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  1. #1
    The Unstoppable Force DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Cool Science Proves Luke Skywalker Should Have Died In The Tauntaun’s Belly

    lol

    So I just found this fairly lengthy article linked on my Facebook feed from io9 and I had to take a look. This is a seriously good read and I must say, at first I was like, what, now I am like.... oh snap!

    http://io9.com/5931217/science-prove...ium=socialflow

    Keith Veronese
    It is one of the weirdest, wildest moments in Star Wars history. Han Solo picks up Luke Skywalker's lightsaber and slices open the belly of his dead tauntaun and stuffs Luke in to to warm him up and save his life.

    But is this scene at all realistic? If you were freezing, would jumping inside the dead body of a giant animal really help you stay warm in this situation? According to our highly scientific examination of this topic, the answer is a shocking "no." Here's why.
    Nights on the icy planet of Hoth are brutally cold. Since the tauntaun is dead, it is no longer generating heat. In time, the interior of the animal will become a death trap for Luke. How much time does Han have to find shelter and save his friend who is also one-third of an ongoing love triangle? First things first . . .

    How did the Tauntaun die?
    This question is the key to determining how long Luke can survive. Tauntauns are denizens of Hoth, acclimated to average temperatures of -61° Celsius on the planet. While the beasts of burden are accustomed to extremely low temperatures, they often seek shelter at night in order to survive. Echo Base is located near the equator, with nighttime temperatures averaging around -60 °C (-76 °F).

    Han Solo does not appear to have any problems with the tauntaun that would denote symptoms of hypothermia during his travels. Based on this fact, I am going to say that the tauntaun dies of overexertion/exhaustion and not hypothermia. This allows us to set the tauntaun's body temperature at the time of the death to be 37° Celsius (98.6 °F for those on the Farenheit scale). This decision, of course, is made with the the assumption that tauntauns operate at a core body temperature similar to mammals on Earth.

    When a Tauntaun becomes a deathtrap
    Using Newton's Law of Cooling, we can estimate the time it takes for the tauntaun's body temperature to reach levels detrimental to Luke's survival. Luke is swimming in a sea of blood, bodily fluids, and organs during his time inside the tauntaun.

    This is essentially a liquid-like environment, one that will transmit the body temperature of the tauntaun well. To best model this scenario, merging Luke's body with the tauntaun becomes necessary, creating a one body system.

    Forensics teams use Newton's Law of Cooling to estimate the time of death of a newly discovered body. Dead bodies will acclimate to the surrounding temperature of the room as the bodies no longer metabolize nutrients or generate heat. By measuring the rectal temperature of the cadaver and temperature of the room, the time since blood circulation ceased (i.e., death) can be calculated. Let's just let the idea of obtaining a Tauntaun's rectal temperature sit with you a moment.

    The calculated values we will discuss assumes a particular body temperature for the Tauntaun/Luke sandwich, and then back-calculates the amount of time it would take to achieve that temperature in a cold climate. Hoth commonly reaches temperatures of -60 °C at night, and we will use that temperature to establish the frigid "room" temperature.

    Whether Luke is completely inside of the tauntaun plays a role as well. Tauntauns are a little over two meters tall. This makes the fetal position necessary in order for Luke to be entirely enclosed within the belly. Any part of Luke that is hanging out of the tauntaun will cool faster than rest of his body inside the tauntaun, as the starting point for cooling would become Luke's own body temperature. The open wound is a problem as well, but one that is not easy to model. For the sake of Luke's survival and simplicity, we will assume Luke is completely within the interior of the tauntaun carcass.


    What is Luke's condition?
    Luke's body temperature at the time Han rescues him is likely below normal body temperature of 37 °C (98.6 °F). Luke recently fought a wampa, spoke to a vision of Ben Kenobi, and is seen shivering and confused.

    Admittedly, wampa-fighting is not a symptom of hypothermia. But hallucinations, impaired movements, and confusion — three symptoms Luke exhibits — are useful for diagnosis of Luke's physiological state.

    Hypothermia comes in a variety of forms - mild, moderate, and severe. Mild hypothermia begins once the core body temperature drops to 35.0 °C (95.0 °F), a temperature at which the human body's metabolism and organ systems begin to be affected. In mild hypothermia, the the body begins to shiver and one's heart rate increases in an effort to conserve heat. One might suffer some confusion in this state too.

    Moderate hypothermia begins at 32.0 °C (90.0 °F), with the symptoms of mild hypothermia worsening and the extremities beginning to turn blue. Severe (and deadly) hypothermia sets in once the core body temperature reaches 28 °C (82 °F). This state is characterized by speech difficulties, amnesia, puffy blue skin along with the joy of organ failure. Limb loss and death comes soon if this stage persists.

