add ons in gw2

[DrakeWurrum]

That's because tanks really didn't need to know anything beyond "Who's attacking me? Who's NOT attacking me?"

[Fencers]

That's because tanks really didn't need to know anything beyond "Who's attacking me? Who's NOT attacking me?"

A salient point.

[Deleted]

Worst UI, not average UI. Even my UI was not as minimalistic as the average UI. :P

Would show fellow raiders screens of my UI and they'd be like "Dude, why do you have so much information enabled?" and my screen was honestly very clean with practically no clutter. I just liked knowing everything.

Let me have my fun
But all considered, I think Add-Ons made WoW less enjoyable and less skill based. But the cause is more the lack of indication than higher difficulty that made Add-Ons so popular on WoW. Casting ability x on player x using the same animation as all other casts = when should the healer be concerned? The target knows. But by the time they tell the healer, it's probably too late. Individual skill combined with optional party supportive features will be what makes this game awesome. You can get by or you can kick ass with super awesome moves. The choice is there and the need to rely on others is decreased by a significant amount. I just think if there are things like damage meters in the game, it should be a minigame that makes sense within the game rather than a tacked on UI element.

[DrakeWurrum]

A salient point.

Well, I guess they also needed to know when to pop big raid-wide cooldowns, but usually that sort of thing would be announced on vent/mumble.

[Deleted]

That's because tanks really didn't need to know anything beyond "Who's attacking me? Who's NOT attacking me?"

Depends on the tank. Blood Death Knights have been very interesting to play since around firelands as they required attention to not only who's attacking who, but also how much damage you're taking and when to decide to use your healing / bloodshield. Without addons it is almost impossible to judge the healing done by a death strike so in that case, an addon was needed.
By your logic, DPS would only have to worry about who they're attacking. It is a little oversimplified but it shows just how shallow WoW really is. ;o

[Elim Garak]

Add-ons are created because they are needed. Think about it. Take ThreatMeter in WoW as example.

[Fencers]

Well, I guess they also needed to know when to pop big raid-wide cooldowns, but usually that sort of thing would be announced on vent/mumble.

Yea, that. Plus a lot of games don't really have raid wide CDs on the tanking classes or they are insignificant. The sort of Shield Wall thing is mostly EQ/WOW artifact.

However. I have played a healer a few times in other games and still didn't find much reason for addons. In Warhammer, the default frames were fine. In Rift the default frames were fine. In GW1... well, in GW1 the UI told you ONLY what was important to know. RA, no raiding addons needed. Nothing of the sort in FF11, EQ or Vanguard either.

There are some Secret World addons out there but they also don't seem useful over the default features. Some of them seem really obtuse.

To me the value of addons are in the QOL features. Which again, I think a game should have to ship with in the first place. As concerns GW2, I don't think they missed much on the QOL front except the most minor inconveniences like town clothes swapping or auto-repair and the like.

[Deleted]

No Threat Table = No Need for Omen or Threat addon

No Consistent DPS due to dodging attacks / randomized threat = No Recount or DPS Meters

No Tanks or Healers = No Need for Healing or Damage received meters.

None Scirpted Boss fights = No need for DBZ Deadly Boss addons

Built in Bag sorter / bag compactor = No need for Bagnon

No Quests Logs = No Need for Monkey Helper / quest helper addons

No Direct target healing = No need for Grid or Healbot

Auction house is accessable any wheres through your menu = no need for auctioneer addon

Theres really no need for addons, In Guildwars 2

I dunno but what I got from your enumeration is that game engine is so retar...um...the game engine is so simplistic and basic that add-ons have no purpose. Might as well implement addons in Runescape.
Infracted --Kel

[DrakeWurrum]

Yea, that. Plus a lot of games don't really have raid wide CDs on the tanking classes or they are insignificant. The sort of Shield Wall thing is mostly EQ/WOW artifact.

However. I have played a healer a few times in other games and still didn't find much reason for addons. In Warhammer, the default frames were fine. In Rift the default frames were fine. In GW1... well, in GW1 the UI told you ONLY what was important to know. RA, no raiding addons needed. Nothing of the sort in FF11, EQ or Vanguard either.

There are some secret World addons out there but they also don't seem useful over the default features. Some of them seem really obtuse.

To me the value of addons are in the QOL features. Which again, I think a game should have to ship with in the first place. As concerns GW2, I don't think they missed much on the QOL front except the most minor inconveniences like town clothes swapping or auto-repair and the like.

