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  1. #1

    Do skills have cooldowns?

    I read an article where a guy from Anet said they want to make GW2 combat more like an FPS. I like that they did away with targeting.

    But I get the impression it still has cooldowns on skills. Is that right?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by sync View Post
    I read an article where a guy from Anet said they want to make GW2 combat more like an FPS. I like that they did away with targeting.

    But I get the impression it still has cooldowns on skills. Is that right?
    Unless you're a Thief, yes your abilities are all cooldown (rather than mana/rage/focus) based. Thief has Initiative, but it works pretty differently from Energy.
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  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Hanto's Avatar
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    Certain skills do, some don't. I know my Thief just has a resource system (Initiative) and a lot of the skills are just based on using that resource with no cooldown. Other skills use both (correct me if I'm wrong).

    I'm fairly certain my Elementalist had cooldowns on all of her skills, but being able to swap between four different attunements gives the feeling that your skills are on little to no cd.

    Edit: Kelesti is right. All Thief skills require just Initiative for use. Just browsed a build calculator.
    Last edited by Hanto; 2012-08-01 at 03:18 AM.

  4. #4
    Yes.
    Some time ago Anet did away with resource management (except for thief). It was mana based before this. Now, it's managed by cooldowns.
    It makes the timing of skill use very important...and playing effectively means using your skills optimally. So....there's no real fixed skill rotation at all.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanto View Post
    Certain skills do, some don't. I know my Thief just has a resource system (Initiative) and a lot of the skills are just based on using that resource with no cooldown. Other skills use both (correct me if I'm wrong).

    I'm fairly certain my Elementalist had cooldowns on all of her skills, but being able to swap between four different attunements gives the feeling that your skills are on little to no cd.
    no thief weapon skill has a CD they all just have an initiative cost (So you can spam a skill over and over again as longa s you ahve the initiative for it), all other profs ONLY use CD's, granted a lot of the weapon skill ones are pretty short, but you still have to wait that CD until you can use it again.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  6. #6
    GW2 sounds like a great game but I can't stand managing cooldowns. I guess I'll wait for GW3.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sync View Post
    GW2 sounds like a great game but I can't stand managing cooldowns. I guess I'll wait for GW3.
    It's only like.......5 main weapon skills really, and the first is auto attack. You have more utility skills but those really are on a use when u really need them basis and have fairly long cooldowns.
    It's very manageable
    Last edited by Squirrelbanes; 2012-08-01 at 03:33 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sync View Post
    GW2 sounds like a great game but I can't stand managing cooldowns. I guess I'll wait for GW3.
    You will be waiting another 100 years.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post
    It's only like.......5 main weapon skills really, and the first is auto attack. You have more utility skills but those really are on a use when u really need them basis and have fairly long cooldowns.
    It's very manageable
    I'm sure it is manageable. For me, cooldowns lead to a style of play I don't enjoy. It sounds like they've done a lot to improve combat spontaneity. But for me, cooldowns take away spontaneity and make a game less fun.

    Obviously, millions of people that play GW1 and WoW are fine with them.

  10. #10
    The only class I remember thinking "damn, I need this ability but it's on cooldown!" was the elementalist. They have powerful abilities on longer CDs because you're encouraged to change Attunements on the fly and this would never really encounter the CD on an ability. I didn't swap Attunements that much though so I ran into CDs.

    Everything else I was pretty much always able to use an ability when I saw the need for it since none of the CDs are really long.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by sync View Post
    I'm sure it is manageable. For me, cooldowns lead to a style of play I don't enjoy. It sounds like they've done a lot to improve combat spontaneity. But for me, cooldowns take away spontaneity and make a game less fun.

    Obviously, millions of people that play GW1 and WoW are fine with them.
    It makes the use of skills meaningful. It is probably the most natural, organic combat system I've used in an MMO. It feels great and although it has cooldowns it still feels spontaneous because the cooldowns are not very long for weapon skills.
    There's no rotation......it's about using the skills at the best time.
    Last edited by Squirrelbanes; 2012-08-01 at 03:51 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by sync View Post
    I'm sure it is manageable. For me, cooldowns lead to a style of play I don't enjoy. It sounds like they've done a lot to improve combat spontaneity. But for me, cooldowns take away spontaneity and make a game less fun.

    Obviously, millions of people that play GW1 and WoW are fine with them.
    They aren't cooldowns in the same of WarCraft's cooldowns, or any other cooldowns per se. They aren't meant to be used ON the cooldown, but when the situation presents itself as best.

    Blurred Frenzy is a mesmer sword skill. It roots me to the ground, sticks me facing in one direction, and I go stabbity stab stab. Anything in that vicinity takes a huge chunk of damage. But while I'm casting it, someone can move out of it, thus negating that. If, however, someone can stun/immobilize them, then pushing that button is meaningful.

    Said skill also has the advantage of making me completely immune to all damage while I channel it. I can't chain it, of course, but I most definitely have it up whenever I need it.

    It's not about tracking cooldowns to make sure you're using them all as efficiently as you can. It's making sure you have this "really awesome thing right here" when you need/want it, rather than chaining some meaningless skill rotation (mind blast every 8 seconds, gg).
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post
    It makes the use of skills meaningful.
    I wish I felt that way about them. To me they are a silly solution to prevent spell spamming.

