The Teachings of Xuen: A Windwalker PvE Guide

[gahddo]

Mihir, I came across an interesting conclusion when running weights for my monk. Crit appears to not only be better for patchwerk with 2pc, but in a balance with haste for preraid gear levels. It appears that haste becomes very much more valuable as weapon dps increases, which makes logical sense. Once I get an lfr or higher weapon I'll be going haste because I do understand how unusable FoF is in its current state, hope they fix the fact that its only worth 1.12% dps WITH TWO PIECE.

[Deleted]

Where does this list come from? Some values seem really strange. E.g. Bottle 476 -> Bottle 489 = 102, while Bottle 489 -> Bottle 502 = 603. And Xuen / Jade Bandit Figurine seem a bit low compared to others, mostly because of the huge ICD of Terror and the suboptimal stats on Bottle.

I ran a bunch of sims in simcraft.. tho looking at it now i probably flipped the values of the raidfinder trinkets.

[Kayvas]

so, i just read 11 pages but still haven't understand how to deal with FoF, if i have 3 or 4 chi and i will not cap energy using FoF AND i'm 100% sure i dont have to move i should use it right?

whould i use tegereye brew before i use FoF ( 9/10 stacks ) or should save it for a RSK + normal rotation?

[Felade]

Fists of Fury checklist:

- Tiger Palm won't fall off
- Energy won't cap
- Rising Sun Kick won't come off CD
- You have 3+ Chi
- Target won't leave your melee range during the cast

In other words, don't fret too much if you can't use FoF every time it comes off CD. Be on the lookout for opportunities to use it - they DO happen.

Of course, the 2pc bonus is absolutely horrible and worthless - not because FoF is necessarily a bad spell, just that it IS almost impossible to use it on CD without losing too much DPS in the process.

[JakeXP]

Hello. I'm currently playing a Windwalker Monk and I had a couple of questions regarding stats.

The first of which is regarding gemming. You've mentioned in your guide to gem for full agility, i.e flat agility in red sockets and agility/haste in yellow etc. I've noticed that a couple of sources suggest gemming full haste, going for flat haste in yellow and then agi/haste in red sockets. What's the deal with this? Is this a legitimate way to gem or are they slightly misinformed?

The second question I had in mind was regarding the value of haste in general. I originally noticed by looking at your armory, Mihir, that you have a fairly even balance between haste and crit, then I checked your guide again today and it states to begin prioritising crit around the 6k haste mark. Does this haste value take into account any raid buffs or is it 6k unbuffed haste?

Thank you.

[Deleted]

All values should be given only for your gear. Means: ~6k unbuffed haste. Since it's a PvE guide, it focusses mostly on a fully buffed scenario in the stat value section. Though this hangs a bit in the balance right now, mostly because simcraft shows up some strange values and BiS templates in the last build (as discussed in the previous pages). Just take everything that hasn't mastery on it and you're on the safe side.

According to gemming: I've seen both (full haste or full agi) in different guides. According to simulations, the latter is better, as written in the guide here. It may be different at very low gear levels, where you have almost no haste to push your buttons, but under normal conditions just gem for agility and take useful socket bonusses.

[Deleted]

Hello. I'm currently playing a Windwalker Monk and I had a couple of questions regarding stats.

The first of which is regarding gemming. You've mentioned in your guide to gem for full agility, i.e flat agility in red sockets and agility/haste in yellow etc. I've noticed that a couple of sources suggest gemming full haste, going for flat haste in yellow and then agi/haste in red sockets. What's the deal with this? Is this a legitimate way to gem or are they slightly misinformed?

The second question I had in mind was regarding the value of haste in general. I originally noticed by looking at your armory, Mihir, that you have a fairly even balance between haste and crit, then I checked your guide again today and it states to begin prioritising crit around the 6k haste mark. Does this haste value take into account any raid buffs or is it 6k unbuffed haste?

Thank you.

I haven't seen a single sim result yet that puts agi at less than 2x the value of haste, so I wouldn't recommend gemming fullout haste. Especially since the value of crit goes up rapidly once you get above 5k haste. (the only place ive seen haste being recommended over agi was the default AMR stat weights, which are based on an old version of simcraft)

[gahddo]

Just pointing out, if you're going to be basing your weights off not using FoF perfectly, like the sim uses it, you should lean closer to haste passed the 6600 threshold mihir. There's currently no way to set the simc action list to NOT CAST FoF if movement will occur during its duration. This is causing it to lose ticks during movement events rendering the test essentially useless. Trying to work on that but in the meantime I wouldn't trust the original 6.6-6.7k estimate we gave you without the 2pc, as it was mostly related to fists of fury usage. Haste *clearly* dominates if you don't use FoF at all during an encounter.

