Field of view

[Deleted]

So basically,

1) Deal with it

2) Deal with it

3) HAHA As if >_>

4) Be Rich

[Rife]

So basically,

1) Deal with it

2) Deal with it

3) HAHA As if >_>

4) Be Rich

More like:
Don't rely on developers to make adjustments that cater to your extreme minority problem in every game you play and instead be willing to either put up with it, or spend $350 on a monitor, or save up for a full eyefinity/surround setup.

If you can't spend $350 (actually less as you'd only be paying the difference between $350 and what you would pay for a normal monitor) to fix a problem by buying a good monitor, but can spend $60 on GW2 and $ on all the other games you play then either manage your finances better or don't play games anymore.
If you can afford it then you can fix your issue yourself. Simple as that.

The bottom line is that if you're PC gaming then you've already spent hundreds, if not thousands on a computer. If you have that kind of budget then $350 to fix your FoV problems forever isn't that much of a stretch.

[Lucky_]

@Rife: you still do not understand the problem, and as a result your solutions are solving the wrong problem.

Again - FoV is about two things only: size of the monitor and distance from eyes to the monitor. Things like resolution, width in relation to height and so on have no impact on FoV. If you have a mandated 60 degree frontal FoV per monitor, you'll have it regardless of using 640x480 or 5760x1080. Which means that person sensitive to distorted FoV will still throw all over his/her keyboard with any of your proposed solutions because none of them address the issue of FoV being unnatural, causing the symptoms.

The only "jury-rigged" solution is to adjust the distance from eyes to the monitor to match the FoV. In case of computer monitors, that typically means extending the distance by around 50%.

[Delias]

-snip-

Oh dear god, your logic hurts the hell out of my brain. Are you seriously saying "If you can afford GW2 for 60$, you should be able to afford spending 410$ on it"?

[Xuvial]

More like:
Don't rely on developers to make adjustments that cater to your extreme minority problem in every game you play and instead be willing to either put up with it, or spend $350 on a monitor, or save up for a full eyefinity/surround setup.

Firstly, it doesn't exist on "every game we play". Almost all games I own either have a decent FoV for PC's, or have the option to change the FoV ingame, or via a .cfg file, or with a third-party tool. GW2 is the first game I have come across that has no software fix - imagine if you had no option to adjust the resolution, or no option to adjust mouse/camera sensitivity, just told to play what you're given and enjoy the headaches.

Secondly, "extreme minority" my ass. Learn to back up your claims before you assume stuff.

edit: SOURCE

Research done at the University of Minnesota had students play Halo for less than an hour, and found that up to 50 percent felt sick afterwards.

In a study conducted by U.S. Army Research Institute for the Behavioral and Social Sciences in a report published May 1995 titled "Technical Report 1027 - Simulator Sickness in Virtual Environments", out of 742 pilot exposures from 11 military flight simulators, "approximately half of the pilots (334) reported post-effects of some kind: 250 (34%) reported that symptoms dissipated in less than 1 hour, 44 (6%) reported that symptoms lasted longer than 4 hours, and 28 (4%) reported that symptoms lasted longer than 6 hours. There were also 4 (1%) reported cases of spontaneously occurring flashbacks."

About 33% of people are susceptible to motion sickness even in mild circumstances such as being on a boat in calm water, although nearly 66% of people are susceptible in more severe conditions.


Simulation sickness is not some myth, nor is it experienced by just a minority. It's part of human biology.

[Delias]

Extreme minority my ass, learn to back up your claims before you assume stuff.

Worth noting, NONE of that source said anything about field of view, and was talking about video games in general... not just video games with a low FoV.

The most common theory for the cause of simulation sickness is that the illusion of motion created by the virtual world, combined with the absence of motion detected by the inner ear, causes the area postrema in the human brain to infer that one is hallucinating and further conclude that the hallucination is due to poison ingestion. The brain responds by inducing nausea and mass vomiting, to clear the supposed toxin.[7] According to this theory, simulation sickness is just another form of motion sickness.

[Xuvial]

Link? All of your links link to MMO-champion for some reason (oh, they're not even links anymore), would like to look at it myself.

Edited with source.

[Delias]

Edited mine with a reply, because what I had previously was irrelevant due to the source being linked and the broken links being removed. =P

[draykorinee]

I dont understand it even with all these videos, I dont know where this issue has come from, I get hideous car sickness and travel sickness but Ive never felt sick playing games. It sure does suck for people that do get it, but like Kelesti, I dont remember it ever being a problem before GW2 :S

[Rife]

Again - FoV is about two things only: size of the monitor and distance from eyes to the monitor.

So just get a bigger monitor and/or sit further back. Problem solved? That's even easier and cheaper than a multi-monitor setup.

If size of the monitor and viewing distance are the only variables then you are all complaining that Anet and other developers are not tailor making their games to the exact setup that you choose to play on, even down to how far back you're leaning in your chair or that you're playing on a monitor that's 10 years old and 800x600. Do you realise how utterly rediculous that is?

