add ons in gw2

[DrakeWurrum]

Wasn't me who made the point. Just going through the list :d

Still worth noting! Doesn't necessarily have to be a response when I quote. :P

uuurgh, like it matters? esp in this game, where the only metric that matters is if you can survive the fight!

It matters to some people. Those of us who like to maximize performance. Believe it or not, the only metric that really matters in WoW is surviving the fight.

[Fencers]

DPS was pretty important in what I played. Many encounters were based on having the means to burn a mob down quickly. As the amount of conditions/debuffs and damage output easily exceeded a player's capacity to deal with them. Esp. in encounters with steady flow of adds and limited time to destroy an object before being overwhelmed.

DPS matters. A lot.

[DrakeWurrum]

DPS was pretty important in what I played. Many encounters were based on having the means to burn a mob down quickly. As the amount of conditions/debuffs damage output easily exceeded a player's capacity to deal with them. Esp. in encounters with steady flow of adds and limited time to deal with them before being overwhelmed.

DPS matters. A lot.

^also this.

Tired of the misconception that active combat means damage won't matter. The holy trinity may have been "removed" but damage done/taken and healing done/taken/reduced still all matter, or else this game has no challenge.

[Deleted]

Still worth noting! Doesn't necessarily have to be a response when I quote. :P


It matters to some people. Those of us who like to maximize performance. Believe it or not, the only metric that really matters in WoW is surviving the fight.

Dps meters inevitably lead to bad gameplay. People stand in fire and expect others to cover them so they can dps more, they dont interrupt so they can dps more, they dont switch targets so they can dps more (wiped in DW manytimes because people cant control their dps)..

Also, no fight in gw2 is a static dps race....its all very random, so how you do measure a good or bad dps?

In WoW there are hard dps checks, you stand there and rely on gear and rotation to get you through...so dps matters. In GW2 its not like that, what matters is not numbers but reactions and ability to adapt, and you cant meter that.

I hope no addons will be allowed ever, not because I hate them, but because its not that kind of game. Addons in Wow? fine, addons in Rift? fine. Addons in GW2? no thanks.

Dps only really matters on regenerating enemies, if you can control mobs its mostly irrelevant. Bad groups will rely on burst to try and nuke through, but thats been the case in many mmos, good groups will use abilities and make fight smooth wihtout the "nuke and pray" strategy being necessary.

[Fencers]

Thing about "surviving" or dodging in GW2 is that it is essentially healing. Like that's how one "heals" for lack of a better term- gtfo/pay attention to positioning.

Also doing a few dodge rolls doesn't make DPS any less important than in other games where one may interrupt a spell or CC a target while DPSing all the same.

CC effects are 1-3 seconds long in GW2. Really can't lock down a group of 2 Necros, 2 Rangers, 1 Monk and a 1 Memser. You need to burn some of those targets hard.

[DrakeWurrum]

Dps meters inevitably lead to bad gameplay.

No. They don't. This is only true for bad players who don't know how to use them. Good players can understand the breakdown of their damage and find places where they could optimize their damage further without sacrificing their survival.

Just because you have to dodge dangerous skills and have moments where you don't do damage does NOT mean that you cannot maximize your damage as much as possible within the scope of surviving coming first. This is how real hardcore raiders play the game already. I dare you to down Heroic Staghelm, in appropriate ilvl gear, as a ranged DPS, and tell me that both dodging and DPS are not important. Because surely if you stand still and pewpew, you'll do more damage than if you stay in the fiery leap.
A dead raider does 0 DPS.

[Fencers]

Yea, I don't really know of too many static raid encounters outside of WOW & EQ- where the terms tank & spank were somewhat literal. Usually you are jumping/moving/teleporting all over the goddamn place in raids.

[DrakeWurrum]

There are fights like Ultraxion and Patchwerk out there to be sure, but they are not the common denominator. Heroic Yor'sahj, as well, is a fight that has no enrage timer, but you still want to kill the boss and the adds ASAP, or else your healers will quickly be overwhelmed and OOM - and all the while you have to switch targets, stack/spread appropriately, etc etc.

[Deleted]

No. They don't. This is only true for bad players who don't know how to use them. Good players can understand the breakdown of their damage and find places where they could optimize their damage further without sacrificing their survival.

.

Dont believe I said for eveyone, just that they do lead to bad gameplay.
They do however make people focus on dps over other things, its inevitable, if thats what you measure, thats what you aim for.

My guild in wow had a mindset of "we dont care about dps until everyone is alive when we reach the enrage timer", which served us well. Dps meters were banned (people probably stillused them but linking was prohibited), raids were logged for later analysis because thats what wow required.

