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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by Alviarin View Post
    You can try to cast your FoF at 9-10 stacks of the buff, and in so doing extend the trinket's duration artificially. It's not half bad.
    FoF doesn't snapshot.

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by Moozhe View Post
    FoF doesn't snapshot.
    Pretty sure it does for certain things like buffs (TeB (need to double check), trinket procs) but not for Tiger Palm, Skull Banner, or debuffs on the target.

    Let's take these 2 logs extracts as an example :

    [23:46:55.812] Hyomin gains Blades from Hyomin
    [23:46:57.875] Hyomin gains Blades (2) from Hyomin
    [23:46:59.823] Hyomin gains Blades (3) from Hyomin
    [23:47:01.826] Hyomin gains Blades (4) from Hyomin
    [23:47:03.822] Hyomin gains Blades (5) from Hyomin
    [23:47:05.816] Hyomin gains Blades (6) from Hyomin
    [23:47:07.824] Hyomin gains Blades (7) from Hyomin
    [23:47:09.808] Hyomin gains Blades (8) from Hyomin
    [23:47:11.821] Hyomin gains Blades (9) from Hyomin
    [23:47:13.815] Hyomin gains Blades (10) from Hyomin
    [23:47:15.279] Hyomin gains Fists of Fury from Hyomin
    [23:47:15.279] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten Immune
    [23:47:15.279] Hyomin casts Fists of Fury
    [23:47:15.618] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten *203179*
    [23:47:15.822] Hyomin's Blades fades from Hyomin
    [23:47:16.154] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten Immune
    [23:47:16.460] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten 98631
    [23:47:17.023] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten Immune
    [23:47:17.366] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten 98631
    [23:47:17.864] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten Immune
    [23:47:18.162] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten *203178*
    [23:47:18.737] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten Immune
    [23:47:18.737] Hyomin's Fists of Fury fades from Hyomin
    [23:47:18.979] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten *203179*

    Damage remains the same after the buff faded.

    Other example :

    [23:48:01.188] Hyomin gains Blades from Hyomin
    [23:48:03.203] Hyomin gains Blades (2) from Hyomin
    [23:48:05.268] Hyomin gains Blades (3) from Hyomin
    [23:48:07.233] Hyomin gains Blades (4) from Hyomin
    [23:48:09.241] Hyomin gains Blades (5) from Hyomin
    [23:48:11.186] Hyomin gains Blades (6) from Hyomin
    [23:48:13.185] Hyomin gains Blades (7) from Hyomin
    [23:48:15.186] Hyomin gains Blades (8) from Hyomin
    [23:48:17.176] Hyomin gains Blades (9) from Hyomin
    [23:48:17.288] Hyomin gains Fists of Fury from Hyomin
    [23:48:17.288] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten Immune
    [23:48:17.310] Hyomin casts Fists of Fury
    [23:48:17.676] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten 98387
    [23:48:18.187] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten Immune
    [23:48:18.488] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten *202678*
    [23:48:19.023] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten Immune
    [23:48:19.187] Hyomin gains Blades (10) from Hyomin
    [23:48:19.285] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten *202678*
    [23:48:19.868] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten Immune
    [23:48:20.118] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten 98387
    [23:48:20.742] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten Immune
    [23:48:20.742] Hyomin's Fists of Fury fades from Hyomin
    [23:48:20.968] Hyomin Fists of Fury Durumu the Forgotten *202678*
    [23:48:21.192] Hyomin's Blades fades from Hyomin


    Damage didn't increase when I gained a buff stack.

  3. #703
    High Overlord Gulvan's Avatar
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    Based one what other people were telling me with these type of scaling trinkets, they are pretty freaking good as far as how often they are up. Even those it has a crap ton of EXP, ill be picked up one if we get it tonight on H Jinrokh
    Host of Monkcraft Podcast and Co-Host of Groupquest

  4. #704
    Deleted
    About weapons. I got upgraded normal fist from empress and garajal hc. Should i get 2x 522 weapon OR one 522 weapon to maindhand and keep empress weapon on off hand so i get 500 agi from lege gem?

  5. #705
    So, we have a lot of speculation about which stat best for our current gear. But, where our final ver. BiS gear list?

