The Teachings of Xuen: A Windwalker PvE Guide

[Deleted]

Cannot cancel the proc.

Aaaaah, oke. Well that sucks. Then, yea I fully agree with you in every aspect. :P

[samadxi]

I really don't think you would want to stack mastery when you have the Rune of Re-Origination trinket. It seems like you're suggesting having something like 6776 haste, 10k mastery and 4k crit as an example.

You will be popping Tigereye Brew during Rune of Re-Origination procs whenever possible. Therefore, 1 point of Critical Strike Rating would increase your critical strike chance most of the time while also providing 2 points of mastery rating during Tigereye Brew procs.

If you consider Rune of Re-Origination has about a 1RPPM proc rate (plus or minus depending on ilvl version) with a 10 second duration then we can say that it will have an uptime of around 16.6%. So 1 unit of Critical Strike Rating would give you the following:

- 1 Critical Strike Rating 83.4% of the time
- 2 Mastery Rating for a percentage of all Tigereye Brew stacks consumed (maybe 50%?)

On the other hand, 1 point of mastery rating on your gear would only give you 1 mastery rating for every stack of TEB you gain. Having 2 mastery rating 50% of the time is on its own equal to having 1 mastery rating 100% of the time. The extra crit rating you benefit from the other 83.4% of the time is just a bonus.

The difficult thing to calculate here is to figure out in practice how many of our TEB stacks generated end up being spent during Rune of Re-Origination, and how many don't. If you're waiting on a Rune proc and you reach 20 stacks of Tigereye Brew, you'll probably pop 10 stacks to keep from wasting them. Stack generation is going to depend on the fight, 4pT15 procs, and our haste rating. I think on average we'll probably spend 40-60% of our total Tigereye Brew stacks gained during Rune of Re-Origination.

I think the only question is whether we keep our haste and crit even in favor of a higher mastery on Rune of Re-Origination proc, or whether we allow one to get much higher than the other if we feel one stat is better than another. For example, at a low gear level we might want more haste than crit while keeping mastery just above our haste. At a very high gear level we might want more crit than haste to minimize wasted energy, and keep mastery just above crit.

One thing to keep in mind about our estimated 6776 haste softcap is that it doesn't account for the energy loss from Rune of Re-Origination 16.6% of the time. When our haste rating is frequently dipping to 0 we will want a lot of it so we can recover from the gap in energy generation quickly. This is why I think we will always want to maintain close to a 1:1:1 ratio on our secondary stats even if it means going a bit over the 6776 haste softcap.

Another thing we can do if maintaining a 1:1:1 ratio means our haste rating is getting too high is we can simply switch to Power Strikes which maintains a similar chi generation while allowing for a higher haste rating. It boldly goes places Ascension cannot go.

You post alot of text with useless information.

In practice when star the fight and my 2 trinkets proc. I consume 14 TEB and use them with trinket proc 2x times.... With dps increase

[NeverStop]

Holy crap, RealPPM trinkets got insane buffs.

In a 10 minute training dummy test, I had a 34.6% uptime on the Renataki trinket (compared to 43.2% on H Bottle).



This puts the Renataki trinket proc at an average of ~2300 Agility (0.346 * 1333 * 5), which is ~800 Agility more than a 510 H Bottle proc.

I shudder to think how much better the buffed Rune of Reorigination is now.

[Moozhe]

Holy crap, RealPPM trinkets got insane buffs.

In a 10 minute training dummy test, I had a 34.6% uptime on the Renataki trinket (compared to 43.2% on H Bottle).

[snip]

This puts the Renataki trinket proc at an average of ~2300 Agility (0.346 * 1333 * 5), which is ~800 Agility more than a 510 H Bottle proc.

I shudder to think how much better the buffed Rune of Reorigination is now.

The Renataki's Soul Charm had an RPPM of 0.56 with a 20 second duration. So it was supposed to have an uptime of around 18.7% if my math is right. Assuming they buffed the trinket by 10% like they said then the uptime would have become about 20.6% if the change was multiplicative or around 22% if the change is additive (a detail they always seem to miss).

34.6% uptime seems pretty drastic. If they keep it that way then TEB stack generation per second will be a more important statistic in order to be able to keep feeding stacks to the procs to make them not a DPS loss. All the more reason to drop FoF/Chi Waves.

[Quotey]

Any tips on Heroic Horridon? I'm not sure how to compete with the multidotters and quick cleavers- SEF doesn't seem to pack that much of a punch. And what with all the movement from bloody sand traps/venom pools/etc, uptime feels a bit low. Am I just a bit pants? We only had like 3 pulls, so I'm sure I'll get into it, but any advice appreciated.

[Crevan]

In a 10 minute training dummy test, I had a 34.6% uptime on the Renataki trinket

That's not really a conclusive test, though. I had uptime this high on Iron Qon last week, before the hotfix (albeit as a brewmaster). And it'd be extremely low on some other fights. You'd need to spend a few hours on the dummy to get any sort of reliable data about the average uptime (which in theory should be about 20.5% * your haste).

