Why do HC raiding guilds say 'no' to females?

[Larini]

I've never seen or heard anything like this. In fact I've been in a few HC raiding guilds that didn't give a crap what gender you are as long as you are pro and reliable. I have however also raided with a lot of other female's over the years that are just plain bad or attention whores. So I can see where they're coming from. My personal rule is to not talk in vent till after the first raid with new people, that way the can judge me as a player before they find out I ovulate. It tends to solve that issue quite well.

[jbombard]

If I was one of the people involved in this guild breakup,

http://www.epuguild.net/node/7517

I might think twice about it, however the women the guild I am in now are awesome. Still I can understand how bad experience could lead to this.

[Chonar]

That particular guild must've had some bad experiences with females, leading them to put that on their list. It's a shame.

Adding to the growing pile of comments: Heroic content-clearing guild here with 4 steady raiders being female. Only one of them is a healer too!

[Meer]

I have admit.. I wont say we are "hardcore".. but our guild has has up to 8 female raiders on our active 25 man raiding team at a time (With our RL/Co-GM being female). We all raide the same as the guys and haven't had any drama that started with the, since I've been here. It really just depends on the luck of the draw tbh.

We are there to raid and have fun just like everyone else.. and nothing else. In fact.. My guild wasnt even aware I was female until I finally spoke in vent and admitted it.

[Todgruppe]

If I was one of the people involved in this guild breakup,

http://www.epuguild.net/node/7517

I might think twice about it, however the women the guild I am in now are awesome. Still I can understand how bad experience could lead to this.

A52, lawl. I'm impressed Icyy has made it what like 5 months now in one guild, him and Nez, guild hoping all day er day.

[Deleted]

I think the comment about "couples" rather than girls / women is very valid. But I have also seen / been affected by the attention seekers (male and female), I guess the differences is that lads are more common than lasses, and lads act differently around lasses. Some of the drama that I've had to sort out (people cheating on their spouses, in one case actually moving countries to be with another women.) - I've also had some amazingly retarded issues with gay men (bitchy ones), causing huge mounts of trouble.

Ultimately though, ANYONE can be a pain in the ass, you have to have a good interview process with them, do some practice raids, spend a bit of time with them, and find the right people that gel with you. (and your group)

I seen no problem with saying "no girls", just in the same way that I see no problem with "only Danish guild", or "UK Only guild", there are also examples of girl only guilds (though they are rare), and there are several gay guilds around now, which is pretty cool too. I think the list given at the start of the thread was written by someone who wasn't very tactful. There are better ways of listing your recruitment criteria.

UK law has some pretty strong enforcements regarding discrimination, these are not yet extended to virtual organisation - but knowing my fucking government, they will probably stick their stinky bits into it at some point. A case in point is the organisation called the BNP (British National Party), which is notorious because its anti non-white. (Anti Non British to an extent as well). The High court told the BNP that they could no longer exclude Black Members, so if a Black man or women wants to join the party - they cannot turn them down (as they previously did).

Blizzard probably quite wisely have removed themselves from making judgements like this because guilds in their view are private and cannot be policed by them. So guild law is the law. I'm not sure if this is good for the game or not - ultimately if you don't like the look of a guild then you don't have to apply.

Free will etc.

[Deleted]

Why do HC raiding guilds say 'no' to females?

Because they don't ?

Do not bother applying if you are any of the following:
1. Immature It's ok.
2. Under the age of 21 (anything under will require an extensive verbal interview) their guild, their rules but i played with a lot of good people tounger than that
3. Female lol
4. Have a *%%!ty mic Mandatory
5. Have no cell phone (or own one and don't respond) It can help if the player is realy late and didn't tell anything
6. Care more about loot than progression It's ok.
7. Looking to raid more than 12 hrs a week It's ok.
8. Left your last guild because of loot It's ok.
9. Looking to get carried It's ok.
10. Don't know the in's and outs of your class It's ok.
11. not 1/8 DS HM Minimum Hardcore guild ? Lol ?
12. Not have an authenticator Hum, you can debate here but with that you reduce chance to get hacked, less drama.

90% of the males in WoW are horrible raiders, too. Obviously there are more good male players because more males play to begin with, but there are plenty of females in top 10 world guilds, nevermind 'hardcore guilds' which carries a lot of different meanings.

qft

[Pua]

At least I experienced people making sexist comments all the time when girls are present like that made them look cool or something.

You know, this comment made me think that the guild in the OP is actually doing girls a favour by saying "don't come here". Though I doubt it was considered so conscientiously, that one comment has probably saved you from reams and reams of ignorant, child-like sexist green text. Complaining that women are attention-seekers or drama-queens usually ignores the fact that a girl has chosen to complain about every other guild chat comment being some kind of smutty or perverted jibe.

A personal friend of mine screen-shotted the conversation that prompted a recent /gquit. It was a discussion about how best to deal with recruitment to keep the raid group progressing, and her comment was that you should recruit good people and not good classes.

“stfu or ill cum over ur tits”.

Obviously, this is an extreme example but it’s tragically not isolated. It’s also typically passed off as “just a joke” when someone rightly points out that it’s simply not on.

Some of the best players I’ve had the pleasure of playing with were girls. Not only that, the greatest officer I ever worked with was also female. The biggest drama-causers in a guild, in my admittedly anecdotal evidence, are teenage boys with too much testosterone or who’ve had too much sugar that day.

TL, DR?

Moar girls, IMO.

[anisadora]

Sorry, I am not trying to start a 'shitstorm' as you put it. I am just looking for an answer. And it hasn't been 'just' that guild that has said it. I have found probably 10 or so saying the exact same thing over the last 2 weeks. I am genuinely interested in the 'why'?

come join my guild. we progression raid, and there's times our raid is 40% female, haha. around half our healers, the maintank and a few dps.

