I feel like i seen u post the samething the other day LOL. but i agree people need to learn just cause it has a cash shop dose not mean its Pay 2 Win.
*Personally Opinion* Guild Wars 1/2 is the best B2p games out there that has a cash shop nothing from the shop is needed and mostly cosmetic.
As i said people need to learn what Pay 2 Win is and stop thinking every single cash shop in a mmo is it.
---------- Post added 2012-08-02 at 07:37 PM ----------
and i have to 100% disagree with u cause if buying a temp xp/hp buff is Pay 2 win then having stam pots/food in wow is also a pay 2 win and being rested is pay 2 win since ur paying 15$ a month for the game.......
as i said many times people really need to learn what Pay 2 Win mean's
---------- Post added 2012-08-02 at 07:39 PM ----------
Neather has any kind of monthly fee it is your choice to use there cash shop but both is 100% free. *Aion in the EU dose have less then the US*
---------- Post added 2012-08-02 at 07:41 PM ----------
CoH is not P2W. its cash shop dose have class unlocks aka class types u can't get for free. in it but that is normal for any cash shop on a game that has F2p/P2p mixed into it please tell me how CoH is a P2W mmo and if u pay the sub that is 15$ a month u get all of that.
Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2012-08-02 at 07:42 PM.
Excuse me, but please do tell about all these games you can do that in. If you're going to be calling someone a liar, you should have some evidence to back it up. EVE and TERA have sanctioned RMT, but I can't think of another game where that's the case off the top of my head (GW2 will have it, but it's not out).
And considering the fact that the "best" gear in a MMO can RARELY be purchased with in-game currency, I fail to see how that's even relevant.
The incarnates system is only available by paying a full on sub. This system grants extremely powerful abilities that will make you much stronger (and a higher level so more combat strength aswell as the new power)
The IO system is also something only available if you pay for it. Again this system makes you far stronger than someone who doesn't have access to it. It would be the equivalent of someone in BiS heroic gear vs someone with normal dungeon gear.
I would also consider any game (like SWToR) that gives content granting significant gear upgrades over a F2P player pay to win.
It would be like WoW going F2P and saying that whilst everyone can do arenas if you don't pay you can only earn honor points. Everyone with a Sub and earning conquest points will smash them due to the sheer power differences.
the gear u will be able to buy in the cash shop for guild wars 2 is cosmetic this has already been said many times.
---------- Post added 2012-08-02 at 07:46 PM ----------
ok by ur standers wow is a pay to win cause with the free part u can only go to level 20 can't talk to anyone in trade chat and if u do the pvp u will barely get any decent gear.
a sub level 20 would beat a f2p level 20 so that must be pay to win right........
Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2012-08-02 at 07:47 PM.
It gives you ACCESS to it through the game, it doesn't sell it directly through the cash shop. I can see where you're coming from, and you're absolutely right that someone with their incarnate powers unlocked is more powerful than someone who doesn't have them, but I don't see that falling under the traditional definition of the word. It's an incentive to get people to subscribe, which is what all freemium games want people to do.
If anything, I see it as a hazy gray area, but that being said I'll probably take CoH off my quick list.
Just because you don't straight up buy gear doesn't mean it isn't pay to win.
If you have access to better gear just because you pay for it, eg with a sub, that someone who doesn't pay for a sub can never access then it is still Pay2Win. A player who pays for the game will have access to significant power gains than someone who doesn't.
OK and as i pointed out a min ago if that is the case and and true *and it is not people need to learn what Pay 2 Win means* then WOW is a pay to win cause a sub level 20 would mop the floor with a f2p level 20 because they can get other things the f2p can't.......and by ur standers all MMORPG"S is pay to win
I never said they sold actual gear through the cash shop. I said they have developer sanctioned RMT. You can buy and sell the gems that you purchase for real money, on a gold exchange. So you can realistically buy a ton of gems, sell them for a ton of gold, and have oodles of gold. The gold itself won't make you any more powerful than anyone else though.
I need to disagree with you saying that League of Legends is the right way to do things. You can still get stronger in that game compared to others, and you got an advantage if you got all champions vs someone who only has the free ones (You can pick a champ that is better for your teams setup). For me the only game of that genre that doing it right is Dota 2 in my opinion. In that game you can buy nothing that will give you any kind of advantage over others, and you have all champs from launch.
League of Legends is a good model but it's not an mmo.
WoW doesn't offer a F2P model. WoW offers an extended free trial up to level 20. There is a large difference between a F2P model within a game and a Free Trial.
A PaytoWin model is where the only way to access the items that give the strongest power gains is to pay for it. If you are able to still access the same 'gear' as a free user but it take much longer then it isn't pay to win, but if you can never access the 'gear' then it is.
That's buying convenience though. My brother unlocked every champion, purchased multiple runepages, and purchased every rune he wanted (i.e. ignored the useless ones or the ones he didn't want for any of his builds). He did that without spending money on IP boosts or champions. Sure, it took him a long time, but he managed to do it. Someone who paid money may have accomplished this faster than him (in fact, the surely did), but they are no more powerful than him because of it.
To be fair, with the kind of restrictions that freemium games put on free users, you could call F2P accounts in freemium games little more than "extended free trials" that just happen to go to max level.
Mislabeling ect. primarily driven by our lack of widely agreed upon terminology for the recent increase in F2P monetization methods.
Wow dose offer a f2p model and its limited to level 20 * can play this forever*. just like swtor will be limited to level 50 *around that time max level will be around 60* u can split hairs all u want but it dose. even still i was proving a point that people need to learn that Pay to Win really means and this isn't it.
Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2012-08-02 at 08:00 PM.
P2W = Cash shop items are more powerful than drops.
P2C = Cash shop items are on par with drops (pay to compete)
F2P = No monthly fee. Can be P2W, P2C or neither (purely cosmetic cashshop items, like The Secret World).
I am very interested now in what both Jtbrig7390 and edgecrusherO0 would consider as pay to win.
If you don't consider it as being "the ONLY way to get the best items (in terms of power gains) is by paying for it" then what exactly would you think it could mean?