[Deleted]

Tought i posted this but i think i forgot to press reply :P

I got Thunderforged Tia-tia the scything star wich is random drop from all bosses (we got it from jinrok too but i was sitout on first 3 bosses). Now i have Tia-tia in Mh and 504 Claw of shek´zeer on Oh. Should i replace Claw with some 522 weapon wich has higher weapon damage or does that 500 agi gem pull ahead?

[ruga]

I am working on a similiar conundrum as Phixio:
I picked up http://www.wowhead.com/item=96605 as Thunderforged weapon (ilvl 541).

As far as I know, Weaponspeed isn't as much of a factor for us WWs - But just to ease my mind, I'd like to ask anyway: All well with having Zeeg's in MH, heroic Shek'zeer Claw (2x upgraded) in OH or should I swap them around? the 2.4 speed one is stronger in every aspect.

[Ryanlol]

The Renataki's Soul Charm had an RPPM of 0.56 with a 20 second duration. So it was supposed to have an uptime of around 18.7% if my math is right. Assuming they buffed the trinket by 10% like they said then the uptime would have become about 20.6% if the change was multiplicative or around 22% if the change is additive (a detail they always seem to miss).

34.6% uptime seems pretty drastic. If they keep it that way then TEB stack generation per second will be a more important statistic in order to be able to keep feeding stacks to the procs to make them not a DPS loss. All the more reason to drop FoF/Chi Waves.

RPPM scales with Haste. .56 turns into ~.616 from buff, .616 turns into ~.7392 with 20% haste. Although, still nowhere near 35% uptime. But something like 25% is reasonable and expected.

[Buju]

Any tips on Heroic Horridon? I'm not sure how to compete with the multidotters and quick cleavers- SEF doesn't seem to pack that much of a punch. And what with all the movement from bloody sand traps/venom pools/etc, uptime feels a bit low. Am I just a bit pants? We only had like 3 pulls, so I'm sure I'll get into it, but any advice appreciated.

I had like 20pulls on it last night... My dps was lacking to say the least on that fight... I was able to stay at about 160K on my best pulls... But rogues in the raid were closer to the 200mark (at 4th gate on most pulls)

Also... RoR in practice is really lack luster for me... I have the 528 one too. I have been starting the heroic fights with it on, with about 5k haste and 8k Mastery buffed. The numbers I have been seeing with it have been nothing to write home about. I have been trying saving TEB procs and also using them on CD.

Anyone else feeling the RoR isnt all it's cracked up to be in practice, or am I just on dope?

[Deleted]

The power of RoR depends partially on getting faster TEB stacks through the 4T15 bonus, and also on having lots of secondary stats on your gear = high ilvl and many sockets. So as you gear up more the coming weeks, it should get better.

---------- Post added 2013-03-14 at 04:42 PM ----------

Tought i posted this but i think i forgot to press reply :P

I got Thunderforged Tia-tia the scything star wich is random drop from all bosses (we got it from jinrok too but i was sitout on first 3 bosses). Now i have Tia-tia in Mh and 504 Claw of shek´zeer on Oh. Should i replace Claw with some 522 weapon wich has higher weapon damage or does that 500 agi gem pull ahead?

Especially for the main hand, weapon damage is king. 500 agi equals about 150 weapon dps, so if the weapon dps increase is over 150, then use the higher weapon dps one. For the offhand it's different, since offhand weapon dps is only worth about half of main hand weapon dps. So it might be viable to keep using the weapon with the 500 agi gems a bit longer in your offhand. Like how using normal claws of shekzeer with gem in offhand was preferable over using a heroic garakal.

---------- Post added 2013-03-14 at 04:44 PM ----------

I am working on a similiar conundrum as Phixio:
I picked up http://www.wowhead.com/item=96605 as Thunderforged weapon (ilvl 541).

As far as I know, Weaponspeed isn't as much of a factor for us WWs - But just to ease my mind, I'd like to ask anyway: All well with having Zeeg's in MH, heroic Shek'zeer Claw (2x upgraded) in OH or should I swap them around? the 2.4 speed one is stronger in every aspect.

Always go for the highest weapon dps weapon in the mainhand. Each point of weapon dps for the main hand is worth roughly 3x as much as 1 agility. For the offhand it's about half that value (1.5 wdps for 1 agi).

[ruga]

Thank you Mihir, so I was right in my assumption.

Also, has anyone come across an up to date trinket list (including the recent hotfixes)?

[Deleted]

I just did a list for my personal use working off the numbers on Wowhead. I'm not quite sure how up-to-date those are so I'm a little reluctant to publish it just yet.
I'll try to verify the numbers tomorrow and publish it if I'm satisfied with it.

