Cataclysm has destroyed raiding

[Crazyjoe]

@OP

Blizzard had to make a choice, either try keep everyone content about the game or a special 10% extremely happy about the game. Sure if you were in a decent raiding guild and had the time in burning crusade that will be the peak of this game for you. However for players that don't have skill and hardly any time we can all see the content now through LFR and easy 5 man dungeons.

1% of the game is now made for skilled players where before 20% of the game was made for skilled players.

[Deleted]

Right, here we go.. Ive been playing since start of BC, Ive enjoyed raiding since slow starts in Kara though the end of HC deathwing, all done in 25man guilds.

I would agree with a couple of points made in this thread. The community is in a very bad state atm. In BC the community was a lot stronger and closer together, since you had to find ppl in /2, now you just click a button and you will play with 24 other ppl you dont need to speak to/know them/ever play with them again, it gives people the opportunity to behave like moro*ns too because they will simply not play with anyone from the grp again. If you behaved like a fool way back when noone would ever do stuff with you - a very just punishment - so now the people that behave like *** are running wild with no restrictions...

To raiding - no, I dont think it killed raiding. 25 man guilds are still there, but if you compare it with 10man guilds 25man are surely at a decline, very few if you compare it to prev expansions.

To difficulty - difficulty in DS 10/25man was a joke, there was no fight that was more difficult on 10man (maybe spine HC - but thats about it) believe me, Ive done it first with our 25man progress, then 10man team also.

I believe the 10man concept to be a valid one, yes, but in my opinion it should NEVER ever have same gear/achievements/lockout as 25man, they are both sepparate and they should be viewed as such, I have no idea why Blizz is making us endure this nonsense concept -.-

Separate gear/achives/skins everything would even give every player more motivation to play 10 and 25 both on different ocasions to have it complete, I mean, there is next to no motivation for me to play 10man HC if Im already done on 25man, and vice versa for other people naturally, yet 10man is a different expirience, but imo we are being robbed of it since there is simply nothing to gain there, yes, the content Ive been running for MONTHS now

B

[Deleted]

I know that personally i am very happy with the 10/25 shared lock out as i feel that i am not missing out on raids that i cannot complete as whilst my computor can just about handle 10 man raiding it certainly cannot deal with 25 man raiding (with 0 fps on ultraxoin on low graphics in LRF). why should people who only want to raid with there close friends or simply cant afford a good enough computor to be able to compete in 25 mans be penalised? Blizz are going for a 'everyone can see all content' approach anyway. splitting 25 man and 10 man again would mean we would have lfr, normal nerf, normal prenerf, Hc nerf, hc prenerf and then you would add another 5 tiers of difficulty if it was then harder to do it on 25 man.

---------- Post added 2012-08-01 at 04:40 PM ----------

To difficulty - difficulty in DS 10/25man was a joke, there was no fight that was more difficult on 10man (maybe spine HC - but thats about it) believe me, Ive done it first with our 25man progress, then 10man team also.


B

what you ahve to remember is that once u have done it and learnt the fight it becomes a lot easier. I did 8/8 hc on my hunter, and as a result found it very easy to go through it on my tank as i already knew the fights. and appart from positioning and a few minor tactic alterations there is not much difference between 10- 25 tactics etc. so u can not say that 10 man was easier since u had already pushed through each fight in 25 man and had learnt it. unless u were able to get a group of peopel and run through 25 man hc, then get the same people, witht eh same gear they had before u ran through 25 man and deleted all there memories of having done it in 25 man, then get them to run through it on 10 man. only then could u be able to accuratly be able to analyse which (if any is easier)

[Imnick]

Seems fine to me
10 man represent

[Spotnick]

I don't know why so many people claim 25 man raiding has issues.. on my server at least we have the exact same amount of 25 man guilds than we had in WOTLK. The major difference is people pug 10 man now instead of pugging 25s.

The biggest mistake Blizzard did was not finishing Abyssal Maw and release it at same time as Firelands, and Dragon Soul was too small for the duration it had. Other than that, if you don't enjoy raiding anymore, don't blame it on the expansion, blame it on the fact you played this game for too long and might just need a break.

[Deleted]

Just because cata wasn't as good as the other expansions, doesn't mean it has destroyed 25m... Maybe because of the loot but the game already excists for 7 years... Some people got tired

[Deleted]

than that, if you don't enjoy raiding anymore, don't blame it on the expansion, blame it on the fact you played this game for too long and might just need a break.