Oh dear god, your logic hurts the hell out of my brain. Are you seriously saying "If you can afford GW2 for 60$, you should be able to afford spending 410$ on it"?

I'm saying that if you can't afford solutions then you shouldn't be gaming on PC's if FoV is such a debiliating problem for you. Go play on something else. If you can afford it then fix it. It's not an ungodly cost considering the average reader of this post has probably spent $1000-$1500 on their computer.

I'm also saying that if you can't afford to fix it yourself then you're shit out of luck (at the moment) and the better solution, if you can afford it, is to save up and solve your own problem rather than always hoping that X new games FoV isn't going to make you vommit. The posts in this thread and the trend of the last few years is any indication, this is going to be getting worse, not better in the near future.

Here's some of that debiltating logic for you:
Developers over the years have been reducing FoV in games intentionally because it allows for higher FPS and better overall performance.
You can resolve your issue by getting a bigger screen or upgrading to a higher resolution or adjusting your viewing distance. This might add 10-20% to the cost of your PC gaming setup.
OR
You can keep buying monitors that aren't suitable for your FoV requirements and cry to developers along with the other 1% of players in your boat and hope like hell that they answer your prayers and fix your problem, until the next game you pickup and the process starts again.

How is option 2 working out for you?

[Xuvial]

Worth noting, NONE of that source said anything about field of view, and was talking about video games in general... not just video games with a low FoV.

But what are you implying here? That you disagree with my source, or that you disagree that low FoV is an extremely common cause simulation sickness? I'm pretty sure it was Halo's FoV that caused it, and also the flight simulators where pilots experienced sickness were not properly set up with realistic surround screenes with a 180-degree FoV.

This is what Halo's FoV looked like:


I'm already feeling sick looking at that image lol.

A shaky/jerky camera makes the effect twice as bad, the lack of pheripheral vision doesn't help.
The vestibular system pretty much asks the brain "what the fuck is going on, are your eyes going crazy? And where's the peripheral vision gone?" and the brain replies "no idea, the body must be poisoned making this guy hallucinate. Quick, throw up!"

I'm saying that if you can't afford solutions then you shouldn't be gaming on PC's if FoV is such a debiliating problem for you. Go play on something else.

You can keep buying monitors that aren't suitable for your FoV requirements and cry to developers along with the other 1% of players in your boat and hope like hell that they answer your prayers and fix your problem, until the next game you pickup and the process starts again.

edit: I also like how this Rife guy completely ignored my post/evidence and simply rambled on with more made-up nonsense.

[Kelesti]

I'm already feeling sick looking at that image lol.

Then maybe gaming isn't for you, lol?

[Delias]

How is option 2 working out for you?

You're fully aware that I do not have this issue and still think you're an idiot, correct? You expect people to spend 350$ on monitors (note, this isn't including buying a video card that will efficiently run a game at that resolution) to run a 60$ game, when this game is one of the few without an FoV slider? (unless we look at third person games, since VERY few of them have it. Not sure why this is suddenly a complaint. Whatever)

But what are you implying here? That you disagree with my source,

This.

or that you disagree that low FoV is an extremely common cause simulation sickness?

This too.
I think you guys are going overboard with your "It's super common! It effects more than 50% of gamers! FoV would solve all problems all gamer have everrrrr!"
As much as I enjoy watching TB's videos, the fact that he has an issue doesn't suddenly make it a super widespread issue than effects everyone. Also, it's worth noting that he did not even mention it in any of his GW2 related videos.

I'm pretty sure it was Halo's FoV that caused it, and also the flight simulators where pilots experienced sickness were not properly set up with realistic surround screenes with a 180-degree FoV.

That's nice. Being "pretty sure" that's what caused it doesn't suddenly make the study about FoV.

[Xuvial]

Then maybe gaming isn't for you, lol?

That was taken from a console and I was trying to make a point.

I personally haven't come across any PC games that have their FoV set so incredibly low and inadjustable, so maybe you would think twice before telling someone who's been gaming on nothing but PC's since the Earthworm Jim days that "gaming isn't for you"

---------- Post added 2012-08-20 at 06:05 AM ----------

or that you disagree that low FoV is an extremely common cause simulation sickness?

This too.

That 18-page FoV thread on GW2Guru forums must be full of liars then, who simply like making a fuss out of nothing and are posting for giggles.

I also have to factor in that since you've never experienced the issue, you don't care about the issue and can therefore further deny it's existance (or the extent of it's impact) by automatic bias. Fair enough, it's understandable.

[Rife]

Eh, I'm getting the impression that FoV is not the issue here at all.

I never heard anything about Halo being a nightmare to play due to a small viewing window or lack of peripheral vision until this thread, that apparently makes it out to be a HUGE issue that affected half of the players. I find this hard to believe.

Field of view is viewing angle available to the player. 90 FoV means you can see 45 degrees to left of center and 45 degrees to right of center. If this is your issue than get a higher resolution monitor or more monitors. If this isn't your problem then FoV is not your issue.