    How much time does Luke have?
    Thanks to the diagnostic criterion of blue extremities and puffy skin, we can likely rule out Luke as being in the stages of moderate or severe hypothermia. Luke's bewildered state and sluggish pace places him in the mild stage of hypothermia, placing the upper limit of his core body temperature at 35.0 °C (95.0 °F). This is also a reasonable starting point for the temperature of the tauntaun carcass, as it has been dead for several minutes.

    With Luke's body temperature decided, we can now determine how long it takes for the Jedi to plunge into severe hypothermia and with it, death. If Luke enters the tauntaun in a state of mild hypothermia, Han only has 17 minutes and 48 seconds to remove Luke, clean off the fluids from his face, and move him to warm shelter before moderate hypothermia sets in. The bigger scare here is the possibility of severe hypothermia, limb loss, and death, with Han having the extremely short window of 47 minutes and 26 seconds to extract, transport, and warm Luke.

    Even if Luke is at a normal body temperature (37 °C/98.6 °F), Solo has just under 60 minutes before Luke plunges into the deadly realm of severe hypothermia.

    Real life cases
    During the winter of 1860, Father Joseph Goiffon, a minister and French missionary traveling from through the Dakotas used a Tauntaun-like tactic to ward off the cold. Father Goiffon cut open his dead horse and crawled inside to seek shelter from the snow and cold. A search party found Goiffon alive, but his leg had to be amputated.

    There is a spectacular medical case where a seven-year-old girl Swedish reached a core body temperature of 13 °C (55.4 °F) and survived. This is an extreme outlier, with the girl likely benefiting from the plasticity of a child's brain. For Luke to reach this temperature inside the tauntaun, it would only take two hours and twenty-two minutes.

    The burden is on Han
    The clock is ticking - how fast can Han Solo create a temporary shelter and warm up Luke? Pressurized pop-up tents exist in the Star Wars Universe. Mace Windu is known to carry a "wallet tent" that self assembles in seconds and can house two people.

    Han Solo makes use of a similar tent in the novel The Courtship of Princess Leia. Solo pops out the tent as he explores the planet of Dathomir, a planet he won the deed to in a game of Sabacc. There is one problem however — Han explicitly keeps the tent inside the Millenium Falcon. We cannot know for sure if the tent is on his person as he explores Hoth. Luke's search and rescue mission is a quick one — Han leaves Echo Base in a hurry, likely believing it will be a short trip.

    In a matter of minutes, Luke will succumb to hypothermia under our understanding of physiological limits. Can Han Solo pull a tent from his backpack and erect it within minutes? Is Han building a simple snow shanty over the course of hours? Where is the additional heat source coming from? If Han fails to act quick enough, Luke Skywalker dies from the effects of severe hypothermia, or at the very least, loses a limb or two.

    Additional Dangers and caveats
    The transfer of Luke from the tauntaun interior to the shelter becomes a problem as well. Any liquid on Luke's face would freeze within seconds of leaving the tauntaun, creating a solid case around Luke's mouth and nose that would need to be removed before Luke could breathe again.

    What is inside the belly of a tauntaun? Feces, bile, stomach acid and more wonderful biological fluids. The wampa Luke fought in the previous scene left him with several lacerations. Any feces that comes in contact with these open wounds would make for a wonderful breading ground for infection.

    As this is a tongue-in-cheek look at applying real world science to a fictional event, we should probably discuss a couple of unknown parameters and assumptions. This thought experiment assumes Luke Skywalker's physiology is the same as Earth-based humans and that his core temperature are similar to warm blooded animals. Also, Luke lacks Jedi meditation and healing skills, as the young Skywalker has yet to meet and train with Yoda.

    Erring on the side of saving Luke's life (and the galaxy), we are also assuming the snow storm on Hoth did not venture outside the boundaries of temperature extremes for the planet. It very well could have due to the severity of the snowstorm at Echo Base. The effects of windchill are also neglected in this model, as well as any severe cooling of the tauntaun prior to Luke's insertion.

    I want Luke to live, but there are plenty of real world hurdles to overcome for the son of Darth Vader. The bacta tank will help Luke overcome possible infections and promote limited tissue regeneration, but things don't look good for the 'ol farmboy. While this math and medicine, it's not the final verdict. Remember, it's just a movie — if Boba Fett can come back from partial digestion the depths of the Great Pit of Carkoon, Luke can fight off the effects of hypothermia.
    But you know, apparently Lucas debunked this, says a clever poster:

    George Lucas just called and decided that midichlorians are exothermic, so he would have been fine.
    What do you guys think? Pretty cool eh? Discuss the science!!
    "A flower.
    Yes. Upon your return, I will gift you a beautiful flower."

    "Remember. Remember... that we once lived..."

    Quote Originally Posted by mmocd061d7bab8 View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  2. #2
    Shocker, next thing you'll/they'll tell us is there is no actual Deathstar.