This. they have put out 13 different raiding teirs. at this point finding new and exciting raid mechanics is hard! there is no way around it. if u have been raiding for years you will see bosses similar to ones you have seen before. deal with it or move on.

[kendro1200]

I heard this same statement at the start of cata. Except is was about wrath. Once mists is no longer new, everyone will be preaching about how great cata was. I've been playing since vanilla. This is said at the end of every xpac...

Except no one is expecting MoP to fix anything, because well, it isn't, it's progressing along the same line of thought that was started in T13. If anyone looks back at Cata raiding and says how awesome it was, well they obviously didn't raid prior to that xpack, so they don't know any better.

[Azurenys]

You heard at the beginning of wotlk that 25s had problems because of 10 man groups ? I do not remember that to any extent and have to call bs.

Keep calling whatever you want and living in that hole of yours.

He was talking about the END of the expansions.

Search some old topics on google while you're at it, it was the EXACT same thing back in the end of WOTLK. You suddenly don't remember when 10 and 25 were merged??? /facepalm

[vian]

I heard this same statement at the start of cata. Except is was about wrath. Once mists is no longer new, everyone will be preaching about how great cata was. I've been playing since vanilla. This is said at the end of every xpac...

Indeed, people will the OP will always bitch and moan about the current content, then preach how good the previous one was.

[Deleted]

I think one of the reason there are so many 10mans guilds now, is because of the huge amount of work there is in keeping a guild. I've been a co-GM in a raiding guild, and it took alot of effort as a 10man guild to keep track of everything. The guilds that're still 25man is those who have trustworthy guys, and those whos gm have the time and lust to keep it going. Before cata you didn't have the option to go 10man raiding and still get awesome gear, so you HAD to put alot of effort into the guild, if you wanted to raid, say that they've had the same GM and officers since TBC that's along time. So if you whine about every 25man guild turning 10man, try make a 25man guild and see how long you can keep it going and how much time it takes from your personal life.

[greech]

You heard at the beginning of wotlk that 25s had problems because of 10 man groups ? I do not remember that to any extent and have to call bs.

If people wanted to do 25s, they would do 25s. 25 man raiding "having problems" isn't the fault of 10 mans or anything else.

[Aliessil]

Only it's not like that at all.

WoTLK was still pretty populated until the end, you should have seen trade chat on a server like Al'Akir (Horde). Lots of raiding including 25-man. Guilds were strong too. (They disbanded by the end of T11 content)

Now?

Erm ... I don't know about your server, but mine's always taken a massive population hit during June-August. I know tons of people who pretty much stop playing for the Summer and go outside. When that happens, I know others who go play the other faction for a while, to see whatever they've missed.

[Deleted]

Maybe it's due to being in an isolated niche (the one Portuguese server in the EU) but we're a very active server. Lots of raiding guilds, with 2 25-man with 8/8 Hc in the Alliance side and like 7 of those in the Horde. Plus a SHITTON of 10-man guilds. Really, there's probably over 50 active raiding guilds in the server that I know of. Plus the RBG/Arena guilds.

And pugging is strong too. Not so much in the Alliance (a few of my guild members do pug 6/8 HC with their alts) but the Horde has DS pugs (of all ranges of heroic completion) all the freaking time!

[Darkfrosty]

Yep raiding is obviously destroyed why is blizz even making raids in MOP if no one is going to raid............ OP you are dumb, I'm on a medium populated server and still had 3-4 decent 25 mans finish HC DS. As far as people going to 10 mans who the fuck cares I switched to a 10 man guild in cata and I love it. Actually talking to everyone in your raid and everyone contributing instead of having 25 in a raid and having 5-6 crappy kids (I would bet you fall in this category).

MOP raiding is looking great go watch a beta video and learn something before you just post your opinions.

[Reclaimer]

Ah, you must have been apart of that...what? 2% of people that reached Heroic Cotent? Other players should get better? How long has WoW been out? Exactly. Not everyone can aford to be hardcore. You talk as if 25 man raiding is totally Dead. Not on my Server, Who cares if theres more 10man guilds these days? If anything i'd say its justice for all the years 10man groups got laughed at.

why bother? LFR means you can get the same loot just on slightly lower item level and sometimes different skins.

Invaild, You cant brag about gear your won in LFR. It takes very less skill to get it because Its designed for people with less skill who dont want a 2nd job raiding. I dont see the problem. If your a Pro raider. Your going to be the guy starting in your main city with the nice new Titles/Mounts and Heroic gear. Just as allways. Dont act like 95% of WoWs playerbase has downed Heroic Deathwing.