  14. #14
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sync View Post
    GW2 sounds like a great game but I can't stand managing cooldowns. I guess I'll wait for GW3.
    It's not THAT hard to do. Do you play LoL or HoN? It's kinda the same thing.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-31 at 10:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by sync View Post
    I wish I felt that way about them. To me they are a silly solution to prevent spell spamming.
    How is it silly?

    It's a great way to force you to use spells intelligently, rather than just spamming them willy nilly. There's tons of classes in WoW that have cooldowns restricting the usage of their skills, and I'm not just talking Enhance Shaman.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-08-01 at 03:56 AM.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    They aren't cooldowns in the same of WarCraft's cooldowns, or any other cooldowns per se. They aren't meant to be used ON the cooldown, but when the situation presents itself as best.

    Blurred Frenzy is a mesmer sword skill. It roots me to the ground, sticks me facing in one direction, and I go stabbity stab stab. Anything in that vicinity takes a huge chunk of damage. But while I'm casting it, someone can move out of it, thus negating that. If, however, someone can stun/immobilize them, then pushing that button is meaningful.

    Said skill also has the advantage of making me completely immune to all damage while I channel it. I can't chain it, of course, but I most definitely have it up whenever I need it.

    It's not about tracking cooldowns to make sure you're using them all as efficiently as you can. It's making sure you have this "really awesome thing right here" when you need/want it, rather than chaining some meaningless skill rotation (mind blast every 8 seconds, gg).
    I'll have to read this again tomorrow when I'm more awake. Right now I'm not getting it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by sync View Post
    I wish I felt that way about them. To me they are a silly solution to prevent spell spamming.
    It's a reaction-based combat system. It just acts to ensure ppl don't stand there spamming a skill and helps teach them combat.
    It would be sillier if there were no cooldown given the style of combat. It would make the intelligent combat senseless...or, rather, ppl would make it senseless.

  17. #17
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sync View Post
    I'll have to read this again tomorrow when I'm more awake. Right now I'm not getting it.
    Kel is basically saying that the cooldowns in GW2 are more akin to your cooldowns in a game like LoL or DotA than a game like WoW or SWTOR. If you spam abilities on CD, you're going to be extremely ineffective in taking down your enemies and experiencing a lot of moments where you wish they were on cooldown.

    It's about properly timing when you use an ability.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sync View Post
    I wish I felt that way about them. To me they are a silly solution to prevent spell spamming.
    If skills had no/little cooldown, what would prevent people form just spamming the better ability? How is that fun in the long run?

    If skills were tuned to be in line with each other so one spell wasn't vastly overpowered than the other... then what would be the point of having multiple skills?

    Seems like you want an MMO experience, without the RPG mechanics. Just wait for Planetside 2.
    Last edited by Monstercloud; 2012-08-01 at 04:02 AM.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sync View Post
    GW2 sounds like a great game but I can't stand managing cooldowns. I guess I'll wait for GW3.
    You should at least try playing it before deciding it's definitely unworkable. The basic idea may be the same, but that doesn't mean the playstyle is. ^^

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by sync View Post
    I wish I felt that way about them. To me they are a silly solution to prevent spell spamming.
    There are 3 ways to deal with spell spaming. The first is to just embrace it and say spam away. The second is limited resorces. This boils down to you have this much amunition and each spell costs this much, if you run out your boned. The third way is Cooldowns on skills.

    The first solution is not really a solution its just decideing that spell spaming is not a problem. Unfortunatly this system tends to lead to rather one dementional combat. want max damage? spam 1. Faceing a melee fighter? spam 2 to damage and snare. Faceing a ranged? spam 3 to damage and throw off their aim. are you hurt? spam 4 to heal. You cant have abilities that are significantly more powerful than the others as you would only spam that one ability non stop and ignore the rest. The only thing approaching a resorce in this senario is time. That time is represented either by a GCD or some form of cast time delay, in FPS terms rate of fire.

    Solution 2, limited resorces is the way many games approach the problem. In a FPS if you just keep shooting or throwing grenades you'll run out and be helpless. In an RPG you may have 100 mana initialy and regenerate 1 mana a second while fighting. you have cheep abilitys that cost less than your regen over time but do little damage and strong abilities that just gobble your mana in no time flat. You need to manage your resorces so you do as much as you can but dont run out till right near the end of the fight. This leads to more tactical choices than option 1 as you need to balance the need of useing a particular ability in reaction to events now vs the risk of runing out of gas later on down the line. The downside of this approach is that the longer fight goes the weaker you become. The damage you can do in a 30s burst may be twice what you can do over a 60 second burst and it drops even lower the longer the fight drags out. While the concept of fatigue the longer the fight goes may be more realistic its often not considered fun to get weaker as time goes on in video game combat.

    The third option is cool downs. You are still forced into tactical choices. Do I use my gap closer now? If I do and the target evades and bursts away I'll be a siting duck till its off CD while they kite. Should I use this ability to remove this snare or should I save it to remove a stun. The difference between this option and resorce management is that your power level is relitivly constant throuout a fight of any length. The dev's are not forced to make every fight only 60s in length, no more no less because otherwise the powercurve would be thrown off. Unless the fight is super short, aka less than the CD of major abilities then it does not mater how long the fight goes from a design standpoint. This allows for greater combat diversity.

    Even if you hate manageing CD's you might still be able to find what you want in GW2. If resorce management is more your thing look to the thief class. While the proper term is initiative it is in effect your basic energy/mana/ammo bar that regenerates at a set pace. you can use your abilities without CD in a burst if you wish or can take a measured approach and save the energy for an opertune time.

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