How important is a jungler?

[Deleted]

Just because you do something that works because people have no experience of it doesn´t mean it´s viable. I could go run AP yi and go 20/0/20, doesn´t make it good.

Sure freeze lane all you want but if you don´t take tower and roam you will do nothing to help your team, meaning your mid and bot is gonna lose because they don´t have a jungler. Who is gonna prevent tower dives in bot lane? Who is gonna make sure that mid gets the blue buff? Any good player will just let himself get zoned and let his team carry him.

[Repefe]

did u ever heard about lane locking? u think i let u red/blue buff? 1st blue buff is going to mid and 1st red is going to top, forget about stealing my jungle at least in early game

my best partial result was irelia: lvl 5, 6 creeps killed and 0/2/0 score vs riven and lux both lvl 7/lvl 7, 50+/2 creeps killed and 4/0/0//0/0/4 score (with 2 unsucessfull ganks from mundo)

Right ... so you basically do clear jungle and then go camp top hoping both enemy top and jungler are bad enough to let your premade snowball. How is that different from top camping jungler ?

[Axethor]

Having a support top means you don't lose gold from not having a jungler, you just lose exp. Also, if you duo top, do it with a person you know. Take/ward your blue/red to have a surprise gank on their enemy jungler who thinks he can take it freely, and voila, you didn't lose your buffs.
It needs coordination = duo queuing required
Even if you execute it perfectly, the odds aren't in your favor. You MUST push for early game dominance so their jungler can't f*ck up your bot (i take for granted that your mid ain't a idiot and doesn't push).

Two supports = good luck winning late game. Your lacking another source of damage, so while you migh have more CC you wont have the damage to make use of it. It also makes a duo top easier to gank since the jungler can ignore the support at first unless he is easier to kill.

did u ever heard about lane locking? u think i let u red/blue buff? 1st blue buff is going to mid and 1st red is going to top, forget about stealing my jungle at least in early game

my best partial result was irelia: lvl 5, 6 creeps killed and 0/2/0 score vs riven and lux both lvl 7/lvl 7, 50+/2 creeps killed and 4/0/0//0/0/4 score (with 2 unsucessfull ganks from mundo)

I think this says more about the Irelia than duo top. A good Irelia would CS under the tower (which is stupid easy one her), which this one clearly wasn't doing. Then since top is so pushed, the jungler can come in and have a better chance at ganking since they will be near your tower and less likely to chase you under it. Depending on who you have top, your jungler, and their duo top, it can be easy kills for you or very hard ganking that can go sour if you make a mistake.

[Repefe]

Sure freeze lane all you want but if you don´t take tower and roam you will do nothing to help your team, meaning your mid and bot is gonna lose because they don´t have a jungler. Who is gonna prevent tower dives in bot lane? Who is gonna make sure that mid gets the blue buff? Any good player will just let himself get zoned and let his team carry him.

Yep, you just turtle up and watch enemy duo lane share xp and gold all the while your jungler has free reign over the map. And once the tower does go down (which you will trade for dragon) you can enjoy free farm in the pushed lane anyway.

---------- Post added 2012-08-13 at 12:20 PM ----------

I think this says more about the Irelia than duo top. A good Irelia would CS under the tower (which is stupid easy one her), which this one clearly wasn't doing. Then since top is so pushed, the jungler can come in and have a better chance at ganking since they will be near your tower and less likely to chase you under it. Depending on who you have top, your jungler, and their duo top, it can be easy kills for you or very hard ganking that can go sour if you make a mistake.

Alistar with boots of mobility and oracle enjoys pushed lanes oh so much.

[swiftkid50]

The jungler has a very important role, he puts pressure on lanes. Whichever jungler puts more pressure has a higher chance of winning. So jungler is important, and if you enjoy playing jungler, then play it

[Fibb]

did u ever heard about lane locking? u think i let u red/blue buff? 1st blue buff is going to mid and 1st red is going to top, forget about stealing my jungle at least in early game

A lot of junglers can clear the jungle really quickly without taking too much damage; they don't even need smite to take the buff camp. On both Warwick and Nunu I can full clear both jungles by about the 5-6 min mark, and that's with trying for a few ganks too. By that time I'll for sure be level 6, and a duo lane will only be about level 4. Nunu and Warwick aren't really fast junglers either, other characters like Shyvana or Mundo could probably do it a lot faster.

The key to a 1v2 solo top lane is to NOT DIE. CS doesn't matter as much as staying healthy and keeping a level advantage does. As long as you're higher level then your opponents and stay healthy for when your jungler comes to gank then you'll just be able to dominate your opponents. After you get a few good kills on them, whether it's from jungler ganks or them tower diving, then you can just snowball the lane and 1v2 them if they try anything.

Honestly, one of the big mistakes I see from newer players is that they value CS too much. CS is really important, for sure, but not feeding your opponent is more important. Feeding an early kill or two pretty much guaruntees that you won't be able to farm in your lane, while securing that early kill can lead to freefarm. Early game you should be focused on gaining an advatage over your opponent. After that you can just focus on farming.

[asmodei]

u probably didnt understand that duo top is PREMADE in this case, that means superior coordination; I will continue to harrass enemy from lvl1 and as lux I can do it pretty well, I will not allow enemy even take passive experience from dying creeps = no positive lvl difference for enemy; u can only safely sit under your tower and rage at your jungler

lux has no dmg? really? even with boots and proper runes I will melt 1/2 to 2/3 of your life at lvl 6

ofc special duo top premade kayle + blitz crush enemy even more than lux + classic top; but lack of dmg is more significant later

even when I suppor bot with blitz and i see that my ad carry is sufficiently fed nd enemy jungelr is noob, I will start "support" other lanes or jungler

premade jungler supported by roaming blitz at low lvl is another of modifications - I do this after succesfull invade with great results, this tactic is very disruptive for enemy team, because enemy laners will try to hlp their jungler which means that they lose farm and lvls by chasing me; (in one of my games i reached lvl 3 in jungle as support, and my ad carry (graves) was lvl 5 against lvl 3 enemy ad carry and support

[Tisarian]

If playing in the jungle is where you have your fun, you should do that. A jungler helps your top get experience, by not stealing it, as well as farm. They also apply pressure on all of the lanes.