  6. #706
    How do you think we can establish a "final" BiS List when we don't have a definitive answer regarding our stats ? :P

  7. #707
    -At the moment, we have determined that haste have 6776 soft cap

    -Crit better than mastery in 5.1 end game gear, until we reached 4 T15 pieces

    Based on this information, we can reach a conclusion about stat priority

    end game T14 gear model:
    hit\exp cap>6776 hase>crit 34-35%(with Terror in the Mists trinket)> master 3%+

    end game t15 gear model
    hit\exp cap>6776 hase>master (with 4t15 and Rune of Re-Origination trinket )> crit

    These information based on many discussions on elitistjerks.com\mmo-champion sites Windwalker forum themes
    Last edited by samadxi; 2013-03-12 at 10:58 PM.

  8. #708
    Deleted
    Someone did question it already some pages ago but there was no real answer.

    I got 4 trinkets. Heroic elegon,terror ilvl 504,xuen 484 and I can get the shado pan 522 trinket. Which combination is the best? I am currently using terror in the mist and elegon trinket. Also it wont be possible for me to get heroic terror.
    Last edited by mmoc1eb82950b6; 2013-03-13 at 12:43 AM.

  9. #709
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by pkcross View Post
    Someone did question it already some pages ago but there was no real answer.

    I got 4 trinkets. Heroic elegon,terror ilvl 504,xuen 484 and I can get the shado pan 522 trinket. Which combination is the best? I am currently using terror in the mist and elegon trinket. Also it wont be possible for me to get heroic terror.
    Heroic Elegon and Shado-pan 522 trinket are the best two out of those.

  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by Thisisanalt View Post
    Heroic Elegon and Shado-pan 522 trinket are the best two out of those.
    About that, what about normal upgraded elegon and xuen upgraded? I want to change one of them with the rep 522, probably xuen, right?

  11. #711
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by manu9 View Post
    About that, what about normal upgraded elegon and xuen upgraded? I want to change one of them with the rep 522, probably xuen, right?
    if I remember correctly 2/2 normal bottle was better than 2/2 Xuen, the rep trinket will be a significant upgrade over Xuen so it's a good choice to replace it.

  12. #712
    i need a little help, i have the shadopan assault trinket, the elegon and lei shi lfr trinket, who is the better trinket combo? shadopan+leishilfr o shadopan+elegonlfr
    Last edited by Bijohx; 2013-03-13 at 03:20 AM.

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryanlol View Post
    While I can see why it might seem like Bad Juju is a good bet, it's worth remembering that Renataki's has 3 things that Bad Juju doesn't.

    1. 0.56 RPPM which is ~12% more proc rate.

    2. 22 sec ICD, so it will never overwrite (probably the reason for the extra proc rate).

    3. Still more average agility than Bad Juju, even if you don't take the Agility peaking into account. Just because we can't make perfect use of the Agility peak does not mean that the proc is any less powerful. Because it isn't.

    As far as I can tell, Bad Juju is designed to do 2 things: fool bad players and be an option for people that cannot stay below expertise cap.

    Well, that and create some variance in player gearing via accidental thunderforged and such.
    I'd like to argue here that the passive mastery on that trinket makes Bad JuJu still way better then Renataki's.

  14. #714
    Deleted
    Im gonna assume the shado pan assault trinket is better then relic of xuen?

  15. #715
    Deleted
    One question guys.

    I got the staff from Horridon, "Jalak's Maelstrom Staff".

    Is it better than the combination of Claw of the Shekzerr and Gara'kal ?

    Should i replace ?Also just to add that they are all LFR ilv.

    Finally i wonder if the stat priority order changes with Two Handed weapons.Currently i run with Haste Mastery and Crit.
    Last edited by mmoc21b9eae572; 2013-03-13 at 02:55 PM.

  16. #716
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by samadxi View Post
    -At the moment, we have determined that haste have 6776 soft cap

    -Crit better than mastery in 5.1 end game gear, until we reached 4 T15 pieces

    Based on this information, we can reach a conclusion about stat priority

    end game T14 gear model:
    hit\exp cap>6776 hase>crit 34-35%(with Terror in the Mists trinket)> master 3%+

    end game t15 gear model
    hit\exp cap>6776 hase>master (with 4t15 and Rune of Re-Origination trinket )> crit

    These information based on many discussions on elitistjerks.com\mmo-champion sites Windwalker forum themes
    Is that the haste softcap with or without Ascension?