[Deleted]

Those rules look like absolute crap to be honest, it's a game not a job...

[Deleted]

I think it's better to have a full guild of males instead of a mixed one..Girls tend to manipulate men in this game ("pppplllsss give me that looot plllssss :333333 " ) in my opinion as i noticed in the 4 mixed guild i played and when someone says "no we can't give you X because of Y" they just started crying like "girls" and it was a drama every raid... When i was at school i had a full class of males were everyone could burp or fart or say bad words and everybody was happy xD you can't really say bad things or sexual things in vent with a woman hearing, it's weird.

[Allefrans]

The answer here is simple

Women = Drama

I've seen it plenty of times where a menopausal woman will destroy a guild from the inside with bitching, passive aggressiveness and holding the raid group to ransom. Also there's the jealousy factor, girls can get protective of "Their boys" and be incredibly hostile towards other female raid members.

Not saying all women are like this btw, but i have seen both situations multiple times

Sounds like something taken from Planet Earth.

[Raelbo]

I have been browsing the WoW forums as of late, to try and find a guild for MoP. I have stumbled into a LOT of guilds flat out saying they won't recruit any females. Here is a quote from one guild in particular....

Now everything except for the 'no females' on that list I can understand. Can someone please enlighten me on this subject?

Quite simply put: The males in that guild are emotionally incapable of interacting in a mature fashion when you introduce a female into the group. This is not uncommon among groups of young immature males.

If it's any consolation the problem is not the female, but the males. I would look at it as their loss.

I do think it is ironic though that the first criterion they mention is maturity. If they had bothered to enforce point #1 they wouldn't need point #3. Go figure.

[Todgruppe]

You know, this comment made me think that the guild in the OP is actually doing girls a favour by saying "don't come here". Though I doubt it was considered so conscientiously, that one comment has probably saved you from reams and reams of ignorant, child-like sexist green text. Complaining that women are attention-seekers or drama-queens usually ignores the fact that a girl has chosen to complain about every other guild chat comment being some kind of smutty or perverted jibe.

A personal friend of mine screen-shotted the conversation that prompted a recent /gquit. It was a discussion about how best to deal with recruitment to keep the raid group progressing, and her comment was that you should recruit good people and not good classes.

“stfu or ill cum over ur tits”.

Obviously, this is an extreme example but it’s tragically not isolated. It’s also typically passed off as “just a joke” when someone rightly points out that it’s simply not on.

Some of the best players I’ve had the pleasure of playing with were girls. Not only that, the greatest officer I ever worked with was also female. The biggest drama-causers in a guild, in my admittedly anecdotal evidence, are teenage boys with too much testosterone or who’ve had too much sugar that day.

TL, DR?

Moar girls, IMO.

And my anecdotal evidence says women destroy? Neither proves anything, 6 of 7 guilds implosion I've been part of where caused by women directly (running off half the raiders), or indirectly (manipulating an officer). You use that comment as a retort, but that appears to me to be more of "I'm a women, treatz mez specal!!!". Overtly hostile male would get an overtly hostile response, women (a lot) throw tantrum when we treat them like "one of the guys". Now, I know plenty that can dish with the best, clearly not all, but it is the pussy on the pedestal syndrome.

[Jurwi]

You know, 90% of female players in wow are just horrible raiders...There's your answer.

Please keep it clean and avoid generalizing genders

Probably the same number for males too. 90% of players in WoW despite their gender probably don't even raid, so...

Besides, I don't think it has anything to do with skills. It's the other stuff. Quite a lot of females are simply what you'd call attention whores. Females also tend to cause drama in guilds, even if they dont try it. 24 males and 1 females in a raid group is just a time bomb with several of the males flirting, or at least wishing they were flirting with that female.

[espoire]

Echoing what many have said: our 8/8 H guild doesn't discriminate. In fact, our star healer is a woman.

In my personal experience, I seem to notice more "bad" female players, but I highly doubt it's actually any more common; I'm probably just taking notice because girls are rare in the first place.

[Lentus]

They raid without healers?

lol hahaha

[Goatfish]

Good for you.
I have been playing since the very start of WoW in Europe and I haven't met a single good female player. Not one. Not all of them were bad, most were decent but none of them was good.
Most of the female players I have met were, for a lack of a better word, 'attention whores' (forgive me for that expression) and they were causing all sorts of trouble.
Maybe certain guilds have had the same or similar experiences?

I could say the same, except that I trained one of the many girls who joined my guild to be great. The rest were mediocre or terrible. So it's not impossible to teach tricks to a cat, but most of them refuse to listen, and it's not worth having cheerleaders in a progression raiding guild.

I don't really mean the disrespect, but it's sort of how I have never met a Brazilian gamer who has been good at gaming, I have never met a woman who without specific training and instruction, was good at a game. It makes it really hard to take either of them seriously, especially in a high end gaming environment. Honestly it shouldn't be a factor though, things like reputations, personality, logs, and knowledge should take precedence over gender.

[sirnoobalots]

I don't think it's about the "lol girls cant play" bs and more about removing the distraction. Its like male/female only schools they remove the opposite sex just to remove any possibility of distraction/drama associated with them. After all most hardcore guilds are there to raid and not to socialize.

Just my $0.02

[Super Kami Dende]

It is the Drama.

I've seen Whores tear entire guilds apart just by turning guys against one another.

Sooo much fucking drama.

Though my HC guild did have some Females in it, they just were flirtatious hoebags. So it worked out.