So far I have Xuen, Terror, Renetaki's, Bottle, RoR, Bad Juju, Talisman of Bloodlust, and the Shado-Pan Trinket, all for iLvl 502, 522 and 535 (where applicable). Any other interesting ones I forgot?

[Deleted]

I really wish some of these lucky few would upload some logs of tank and spank fights like LFR Feng or Gara'jal. I'm looking at you, Runnmonk and Gondlem.

Later that night I queued for Mogushan LFR. It was not my best fight. Very bad and surprising pull by the LFR Tank, no Weakened Armor Debuff on the Boss, and I dropped Tiger Power once or twice Tired after some hours of hardmode progressing

I'm not allowed to post links here. So you have to copy&paste them. Sorry for that

Log: worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cysea2us6gy4w3x6/sum/damageDone/?s=151&e=361
Armory: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/mannoroth/kabator/advanced

I will add some more logs later

[Gondlem]

I've played around with Rune quite a bit since I picked it up, mostly found that stacking mastery is a bad idea. More or less for the reasons Moozhe pointed out, but essentially your mastery only benefits you when you're actually going to press TEB. A significant portion of your used TEB stacks will be during the Rune proc, and crit and haste convert to mastery for those, and obviously if you're not using many TEB stacks outside of the proc the mastery on your gear doesn't do anything for you. I've tried a variety of approaches with it but generally speaking I think the approach is either comfortable haste level -> as much crit as you can get while keeping your mastery 1 point higher, or switch to power strikes and keep all three stats about equal with mastery marginally higher.

[Deleted]

I just did a list for my personal use working off the numbers on Wowhead. I'm not quite sure how up-to-date those are so I'm a little reluctant to publish it just yet.
I'll try to verify the numbers tomorrow and publish it if I'm satisfied with it.

So far I have Xuen, Terror, Renetaki's, Bottle, RoR, Bad Juju, Talisman of Bloodlust, and the Shado-Pan Trinket, all for iLvl 502, 522 and 535 (where applicable). Any other interesting ones I forgot?

So, if I understand the patch notes correctly they smoothed out the proc chances for the trinkets but not the PPM values. That shouldn't have any effect on the average uptime of the trinkets, should it? Even the increase in proc rate should have an insignificant effect on the uptime (on average) if they've kept the PPM the same.

Am I missing something?

---------- Post added 2013-03-15 at 11:47 AM ----------

First provisional Ranking for the trinkets.



Stat weights provided by Mihir (as usual) and I even took Mihir's Haste, Crit and Mastery values from his armory for the calculation of the RoRO since they reflect the patch changes better than mine.

For reference: with my own values (iLvl 487, Haste > Crit > Mastery) RoRO scores about 1.5k points less.

Edit: These numbers don't account for hitting caps when equipping those trinkets which is especially noteworthy with the Shado-Pan trinket.

Edit2: Not included in the calculation is the damage of the Voodoo Gnomes. I wasn't sure how to account for that.

[Deleted]

The gnomes dont do a noticeable amount of damage, about 1k per proc.

Any chance you could add a 2/2 upgraded Bottle of Infinite Stars as well? (510ilvl)

And, Renataki's has a ton of expertise which makes hitting the caps an issue as well (i got a renatakis in my bag but equipping it would put me at 11% expertise).

[Deleted]

The gnomes dont do a noticeable amount of damage, about 1k per proc.

It should still somehow factor into the score, to properly reflect the value of the trinket.

Any chance you could add a 2/2 upgraded Bottle of Infinite Stars as well?

The iLvl 510 Bottle comes to a score of 9904.

And, Renataki's has a ton of expertise which makes hitting the caps an issue as well (i got a renatakis in my bag but equipping it would put me at 11% expertise).

True, I didn't think of the cap for WW. I usually play BM so 11% expertise is not an issue for me.

[Deleted]

Woah is the Talisman really that far ahead? and I assume that list includes the rppm trinket fix/change.

[Deleted]

As I said, it's only that far ahead if you need all that hit and you probably won't, especially with increasing iLvls.

As for the RPPM changes: They did not change the PPM, so on average (which is all I can account for in a spreadsheet) they are still the same. They just changed the reliability of the proc. Before your fight could go ------XXX and you felt like your trinket was worthless, now you fight will look something like --X--X--X. So the average proc rate is the same but it will feel much smoother. Usually probability can be a b***h, now it can't anymore.

I decided to publish the spreadsheet on Google Docs. You can download it and enter your own stat weights, stats and trinkets. The rows for new trinkets are prepared with the fomula (except for different versions of RoRO, that's a different beast). The list on the second sheet is static meaning it won't reflect your changes. I just copied the current list and sorted it by score.

Have fun.

And just to be safe: I don't claim to be 100% correct with the values. If you find errors I'd be grateful if you'll let me know.

PS: You can also adjust values for existing trinket to reflect reforges.