As a healer, I tricked out my raid frames quite heavily. Lots of condensed information into that little space. Allowed me to see which allies had PW:Shield on them still, without having to target them (as well as PoM, Weakened Soul, Grace, Renew, etc etc), which allies had a debuff I could cleanse, without targeting them. Allowed me to see if they were already receiving a heal from somebody else in the raid. Allowed me to see if they had aggro from a mob, with a simple glance at the UI instead of going "That mob is targeting them. Are they taking damage?"
Not to mention the @mouseover bindings that I used specifically restricted to the UI space of my raid frames, thus allowing me to use my mouse/spells normally elsewhere.

There's a difference between "necessary" additions and "valuable" additions.

[tru]

I dunno but what I got from your enumeration is that game engine is so retar...um...the game engine is so simplistic and basic that add-ons have no purpose. Might as well implement addons in Runescape.

Really thats what you come back with? You obviously haven't played the beta weekends. WoW NEEDS addons because they have a fail stock UI GW2 has a pretty nice UI and not once did I feel I NEEDED an addon to play better like I did in WoW.

[Fencers]

Isn't there an option to simply only show things you can cleanse and your own buff on the raid frame? I may be wrong, I haven't played World of Warcraft in a long time. But I feel like that is the way of most MMO raid frames.

[Elim Garak]

Really thats what you come back with? You obviously haven't played the beta weekends. WoW NEEDS addons because they have a fail stock UI GW2 has a pretty nice UI and not once did I feel I NEEDED an addon to play better like I did in WoW.

I dunno I did find the crafting UI a bit cumbersome and confusing.

[DrakeWurrum]

Really thats what you come back with? You obviously haven't played the beta weekends. WoW NEEDS addons because they have a fail stock UI GW2 has a pretty nice UI and not once did I feel I NEEDED an addon to play better like I did in WoW.

As said above, there's a difference between "necessary" addons and "valuable" addons. Just because you don't need it, doesn't mean it's not good to have it. You might as well say that I don't *need* wireless bluetooth to call people on my cell hands-free, or that I don't *need* internet access on a smartphone.

---------- Post added 2012-08-06 at 10:32 AM ----------

Isn't there an option to simply only show things you can cleanse and your own buff on the raid frame? I may be wrong, I haven't played World of Warcraft in a long time. But I feel like that is the way of most MMO raid frames.

Don't know. The default raid frames were pretty fail, so I never paid attention to whether or not they were improved over time, but I know for sure they never showed as much information as Vuhdo.

Vuhdo could even show things like how many players are clustered together within a certain yardage, for the most efficient usage of Chain Heal, simply by putting numbers on an ally's HP bar that represented the number of allied targets in range.

[Elim Garak]

Isn't there an option to simply only show things you can cleanse and your own buff on the raid frame? I may be wrong, I haven't played World of Warcraft in a long time. But I feel like that is the way of most MMO raid frames.

There is in add-on, there's also an option to show health as deficit. Which is way more useful for healers.

[Kelesti]

There is in add-on, there's also an option to show health as deficit. Which is way more useful for healers.

After 4.0, that's included in the baseline functionality, turning the standard Blizzard frames into a baseline Grid-lite type of feature. Having it stock for everyone is a very awesome thing, rather than the expectation that you need something Anet themselves aren't offering.

That's what ANet's going for. If people feel they're missing something (a PvE death log) let them know.

[Deleted]

I dunno but what I got from your enumeration is that game engine is so retar...um...the game engine is so simplistic and basic that add-ons have no purpose. Might as well implement addons in Runescape.

It isn't a matter of simplicity, it is a matter of enjoyment. All these things are what other MMOs do wrong. But let me break it down for you:

No Threat Table = No Need for Omen or Threat addon

Real threat comes from those who are most likely to hit you and to do the most damage. For instance, if someone is standing near you and is powering up big attacks that could be interrupted, they are more threatening than the guy with a shield and butterknife. Threat should not be based on whatever the excuse is for threat in EQ standard MMOs, it should be based on who is the most likely to deal big damage to you in the near future, taking into account their distance from you.

No Consistent DPS due to dodging attacks / randomized threat = No Recount or DPS Meters

This is what is called dynamic combat. This is a leap ahead of other MMOs rather than a simplification in the game engine. In certain situations you get the chance to throw out that big powerful attack but more often than not you'll be switching between weapons, controlling the enemy's abilities/movement and throwing yourself around the place to avoid being killed. Nobody can just sit there spamming the same rotation.

No Tanks or Healers = No Need for Healing or Damage received meters.

Tanks are explained above. Healers are an obsolete role in games. They are often boring and shallow roles that don't allow you to feel the gravity of the fight. It also means the other players are less likely to move from a damaging attack because they know they can get healed through it. This is not normal behavior. You don't jump off a cliff because there's a hospital at the bottom.

