope I'm worrying over nothing. Maybe it won't be as big of a deal, because like mentioned before, there are no relics to go after, and when you control the center keep you know you're going to be under attack anyway.

Well that's what I'm saying. A 'spy' can't follow you into the borderlands if they are from another server so unless they are guilded with you and you're talking about your plans in guild chat or on vent or something. My experience in beta is that most people just talked about WvW on map chat or team chat in that zone. Of course, I wasn't in a real guild so ymmv.

[rhinomatic]

Well that's what I'm saying. A 'spy' can't follow you into the borderlands if they are from another server so unless they are guilded with you and you're talking about your plans in guild chat or on vent or something. My experience in beta is that most people just talked about WvW on map chat or team chat in that zone. Of course, I wasn't in a real guild so ymmv.

Most spies didn't follow the zerg/horde/frolic/whatever you called it around, they just stayed in chat and relayed information. If we called that we were going to hit Crimthain, there would be 80+ Hibs waiting for us at Crimthain.

So all it would take is someone in a guild on a server they're "at war" with to say "Ok, sounds like they're about to hit this keep and they're sending a band out to take this camp," and you can make sure those places are defended.

Granted, DAoC didn't have map chat and hardly anyone was running Vent back then, so it may still be a non-issue. That and it takes significantly less time to reach your destination in GW2 than it did in DAoC, so relaying information may not be efficient enough to matter.

[Kelesti]

How would you "spy" in WvW in the first place? I was almost positive guesting didn't function at all. So they'd pay cash to server transfer, win a match, server transfer back, and still get 0 of the perks/benefits?

[rhinomatic]

Nah, you just relay information to your friends on the enemy server, they act accordingly. You don't get anything for it really, and that would be a turn-off for most people, but considering the lengths you had to go to in DAoC to spy and the number of people who still did it, it wouldn't surprise me to see it happen in WvW.

[Kelesti]

How do you get the information that's worth relaying though, without being a part of the battle? Like, I don't understand the process here.

[rhandric]

Right, but since match-ups (can) change every 2 weeks, the chances of a) being in a guild on the enemy server, b) having that guild be a major force in WvW, and c) making a difference, are small.

[grandpab]

How do you get the information that's worth relaying though, without being a part of the battle? Like, I don't understand the process here.

They'd have to be talking in gchat/vent/etc, but I think you'd really have to have a vendetta against that specific guild to do something like that. Plus it's not like you can just create an alt and sneak into the guild on ONLY your alt, you'd be joining the guild on every one of your characters. That might make it a little easier to figure out who's constantly giving away your location. I don't see much advantage to it in GW2 either, so I just don't see the point...again, unless you just have a vendetta against that guild.

[Osprey39]

How do you get the information that's worth relaying though, without being a part of the battle? Like, I don't understand the process here.

In DAoC they had things called battlegroups which were basically overgrown raid groups. If the owner of these battlegroups didn't make them private, anyone could join them by typing /bg join <name of owner>. As rhinomatic stated, voice chat was still in its infancy back then so almost all information was relayed between various guilds in your realm via the battlegroup chat so basically all a spy had to do was join the battlegroup chat (which you didn't even have to be in the frontiers for) and they would see any pertinent info.

edit: I should have added that things have changed quite a bit since those days and I don't foresee this being even a minor problem in GW2.

[MrSerious]

How do you get the information that's worth relaying though, without being a part of the battle? Like, I don't understand the process here.

I'm not too sure how this would work either. Sure you might be able to get some information out that X is about to attack Y lets get some reinforcements over there. But other than that the map shows whether a place is being attacked, and normally people are already there and can see it for themselves.

"They are attacking X and Y"
"We know, we can see it on the map, thanks for the not-so-hot info, go back to your server now"

[grandpab]

In DAoC they had things called battlegroups which were basically overgrown raid groups. If the owner of these battlegroups didn't make them private, anyone could join them by typing /bg join <name of owner>. As rhinomatic stated, voice chat was still in its infancy back then so almost all information was relayed between various guilds in your realm via the battlegroup chat so basically all a spy had to do was join the battlegroup chat (which you didn't even have to be in the frontiers for) and they would see any pertinent info.

Ah, I forgot about the GW2 squads too...and that wouldn't even require a guild.

[rhinomatic]

Basically if there was a discussion in map chat about the next target, you could give your friends a heads up about that target. They could also relay information to you about where their side was vulnerable.