  17. #717
    Quote Originally Posted by Uthaslol View Post
    Is that the haste softcap with or without Ascension?
    Yes, this is haste soft cap with Ascension talant

  18. #718
    Quote Originally Posted by samadxi View Post
    -At the moment, we have determined that haste have 6776 soft cap

    -Crit better than mastery in 5.1 end game gear, until we reached 4 T15 pieces

    Based on this information, we can reach a conclusion about stat priority

    end game T14 gear model:
    hit\exp cap>6776 hase>crit 34-35%(with Terror in the Mists trinket)> master 3%+

    end game t15 gear model
    hit\exp cap>6776 hase>master (with 4t15 and Rune of Re-Origination trinket )> crit

    These information based on many discussions on elitistjerks.com\mmo-champion sites Windwalker forum themes
    I really don't think you would want to stack mastery when you have the Rune of Re-Origination trinket. It seems like you're suggesting having something like 6776 haste, 10k mastery and 4k crit as an example.

    You will be popping Tigereye Brew during Rune of Re-Origination procs whenever possible. Therefore, 1 point of Critical Strike Rating would increase your critical strike chance most of the time while also providing 2 points of mastery rating during Tigereye Brew procs.

    If you consider Rune of Re-Origination has about a 1RPPM proc rate (plus or minus depending on ilvl version) with a 10 second duration then we can say that it will have an uptime of around 16.6%. So 1 unit of Critical Strike Rating would give you the following:

    - 1 Critical Strike Rating 83.4% of the time
    - 2 Mastery Rating for a percentage of all Tigereye Brew stacks consumed (maybe 50%?)

    On the other hand, 1 point of mastery rating on your gear would only give you 1 mastery rating for every stack of TEB you gain. Having 2 mastery rating 50% of the time is on its own equal to having 1 mastery rating 100% of the time. The extra crit rating you benefit from the other 83.4% of the time is just a bonus.

    The difficult thing to calculate here is to figure out in practice how many of our TEB stacks generated end up being spent during Rune of Re-Origination, and how many don't. If you're waiting on a Rune proc and you reach 20 stacks of Tigereye Brew, you'll probably pop 10 stacks to keep from wasting them. Stack generation is going to depend on the fight, 4pT15 procs, and our haste rating. I think on average we'll probably spend 40-60% of our total Tigereye Brew stacks gained during Rune of Re-Origination.

    I think the only question is whether we keep our haste and crit even in favor of a higher mastery on Rune of Re-Origination proc, or whether we allow one to get much higher than the other if we feel one stat is better than another. For example, at a low gear level we might want more haste than crit while keeping mastery just above our haste. At a very high gear level we might want more crit than haste to minimize wasted energy, and keep mastery just above crit.

    One thing to keep in mind about our estimated 6776 haste softcap is that it doesn't account for the energy loss from Rune of Re-Origination 16.6% of the time. When our haste rating is frequently dipping to 0 we will want a lot of it so we can recover from the gap in energy generation quickly. This is why I think we will always want to maintain close to a 1:1:1 ratio on our secondary stats even if it means going a bit over the 6776 haste softcap.

    Another thing we can do if maintaining a 1:1:1 ratio means our haste rating is getting too high is we can simply switch to Power Strikes which maintains a similar chi generation while allowing for a higher haste rating. It boldly goes places Ascension cannot go.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 03:16 PM ----------

    Regarding my question of how many of our Tigereye Brew charges will benefit from Rune of Re-Origination in practice:

    Here is a log of a Windwalker monk with Rune of Re-Origination in a 4 minute fight with Jin'rokh:

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2b...?s=2642&e=2884
    Courtesy of Invection <WHATEVER WERE AWESOME>

    By filtering for Tigereye Brew and Re-Origination I can see that in this example he spent 100% of his Tigereye Brew stacks during Re-Origination. That's a lot more than the 50% I guessed it might be.