[Alhoon]

Determining your stat weights with SimC when not using FoF is actually very easy. In SimC, use Import functionality to import from your Armory. You'll get a long text file, you only need to comment out one line by putting #-mark in front of it. The line is:

actions.st+=/fists_of_fury,if=!buff.energizing_brew.up&energy.time_to_max>(cast_time)&buff.tiger_power.remains>(cast_time)&buff.tiger_power.stack=3

You can also determine how much DPS loss it is to not use FoF by running one simulation without commenting the said line and one with commenting it.

[masterprtzl]

I havent seen much talk on 2hander vs dual wield. Would a 463 2 hander be > 450 dual wielding?


How do the two match up vs eachother. Would it be worth passing on 1 handers if we had rogue/enhance in raid assuming I could get the polearm?

[gahddo]

I havent seen much talk on 2hander vs dual wield. Would a 463 2 hander be > 450 dual wielding?


How do the two match up vs eachother. Would it be worth passing on 1 handers if we had rogue/enhance in raid assuming I could get the polearm?

2H dps does perfectly fine up until you get towards heroic ilvl, at which point dw drastically outscales it. You'll be losing A LOT of dps going for a heroic 2h over heroic dw. Until then though, the 463 2h would be better, its pretty even at pre-raid gear levels.

[masterprtzl]

2H dps does perfectly fine up until you get towards heroic ilvl, at which point dw drastically outscales it. You'll be losing A LOT of dps going for a heroic 2h over heroic dw. Until then though, the 463 2h would be better, its pretty even at pre-raid gear levels.

Thanks, thats what i was looking for.

[Deleted]

Just pointing out, if you're going to be basing your weights off not using FoF perfectly, like the sim uses it, you should lean closer to haste passed the 6600 threshold mihir. There's currently no way to set the simc action list to NOT CAST FoF if movement will occur during its duration. This is causing it to lose ticks during movement events rendering the test essentially useless. Trying to work on that but in the meantime I wouldn't trust the original 6.6-6.7k estimate we gave you without the 2pc, as it was mostly related to fists of fury usage. Haste *clearly* dominates if you don't use FoF at all during an encounter.

Good point; i probably should list 2 sets of stat values, 1 with FoF on cooldown and 1 with FoF only used a couple of times (once per minute or similar).

[Deleted]

Hey is it possible to get a final list of the trinkets ? You said u switched somethin on the prior page , also i got a whole other list form EJ ;/

[Deleted]

The EJ list was done using manual calculations, my list is based on simcraft results. So pick whichever style you prefer



In other news, I managed to kill myself today with Zen Meditation on Spirit Kings....

Apparently the ZM spell redirect works on the DoT you get from attacking Meng the Demented when he's reflecting damage. I popped ZM when he had 80 insanity since i was low on health, but instead of saving me it killed me in a few seconds....

Logs:

[19:55:24.108] Mihir casts Zen Meditation
[19:55:24.108] Mihir gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Antikz gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Grondath gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Hennyox gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Noui gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Valkyrián gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Shadowfax gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Equity gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Sevillia gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Elfý gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Lvazquez gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Necrolus gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Wormiexx gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Adaqeu gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Miroo gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Jackwar gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Halby gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Primal Earth Elemental gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Frankstêr gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292]  Luun gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Ganaza gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Troidz gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Wreckér gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Brocktree gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Irowyn gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.292] Rojux gains Zen Meditation from Mihir
[19:55:24.677] Unknown Cowardice Mihir Absorb (6370)
[19:55:24.932] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:24.932] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:24.932] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:24.932] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:25.119] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:25.152] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:25.356] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:25.356] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:25.356] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Shadowfax
[19:55:25.498] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:25.601] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:25.603] Unknown Cowardice Mihir 5419 (A: 3738)
[19:55:25.751] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:25.751] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:25.751] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:25.751] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:25.940] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:26.084] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:26.084] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:26.086] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:26.192] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Brocktree
[19:55:26.280] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:26.571] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:26.571] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:26.713] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:26.713] Unknown Cowardice Mihir 7044
[19:55:26.713] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:26.713] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:26.795] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:26.795] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:26.993] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.158] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.158] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.158] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.240] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.241] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.241] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.378] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.490] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.490] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.690] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.690] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.693] Unknown Cowardice Mihir 12507
[19:55:27.693] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.693] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.871] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:27.976] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:28.130] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:28.208] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:28.388] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:28.388] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:28.388] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:28.388] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:28.515] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:28.515] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:28.719] Unknown Cowardice Mihir 17183
[19:55:28.719] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:28.896] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:28.896] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:29.132] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:29.340] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:29.340] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:29.340] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:29.551] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:29.551] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:29.613] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:29.613] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:29.798] Unknown Cowardice Mihir 8007 (A: 13731)
[19:55:29.798] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:29.799] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:29.955] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:30.126] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:30.126] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:30.126] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:30.126] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:30.126] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:30.126] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:30.193] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:30.193] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:30.302] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:30.302] Mihir's Cowardice is refreshed
[19:55:30.791] Unknown Cowardice Mihir 24528
[19:55:31.702] Unknown Cowardice Mihir 24528
[19:55:32.194] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Mihir
[19:55:32.264] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Antikz
[19:55:32.264] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Grondath
[19:55:32.264] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Hennyox
[19:55:32.264] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Noui
[19:55:32.264] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Valkyrián
[19:55:32.264] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Equity
[19:55:32.264] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Sevillia
[19:55:32.264] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Elfý
[19:55:32.264] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Lvazquez
[19:55:32.264] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Necrolus
[19:55:32.264] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Wormiexx
[19:55:32.264] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Adaqeu
[19:55:32.264] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Miroo
[19:55:32.307] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Halby
[19:55:32.307] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Primal Earth Elemental
[19:55:32.307] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Frankstêr
[19:55:32.307] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from  Luun
[19:55:32.307] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Ganaza
[19:55:32.307] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Troidz
[19:55:32.307] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Wreckér
[19:55:32.307] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Irowyn
[19:55:32.307] Mihir's Zen Meditation fades from Rojux
[19:55:32.638] Unknown Cowardice Mihir 200802 (O: 44478)
[19:55:32.672] Mihir dies