The main reason I could see people doing this in GW2 is to direct your friends to areas where they had a greater than average chance of success, getting more kills for their effort than they would have otherwise. They in turn give you the same consideration. And these people wouldn't necessarily care if their side won or lost overall since its ultimately all about farming more kills for themselves.

I'm probably worrying for nothing though. Like I said before, the GW2 map is a lot easier to traverse than the DAoC frontiers, and to my knowledge there isn't anything like realm ranks to even farm kills for.

[Osprey39]

Basically if there was a discussion in map chat about the next target, you could give your friends a heads up about that target. They could also relay information to you about where their side was vulnerable.

The main reason I could see people doing this in GW2 is to direct your friends to areas where they had a greater than average chance of success, getting more kills for their effort than they would have otherwise. They in turn give you the same consideration. And these people wouldn't necessarily care if their side won or lost overall since its ultimately all about farming more kills for themselves.

I'm probably worrying for nothing though. Like I said before, the GW2 map is a lot easier to traverse than the DAoC frontiers, and to my knowledge there isn't anything like realm ranks to even farm kills for.

Bolded part is correct. WvW in this game is actually about grabbing and holding control points (supply depots, keeps, castles) which ultimately leads to scoring points for your side. Points for your side is how you win but your side also accrues serverwide buffs as you score more and more points. Kills in WvW really have no bearing on things except for a few achievements.

Now the reason I don't think spying will be an issue is threefold:

1) People guesting on a server cannot particpate in WvW there so they cannot enter the battlegrounds. Most communication occurs in map or team chat so they won't be able to monitor that. The only way you could really spy semi-effectively would be to get in a guild that is discussing EVERYTHING in guild chat or voip.
2) No powerful relics being fought over so no massive relic raids to be on the lookout for.
3) Server matchups change every two weeks so you would have to keep worming your way into new guilds on new servers to attempt to spy.

Basically, those three things add up to spying not being worth the time or effort as far as I'm concerned.

Oh and rhino, I don't know if you did any WvW outside of the Eternal Battlegrounds (center map) but the other three seemed much larger to me than Eternal. Maybe it was just my imagination though.

[rhinomatic]

I never did Eternal Battlegrounds, just the other three. They have decent size, but nothing even comes close to, say, running from Vindsaul Faste to Bledmeer Faste, then hopping on a boat to Dun Cruachon and running to Dun Bolg. That trip would probably have taken close to 15 minutes. Smaller battlefields are better, though, much easier to find a fight.

[Razeo]

I never did Eternal Battlegrounds, just the other three. They have decent size, but nothing even comes close to, say, running from Vindsaul Faste to Bledmeer Faste, then hopping on a boat to Dun Cruachon and running to Dun Bolg. That trip would probably have taken close to 15 minutes. Smaller battlefields are better, though, much easier to find a fight.

I agree with this, I kinda chuckle when people marvel as to how big the WvW maps are. Don't get me wrong, they are pretty big but not even close in size to the old frontier maps in DAoC. And Osprey, when you say that there are no powerful relics to fight over in WvW did you forget abou the power orbs? I know their not really as powerful as relics were in DAoC but it would still give your server a small advantage if you have more than 1.

[Osprey39]

I never did Eternal Battlegrounds, just the other three. They have decent size, but nothing even comes close to, say, running from Vindsaul Faste to Bledmeer Faste, then hopping on a boat to Dun Cruachon and running to Dun Bolg. That trip would probably have taken close to 15 minutes. Smaller battlefields are better, though, much easier to find a fight.

Oh, you're talking New Frontiers. I didn't play nearly as much in NF as I did the original ones and with a skald in those frontiers I could get from our PK to the hib front gates pretty damn quickly.

I agree with this, I kinda chuckle when people marvel as to how big the WvW maps are. Don't get me wrong, they are pretty big but not even close in size to the old frontier maps in DAoC. And Osprey, when you say that there are no powerful relics to fight over in WvW did you forget abou the power orbs? I know their not really as powerful as relics were in DAoC but it would still give your server a small advantage if you have more than 1.

I didn't forget about them, I wasn't aware of them I only became obsessed with this game about the time of the 2nd BWE so I don't know everything yet :P


I've got another question regarding guilds if anyone knows the answer. I originally made this thread because we have a small crew that was going to make a guild and I volunteered to be GM. I also have a really cool idea (I think anyway haha) for a novelty guild that I would also want to be the GM of so that's why I wanted to know if it was possible to GM two guilds. My question now is are they planning to add alliances at some point like in GW1? This secondary guild would probably include several members of the first guild besides myself so if we could keep everyone on a common chat regardless of which guild they were representing, that would be ideal.