    Though he may have been worrying more about the mechanics of the fight and not optimizing his stack generation. As far as I can tell he spent 69 globals on Jab/EH in a 4 minute fight. I would think we could fill more globals than that if we stack enough haste to minimize FoF/Chi Wave. For example, he cast 9 Chi Waves but was only getting an average of 1.9 damaging hits per use of it. But at the same time the extra TEB stacks generated from doing so would probably result in us having to pop TEB outside of Rune of Re-Origination some of the time.

    Maybe we should aim to have enough haste to sync our TEB stack generation with the RPPM rate of our Rune of Re-Origination, and have more downtime to fill with FoF/Chi Wave? Maybe, but I don't think so. With FoF not being useful on many fights due to the mechanics, Chi Wave going from being very buggy to somewhat buggy, I think probably we should just focus on high haste stack generation.

    I really wish some of these lucky few would upload some logs of tank and spank fights like LFR Feng or Gara'jal. I'm looking at you, Runnmonk and Gondlem.
    Last edited by Moozhe; 2013-03-13 at 07:32 PM.

  19. #719
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Moozhe View Post
    I really don't think you would want to stack mastery when you have the Rune of Re-Origination trinket. It seems like you're suggesting having something like 6776 haste, 10k mastery and 4k crit as an example.

    You will be popping Tigereye Brew during Rune of Re-Origination procs whenever possible. Therefore, 1 point of Critical Strike Rating would increase your critical strike chance most of the time while also providing 2 points of mastery rating during Tigereye Brew procs.

    If you consider Rune of Re-Origination has about a 1RPPM proc rate (plus or minus depending on ilvl version) with a 10 second duration then we can say that it will have an uptime of around 16.6%. So 1 unit of Critical Strike Rating would give you the following:

    - 1 Critical Strike Rating 83.4% of the time
    - 2 Mastery Rating for a percentage of all Tigereye Brew stacks consumed (maybe 50%?)

    On the other hand, 1 point of mastery rating on your gear would only give you 1 mastery rating for every stack of TEB you gain. Having 2 mastery rating 50% of the time is on its own equal to having 1 mastery rating 100% of the time. The extra crit rating you benefit from the other 83.4% of the time is just a bonus.

    The difficult thing to calculate here is to figure out in practice how many of our TEB stacks generated end up being spent during Rune of Re-Origination, and how many don't. If you're waiting on a Rune proc and you reach 20 stacks of Tigereye Brew, you'll probably pop 10 stacks to keep from wasting them. Stack generation is going to depend on the fight, 4pT15 procs, and our haste rating. I think on average we'll probably spend 40-60% of our total Tigereye Brew stacks gained during Rune of Re-Origination.

    I think the only question is whether we keep our haste and crit even in favor of a higher mastery on Rune of Re-Origination proc, or whether we allow one to get much higher than the other if we feel one stat is better than another. For example, at a low gear level we might want more haste than crit while keeping mastery just above our haste. At a very high gear level we might want more crit than haste to minimize wasted energy, and keep mastery just above crit.

    One thing to keep in mind about our estimated 6776 haste softcap is that it doesn't account for the energy loss from Rune of Re-Origination 16.6% of the time. When our haste rating is frequently dipping to 0 we will want a lot of it so we can recover from the gap in energy generation quickly. This is why I think we will always want to maintain close to a 1:1:1 ratio on our secondary stats even if it means going a bit over the 6776 haste softcap.

    Another thing we can do if maintaining a 1:1:1 ratio means our haste rating is getting too high is we can simply switch to Power Strikes which maintains a similar chi generation while allowing for a higher haste rating. It boldly goes places Ascension cannot go.
    To my understanding you want to use TeB close to as soon as Rune of Re-Origination procs and immidiatly cancel the Rune of Re-Origination after that as TeB doesn't seem to scale dynamicly. (Might have changed late PTR - early live) So its uptime will be lower then the 16.6% calculated, so that dip to 0 haste will be less then that. I do agree with the rest though.

  20. #720
    Quote Originally Posted by Uthaslol View Post
    To my understanding you want to use TeB close to as soon as Rune of Re-Origination procs and immidiatly cancel the Rune of Re-Origination after that as TeB doesn't seem to scale dynamicly. (Might have changed late PTR - early live) So its uptime will be lower then the 16.6% calculated, so that dip to 0 haste will be less then that. I do agree with the rest though.
    Cannot cancel the proc.

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