None Scirpted Boss fights = No need for DBZ Deadly Boss addons

Randomness in fights often makes the fight more interesting and more fun. When you know 30 seconds beforehand what the boss is going to do, you have plenty of time to prepare for it which makes the fight an extremely dull experience, whereas if you don't know what is coming next, you must rely on your reactions and on your knowledge of the profession.

Built in Bag sorter / bag compactor = No need for Bagnon

Do I need to explain this? Bagnon is an addon that should have been shipped with release. Separate bags is just annoying and inefficient.

No Quests Logs = No Need for Monkey Helper / quest helper addons

This is directly caused by the game's dynamic world. Things are constantly changing and certain events won't be available under certain conditions. This makes the world feel more alive and questing feel less like a shopping list of tasks.

No Direct target healing = No need for Grid or Healbot

Again the healing point. Healers = bad gameplay, lazy design and breaks the game.

Auction house is accessable any wheres through your menu = no need for auctioneer addon

Profits can't be collected until you find an auctioneer but selling things on the fly is possible. This is more a convenience than anything else. Less time wasting, more fun.

So does that simplify the game? No. In fact it shows how complex the game engine is and how powerful it is.
And add-ons in Runescape? Please. Don't make me laugh.

[DrakeWurrum]

This is what is called dynamic combat. This is a leap ahead of other MMOs rather than a simplification in the game engine. In certain situations you get the chance to throw out that big powerful attack but more often than not you'll be switching between weapons, controlling the enemy's abilities/movement and throwing yourself around the place to avoid being killed. Nobody can just sit there spamming the same rotation.

Worth noting that the bolded portion is often not the case in HM raid encounters.

It's also worth noting that randomness in boss fights actually gives you more reason to have a mod like DBM, not less. If the fight is predictable and you know exactly how things will go, you won't need warnings for the skill the enemy is about to use. You wouldn't get timers to be sure, but the big raid warning announcements of a big bad spell happening is still valuable. (Also would be OP, and not gonna happen, but that's beside the point)



Also, in regards to auctioneer addon: the auctioneer addon had nothing to do with accessing the auction house from a distance (could only be done as engineer crafting profession), but everything to do with managing your economic standing more efficiently. Quickly finding the cheapest prices of your mats, quickly selling your mats at the most cost-effective/cheapest price.

All of which is automatically handled by the marketplace, but I just wanted to make sure you aren't speaking gibberish.

[Deleted]

Worth noting that the bolded portion is often not the case in HM raid encounters.

It's also worth noting that randomness in boss fights actually gives you more reason to have a mod like DBM, not less. If the fight is predictable and you know exactly how things will go, you won't need warnings for the skill the enemy is about to use. You wouldn't get timers to be sure, but the big raid warning announcements of a big bad spell happening is still valuable. (Also would be OP, and not gonna happen, but that's beside the point)



Also, in regards to auctioneer addon: the auctioneer addon had nothing to do with accessing the auction house from a distance (could only be done as engineer crafting profession), but everything to do with managing your economic standing more efficiently. Quickly finding the cheapest prices of your mats, quickly selling your mats at the most cost-effective/cheapest price.

All of which is automatically handled by the marketplace, but I just wanted to make sure you aren't speaking gibberish.

Wasn't me who made the point. Just going through the list :d
But on WoW there are sections of most encounters dedicated to sitting there spamming the rotation even on HM. My point is that you cannot predict whether you can get that time to deal damage in GW2 and therefore might waste your cooldowns. Even if you had DBM in GW2, things can change so rapidly that there is no way it could keep up or effectively help you in any way. Also with the lack of DBM timers, you're still relying on fast reactions, effectively making the addon worthless in my opinion. But if people want more text in bold blue letters on their screen just to help them do something they should be able to do without much thought then you're never gonna be rid of addons.

[Deleted]

Addons tend to be the deciding factor if you're invited to a party(raid) or not. And I would like to not see that in GW2. I personally never had this problem but we all know it's there.

For example:
Omen
DBM/Bigwigs
GearScore

Not to mention Anet wants us to play this game the way its intended, without using a crutch(addons) and making sure everyone is on an even playing field. That last part is really important to them. I'm always for mods in PC games, but it's a little different from between and MMORPG and a SPRPG.

how is it "even" if one person finds the layout detrimental to game play while the other doesn't, well your all same so fuck ye !

The hostility is unnecessary. You can make a point without it. --Kel

[Deleted]

No there wont be add-ons but I would like to see a personal dps meter atleast.

uuurgh, like it matters? esp in this game, where the only metric that matters is if you can survive the fight!