  3. #3
    Well there was a swedish man who survived 2 months or so. Have you also taken into account that this tauntaun has fur and a large layer of blubber common to these animals living in frigid places? Or that the snow covers them which also prevents more heat from escaping than if its exposed to the winds?

  4. #4
    The Unstoppable Force DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    Well there was a swedish man who survived 2 months or so. Have you also taken into account that this tauntaun has fur and a large layer of blubber common to these animals living in frigid places? Or that the snow covers them which also prevents more heat from escaping than if its exposed to the winds?
    You make a very valid point, Cattaclysmic, I would wonder if they did take into account all of that. Surely Han had something though to keep them warm, because they waited through the night. He had a pressurized tent yes, did it also keep things warm? I wonder... It would have to, that's for sure.
    "A flower.
    Yes. Upon your return, I will gift you a beautiful flower."

    "Remember. Remember... that we once lived..."

    Quote Originally Posted by mmocd061d7bab8 View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  5. #5
    Lmao, this is gold. The brilliant thing about it is that it's so obvious, and yet so many are about to come and reply to it. I can't wait!

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Everything cant be 100% realistic in movies, it would be stupid if that was a requirement.

  7. #7
    midichlorians are badass.

    /thread

  8. #8
    You mean Star Wars isn't scientifically accurate?

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Kuniku's Avatar
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    did you take into account he's a jedi? =p

  10. #10
    Wouldn't light sabre's produce heat anyways?

  11. #11
    I can believe all the science stuff behind this, however it was very quickly ruled invalid when the person who wrote that got one fact about the scene in the movie very very wrong.....

    In the article he says "How much time does Han have to find shelter and save his friend who is also one-third of an ongoing love triangle?" He doesn't need much time at all. As he turns and begins to setup their tent right after he finishes placing luke in the belly. He also says quite clearly, "This might smell bad kid, but it will keep you warm till i get the shelter up". So with that one factual error he pretty much debunks the entire article.

    Now aside from that you can of course spit out the usual 'its science fiction' response and with it any number of explanations can given which the original article suggests some of. However we do not know the internal workings of this animal, its normal internal temp, and what temp it will collapse from hypothermia. We also do not know just how long it takes Han to setup the 'shelter', which is shown in the later scene having him climb out of it to wave down the pilot passing over him.
    ^^Everything said above is purely the opinion of the person who posted it. Nothing said is to be taken as fact unless otherwise stated, and even then only taken into consideration as fact, and not an actual fact, as it could be wrong or in other ways misinformed.

  12. #12
    The Unstoppable Force DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athorha View Post
    Wouldn't light sabre's produce heat anyways?
    Pretty sure they actually don't produce heat.
    "A flower.
    Yes. Upon your return, I will gift you a beautiful flower."

    "Remember. Remember... that we once lived..."

    Quote Originally Posted by mmocd061d7bab8 View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
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    I wonder how many people are going to come in here and say "Herp Derp, Starwars isn't REAL? Nowai !" as if they're clever.

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  14. #14
    Luke would have died from the smell alone! Lucky for him, he was unconcious.
    My Gaming Setup | WoW Paladin (retired)

    "This is not a dress. This is a sacred robe of the ancient psychedelic monks."

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Well not much math in there so hard to determine whatever or not it's actually closely calculated, but some important factors seems missing when being so scientific. It seems like they don't take into account that Luke's body is still generating heat. Also the skin of a Tauntaun might be pretty resistant temperature wise since it's accustomed to the cold clima. Luke himself is also wearing anything but your standard clothes, it's pretty safe to assume that its also some sort of cold resistant clothing.

    Also the force /thread

    Anyway doesn't take much more than an idiot to know that this is very unrealistic.

  16. #16
    Due to the cold environment a tautans natural habitat the body temp average would be around 50C and an increased body fat for metabolism activity in the environment would equate the tautan to create a sleeping bag environment for atleast 4 hours after death, well enough time for Han to create a snow cave or similar safe place.

    Also magic.

  17. #17
    You don't need to learn healing and meditative techniques in order to use them. The Force is often called upon instinctively in moments of great distress. I'm willing to bet Luke would have survived even if Han didn't show up to help him. If a Jedi can hold their breathe for days, (stated by Kreia in KOTOR 2) I don't think one as strong in the Force as Luke would have an issue with surviving freezing temperatures for the night.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    You don't need to learn healing and meditative techniques in order to use them. The Force is often called upon instinctively in moments of great distress. I'm willing to bet Luke would have survived even if Han didn't show up to help him. If a Jedi can hold their breathe for days, (stated by Kreia in KOTOR 2) I don't think one as strong in the Force as Luke would have an issue with surviving freezing temperatures for the night.
    Yep, the force can do some pretty neat things, especially in the right hands.



  19. #19
    Elemental Lord Flutterguy's Avatar
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    Someone actually took the time to disprove this?

  20. #20
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Putin khuliyo

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