GW2 its not that way.

However this is all irrelevant. Addons are not in, addons will not be in, so this entire thread is kind of pointless, as its a disucssion about addons and not GW2.


Incidentially do you and Fencers have a thing going on? Because its getting weird how you seam to stalk each other to jump in and agree with what the other posted....

[Fencers]

Drake and I rarely agree on anything actually.

[Kelesti]

Isn't Drake with Kitiya(sp)…?

Also, lolz. And yes, damage has importance, but a meter in and of itself more-often-than-not leads to bad play being encouraged/justified. Someone runs a defensive build instead of a power build, another spends half her time kiting (or trying to position a la The Lovers in Catacombs) "gg why fuck we carry u".

For tweaking builds and helping to test your optimal damage output, is there not a dummy that records your DPS and tells you it in the Mists like there was in GW1?

[Fencers]

There are test dummies just like in GW1.

[Lillpapps]

Isn't Drake with Kitiya(sp)…?

Also, lolz. And yes, damage has importance, but a meter in and of itself more-often-than-not leads to bad play being encouraged/justified. Someone runs a defensive build instead of a power build, another spends half her time kiting (or trying to position a la The Lovers in Catacombs) "gg why fuck we carry u".

For tweaking builds and helping to test your optimal damage output, is there not a dummy that records your DPS and tells you it in the Mists like there was in GW1?

That's why it would be great if its personal like the person suggesting it said. You would only be able to see your own DPS and how much your own abilities do and so on.

[Fencers]

Actually Kel makes a pretty good distinction. In that DPS tracking as paramount leads to bad play not bad gameplay. As was falsely asserted above.

Kind of an important difference. I don't want to say, "bads will be bad". But, well. Ya'know.

[rhandric]

You're absolutely right Kel. If there isn't, Kel (I'm not sure, I didn't search for one), they should definitely add one, for tweaking or comparing personal builds.

But there should never be a way to look at damage/dps and decide that someone is bad, you should instead figure it out from actually playing with them. Yes, fights are hectic, but as long as you're paying attention you can see what others are doing.

[Deleted]

Actually Kel makes a pretty good distinction. In that DPS tracking as paramount leads to bad play not bad gameplay. As was falsely asserted above.

Kind of an important difference. I don't want to say, "bads will be bad". But, well. Ya'know.

I think perhaps thats arguing over semantics.

But I'll agree to the point Kel makes.

I think a dummy in the mists would be a good thing (if only you can see the results). But dmg meters on a per fight basis (even if personal) are not productive, and its the first step in that elitist attitude that plagues other MMOs.

[Kelesti]

I think a dummy in the mists would be a good thing (if only you can see the results). But dmg meters on a per fight basis (even if personal) are not productive, and its the first step in that elitist attitude that plagues other MMOs.

think that's the attitude that ANet is going out of their way to avoid, as far as the community's concerned.

[Deleted]

You're absolutely right Kel. If there isn't, Kel (I'm not sure, I didn't search for one), they should definitely add one, for tweaking or comparing personal builds.

But there should never be a way to look at damage/dps and decide that someone is bad, you should instead figure it out from actually playing with them. Yes, fights are hectic, but as long as you're paying attention you can see what others are doing.

sorry just no

without dmg meters/wols no-one would have a clue who was bad / who was good.

the entire point about damage meters is that they show damage done. that's a useful feature. does it lead to bad play? no. i'd rather play with a pretentious dick who does 3857369373967397982797282795 dps than the most polite person in the world who does 0.0000000000000001 dps.

[griff112]

arenanet said they had no intentions of putting in addons :/

[rhandric]

sorry just no

without dmg meters/wols no-one would have a clue who was bad / who was good.

the entire point about damage meters is that they show damage done. that's a useful feature. does it lead to bad play? no. i'd rather play with a pretentious dick who does 3857369373967397982797282795 dps than the most polite person in the world who does 0.0000000000000001 dps.

Go ahead and play with yourself, I really couldn't care less.
If you even read what I wrote (or knew anything about GW2), in the slightest, you'd have realized, in GW2, you can see what other people are doing (unless you're tunnel-visioning) and know whether they're playing well or not. Yes, dps will matter in GW2, but basing decisions off it when there's a lot more going on (no holy trinity, etc) is just wrong. You know what the person you play with would say? "Oh, that guy did 1 dps and I did 5 dps, kick him!" when the other guy was kiting and controlling the fight. That's what Kel, and Fencers, and I are talking about.