And simply quoting a source that claims 50% of participants experience adverse affects to.... what exactly? What was their FoV in those tests? What was thier monitor/display setup like? What was the lighting like? Did they get motion sickness? How big was their display? Resolution? Aspect Ratio? What exactly are "effects of somekind" that 50% of them experienced? Did they vommit? Did they get dizzy? Hungry?

If FoV was really such a hair trigger problem then how do people use microscopes, or telescopes, or look out of a window from 10 feet? How do 50% of all people on the planet wear sunglasses that cut off their peripheral vision? Most of the posters in this thread are acting like if they look at a monitor sideways they'll become deathly ill and it's Anet's problem to handle.

[Delias]

I also have to factor in that since you've never experienced the issue, you don't care about the issue and can therefore further deny it's existance (or the extent of it's impact) by automatic bias. Fair enough, it's understandable.

Back to this childish reasoning again? You seem to be missing my point: yes a FoV slider should be added to the game if it is causing people problems, but the people saying it effects a huge amount of the playerbase are exaggerating the living hell out of it. You (and others) seem to be under the impression that it effects a huge percentage of the playerbase, which is simply false. If it is effecting ANYONE negatively it should be fixed. But again, it is not effecting that many people, so stop saying it is.

[Nexrex]

I find the way you phrased your opening sentence pretty hilarious; "I sure won't keep playing a game that does this to me". As if Anet is deliberately working against your needs as a gamer by chosing to use the FoV they use. Also, you've already bought the game so whatever you do from now makes no difference to Anet. Play or don't play, fix your issue or don't. Make your choices and stop whining about Anet not fixing an issue you could fix yourself.

The vast majority of players don't have a FoV problem, either. There is nothing that states the game must have a certain FoV or cater to a few people who shouldn't be gaming at all if they have such huge issues with staring at a monitor on their desk unless it has very specific properties.

People who get ill by looking at a screen should have realised when they started gaming that an eyefinity/surround setup would solve all of their purported problems without needing to rely on developers to cater to their personal problems. So why the hell would so many people choose to rely on developers to fix their problems when they could so easily fix it themselves?

I don't understand this shit at all.

That's like saying people in Africa should be quiet about the need for fresh clean water cause in Europe we got plenty.

[Xuvial]

And simply quoting a source that claims 50% of participants experience adverse affects to.... what exactly? What was their FoV in those tests? What was thier monitor/display setup like? What was the lighting like? Did they get motion sickness? How big was their display? Resolution? Aspect Ratio? What exactly are "effects of somekind" that 50% of them experienced? Did they vommit? Did they get dizzy? Hungry?

Please tell me what OTHER than FoV could have caused them to experience simulation sickness. Would love to hear it. Because they certainly felt something and it wasn't good. I doubt it was the poisoned doughnuts all the test subjects ate just before the test.

If FoV was really such a hair trigger problem then how do people use microscopes, or telescopes, or look out of a window from 10 feet? How do 50% of all people on the planet wear sunglasses that cut off their peripheral vision?

Microscope? Telecope? Window? Sunglasses?? LOL that's called shooting yourself in the foot, it pretty much confirms you have no idea what FoV is and how it works in gaming vs real life.

These have already been posted more than once, watch them till you figure out why all your above examples make no sense:

[Rife]

Please tell me what OTHER than FoV could have caused them to experience simulation sickness. Would love to hear it. Because they certainly felt something and it wasn't good. I doubt it was the poisoned doughnuts all the test subjects ate just before the test.

You qouted a source that didn't mention FoV at all while managing to convince yourself it was the cause. You're asking me to prove a negative.

It's not for me to prove that FoV wasn't involved, it's for you to prove it was. That source didn't mention it at all.

Limited FoV being the cause of all sickness/monitor/gaming problems is not the default position. Stop acting like it is. It makes you look stupid.

I still don't see how the bottom line has changed though? People in this thread can't even agree on what FoV is and yet you expect Anet to fix it? Good luck with that one.

Has anyone here with FoV problems tried GW2 in eyefinity/surround? Has anyone ever had problems with FoV on a multi-monitor setup in any game? Has anyone here with FoV issues tried their friends monitors/setup?

There needs to be more than "DAMMIT ANET I GET WOOZY WHEN I PLAY GW2 AND YOU NEED TO FIX IT BECAUSE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!".

[Nexrex]

To those who still question the need for a FoV changer in the game:
Please go through this thread and read links provided and watch videos provided.
Understand the actual facts of FoV. What it is and what it isn't.
Then look at your arguments and so called solutions and realize the flaw.
Then think about the fact that FoV changing is already part of the code in the game since it can be manipulated (works on certain setups or by going windowed mode and shifting the size of the window).
Then ask yourself "since its already a part of the game, would a manual slider hurt me in any way?" and "would it help those who have issues?".
If you can answer those questions after informing and educating yourself on the issue honestly and with a smidgen of sympathy, then you will have become a smarter and more enlightened human in mere minutes.
Congratulations.