[Alhoon]

If we assume the PTR patchnotes on front page are not datamining errors, we'll be receiving 10% extra movement speed from our Stance. Very strange, considering all passive movement speed increases are 15% and the one from boots is 7% if I'm not mistaken. If it stacks with boots enchant, then it's great, but if it doesn't, it's essentially 3% passive movement speed increase, which is next to nothing when the spec has so much mobility on demand.

Probably our biggest change, Tiger Palm seems to be one stack straight to 30%, no more stacking it to 3. Not entirely sure what I think about that, considering our DPS priorities are very straightforward already. But it's a slight buff I guess.

Also Ascension got buffed to actually provide an advantage now. Theorycrafters will determine whether it's better than Power Strikes or Chi Brew, but if it is, I doubt it'll remain like that when the patch goes live. Nevertheless, it's a nice change to keep the talents in line.

[Deleted]

Iirc, you can remove Cowardice with Diffuse Magic. And if I'm reading your log right, you did channel Zen Meditation for it's ful duration, so it seems to take all of the debuffs of your raid without breaking. So it should be possible to take the damage of your whole raid and just dispel it at the end the moment Zen Meditation runs out.
Too bad the source is "Unknown" and not the boss, would be nice to stack a debuff for some hundred k damage extra on him.

[Hinalover]

If we assume the PTR patchnotes on front page are not datamining errors, we'll be receiving 10% extra movement speed from our Stance. Very strange, considering all passive movement speed increases are 15% and the one from boots is 7% if I'm not mistaken. If it stacks with boots enchant, then it's great, but if it doesn't, it's essentially 3% passive movement speed increase, which is next to nothing when the spec has so much mobility on demand.

First of all, MoP changed movement speed buffs to no longer cap at 15%. Just look at Druid. Ferals baseline move with 15% movement speed, with the talent 30%, then boots are on top of that. Secondly the boot enchants are 8% movement speed. So in total we will be moving at 18% movement with the change.

[Alhoon]

First of all, MoP changed movement speed buffs to no longer cap at 15%. Just look at Druid. Ferals baseline move with 15% movement speed, with the talent 30%, then boots are on top of that. Secondly the boot enchants are 8% movement speed. So in total we will be moving at 18% movement with the change.

Thanks for corrections, wasn't aware they stacked these days. Well, 10% more movement speed is nothing to sneeze at.

[gahddo]

The way they phrased the change is poor.

"Ascension now also increases your maximum mana by 15%, and your energy regen by 15%."

Its almost certainly passive energy regen not *energy* regen, as that would include EB. Lets assume a nice, even, achievable number for energy regen and say 11 eps. In comparison with chi brew:
Ascension -
11 * 60 / 40 * 2 = 33 chi in a minute without ascension
33 chi/minute * 0.15 = 4.95 more chi/minute than without ascension
Chi brew -
4 / 1.5 = 2.67 chi/minute

If ascension goes live the way it is on the datamined notes, it will beat both chi brew and power strikes by a decent amount. The difference in chi means 1.14 BoK per minute increase from using ascension over chi brew, on top of the ease of rotation from having 5 chi cap.

- I highly doubt it will make it live, as they could EASILY fix this by simply making the energy regen 8%, which would result in the same chi/minute as chi brew. -