I think we can honestly say that Cataclysm has destroyed raiding, destroyed the server's community.

Trolling? I mean....Are you being for real? You wanna know what "destroyed the server's community" That 2% of Eilte fags in Guild laughing at people on trade chat because they couldnt sit raiding 247 and work on progession. People have lifes. Blizz has finally woke up to it and theres nothing hardcore raiders can do about it. You had the spotlight for 7 years. Now its thats 98%'s turn. Face da music

[Nekosom]

So having almost reached the end of the line (the end of the expansion) I think we can honestly say that Cataclysm has destroyed raiding, destroyed the server's community.

Gone are the days of 25-mans guilds, now most guilds are 10-man since it's the same loot and shared lockout, except you don't really need a guild, pugging works too...

...EXCEPT, players don't even bother, why bother? LFR means you can get the same loot just on slightly lower item level and sometimes different skins.


I've seen many older raiders who quit in WoTLK returning in Cataclysm for some action. They quit shortly after Cataclysm's release, the guilds fell apart. Even guilds that used to be strong in WoTLK (25-man guilds) either disbanded or turned 10-man. Was it worth it? Did the casualization bring back 2 million subs? I doubt it.

Yes, actually. It's kept the game quite successful.

For a game as old as WoW, success isn't measured by how many subscribers you add, but how many you maintain. Blizzard maintains its numbers by replacing old blood with new. It always has. I wouldn't be surprised if as many players have quit WoW over its lifetime as currently are subscribed. As much as this forum might suggest otherwise, most Vanilla players left the game a long time ago. BC players too. Now, many of the Wrath babies are growing out of WoW and join the chorus of discontent that suggests a problem that doesn't exist.

Of course old guilds are dying. Time tends to do that. And the new players that come in aren't like the old ones. They don't have the nostalgic hard-on you have, so see little purpose in raiding with 25 people when raiding with 10 is so much more fun. And I'll bet there are plenty of those new players who have just as much fun raiding as you EVER had doing it. Doesn't that just drive you crazy? How dare they have fun! Don't they know WoW is totally lame now?! Of course, they don't come into forums like these. Why would they? All they see around them is the MMO equivalent of a bunch of crotchety old men sitting in their rocking chairs. "Why in my day, epics were actually epic! If you didn't treat it like a full-time job and spend an inordinate amount of time with people you couldn't stand in a raid that was horribly overtuned, then you didn't get nuthin'! And we liked it that way!"

The game changes. The players change. You people are all way too young to act so cynical.

[Deleted]

If people wanted to do 25s, they would do 25s. 25 man raiding "having problems" isn't the fault of 10 mans or anything else.

The only "problem" as I see it between 25 and 10 man raiding is that the achievements and feats of strength should be seperated into (10) and (25), with only one of them being obtainable. As it is, there's biased competiton for 10 and 25 when going for realm firsts and it would solve, I feel, some of the dramatics going around, and make myself happier while not really harming anyone at all. I mean, honestly, why does it make sense to put 10 and 25s against eachother when it's never fully balanced, either due to mechanics or intentional undertuning?

[Deleted]

Ah, you must have been apart of that...what? 2% of people that reached Heroic Cotent? Other players should get better? How long has WoW been out? Exactly. Not everyone can aford to be hardcore. You talk as if 25 man raiding is totally Dead. Not on my Server, Who cares if theres more 10man guilds these days? If anything i'd say its justice for all the years 10man groups got laughed at.

Invaild, You cant brag about gear your won in LFR. It takes very less skill to get it because Its designed for people with less skill who dont want a 2nd job raiding. I dont see the problem. If your a Pro raider. Your going to be the guy starting in your main city with the nice new Titles/Mounts and Heroic gear. Just as allways. Dont act like 95% of WoWs playerbase has downed Heroic Deathwing.



Trolling? I mean....Are you being for real? You wanna know what "destroyed the server's community" That 2% of Eilte fags in Guild laughing at people on trade chat because they couldnt sit raiding 247 and work on progession. People have lifes. Blizz has finally woke up to it and theres nothing hardcore raiders can do about it. You had the spotlight for 7 years. Now its thats 98%'s turn. Face da music

this 100% this..

[Deleted]

T11 and 12 were fine, what destroyed it for me the shared lockout system they introduced at the end of wrath.