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  1. #661
    I don't think most do. Actually the first time I've seen such a rule. Had to ask a friend before replying because he is in a very HC guild and he told me he doesn't even ask for your sex in the app because the GM doesn't see the point. You get judged in your trail for ability.

    That being said, I can understand the rule albeit I don't agree with it. I've seen some serious drama in guilds get caused by women, the worst being a girl sleeping with the gm to get extra ep for loot (or whatever system they used) so being a male dominated game some women make take advantage as some do for everything if they can but in my experience in my guild, while not HC but were a serious raiding guild we had a female GM who was an above average player but the best GM I've ever seen in her ability to keep the guild together and the healing leader was female and simply the best healer I've ever seen.

    Ofcourse there were also bad female players but there were bad male players as well. The difference is when it comes to ability the male player is bad because he's a bad player whereas the female is bad because she's a female. Sad but true fact in the gaming world.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Fezzina View Post
    I've been in a few guilds in my time and I'm writing from personal experience. While certainly we all have different experiences within our respective guilds the same kind of scenarios play out across all. I have met men who hate the opposite gender simply because they have failed relationships or because they can't obtain relationships.

    I've seen guys in some guilds giving a girl a hard time on vent by telling her to 'go make them sandwiches' or to 'get back in the kitchen'. Sometimes as a joke, sometimes with darker intent. These are the 'pigs' I'm referring to and my reasons I stated before are reflected off of my time in these guilds.

    I've also been in not one, not two but three seperate guilds that have all fallen apart because of a woman dating the GM or a high ranking officer. It always starts the same way and it always ends the same way.

    So no, I don't hate my gender and I certainly know there are good men out there who include and exclude women for legitimate reasons. And I applaud them.

    The sad truth is, the vast majority of men in WoW are not good men with good intentions. No scratch that, the vast majority of men in gaming are not good men with good intentions.
    Who the hell are you to make that generalization?

    You sound pathetically bitter.

  3. #663
    Pandaren Monk Forgottenone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikluz View Post
    I'll bite here. This is actually my guild. I find it to be no different than having an age requirement. If you don't want to apply you do not have to.

    The argument isn't that woman are the cause of all of the drama... because it takes two to tango. They are a catalyst for drama. If there isn't a woman there to be white-knighted by general neckbeard, then the problem doesn't exist.
    This is how I feel for the most part. This game is largely male dominant and while it takes two to tango as he said there seems to be significantly less females than there are males so just remove what could potentially be a problem for your guys which in this case is a female. From personal experience I love playing with girls and I have a quite a few who are good friends who I play with everyday, however since starting in 2006 any guild that has had a girl has caused drama because some fool tries to be her hero and sticks up for her regardless of how wrong she is.

    My current guild is the first guild I have had where we don't have a female raider, and the ONLY problems we have had is performance issues or attendance due to RL. Nothing else has caused problems and this is what I love. With that said I am also trying to casually raid on off days so I can raid with some female friends and help them out.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by Fezzina View Post
    I've been in a few guilds in my time and I'm writing from personal experience. While certainly we all have different experiences within our respective guilds the same kind of scenarios play out across all. I have met men who hate the opposite gender simply because they have failed relationships or because they can't obtain relationships.

    I've seen guys in some guilds giving a girl a hard time on vent by telling her to 'go make them sandwiches' or to 'get back in the kitchen'. Sometimes as a joke, sometimes with darker intent. These are the 'pigs' I'm referring to and my reasons I stated before are reflected off of my time in these guilds.

    I've also been in not one, not two but three seperate guilds that have all fallen apart because of a woman dating the GM or a high ranking officer. It always starts the same way and it always ends the same way.

    So no, I don't hate my gender and I certainly know there are good men out there who include and exclude women for legitimate reasons. And I applaud them.

    The sad truth is, the vast majority of men in WoW are not good men with good intentions. No scratch that, the vast majority of men in gaming are not good men with good intentions.
    When you say it like that, you're a lot more agreeable

    You should do this from now on, instead of throwing around insults with such wanton disregard
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
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  5. #665
    While I think it's goofy that people take raiding so serious, I've heard someone compare it to being in a military unit. You're straight, you love girls, but you don't want them distracting you and your comrades when it's time to get down to business. The last thing a squad needs is a girl flirting with everyone in it, and them getting themselves killed trying to protect her, or forming rivalries because of her. It's a silly analogy, but I can see the principle. And the fact of the matter is, if getting rid of drama is the goal, the most effective method is to take girls out of the equation. They don't always initiate it, but they're usually the catalyst.

  6. #666
    I'm in a HC raiding guild (not really hardcore, but HC nonetheless), but we allow women just as well as men...
    And they perform just as good as well. I see no problem in accept women. Just a lame stereotype.
    And for the record, I'm a guy.

  7. #667
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fezzina View Post
    I'm not a woman.

    I'm stating pure facts about the pig men of my gender who hate women because they can't get women.
    My guild master and one of the other 4 officers were women, as well as one of our normal raiders. Before wrath we had many more than that. My guild master instituted our "no women" recruitment rule in Wrath because she was sick and tired of the fragile egos, loot entitlement, overall ease and tendency to get butthurt over nothing, and tendency to cyber a bunch of guys in the guild. In the end, it was just safer and more efficient to only recruit guys throughout wrath. The one woman we did make an exception for ended up being a loot ho and cheated on her BF who we also recruited, which caused a lot of drama. Other than that, our raid was more drama free than it had been in years.

    Also, the men in our guild were very mature. Never heard the "Go to the kitchen and make me a sammich!" line spoken in raid, or anything else sexist. About 95% of the time that cyber happened, it was guys that were approached by women, and we had several older men in our guild who would openly tell the officers that they were being flirted up by these women and weren't really interested in hooking up over the interwebs.

    Even my GF thinks that most women in WoW are trouble. Not all, but most. Now don't get me wrong, this does not mean they are not good people. They just have a reliable tendency to almost always cause some sort of trouble.
    Last edited by Cthulhu 2020; 2012-08-18 at 03:51 PM.

  8. #668
    In my experience, obnoxiously flirty people of either gender are very awkward and need to keep that down to a minimum when we're raiding and leave it for their private mumble channel after the raid.

    Although I will say that I do raise my eyebrow when a new girl joins the guild and the other girls in it are like "OMG, another girl, let's be friends and sing Spice Girls songs in mumble during Ultraxion trash and ask the GM to make us our own private girl channel!"

    I guess it's because they're so few in a raiding guild composed of mostly men that they feel the need to 'band together'?
    /dance

  9. #669
    Interesting amount of publicity this is getting.

    Hi, I am the GM of the guild Nebula and yes this is our rule.
    And just to clarify some of the posts I was browsing:

    - All of are members are former graduates or are former military.
    - Our youngest member is 24 yrs old
    - Most of us are Engaged or already married
    - We all have careers

    We are not a hardcore guild. We are hardcore-casual. That means we put in 3 raid nights a week consisting of 4 hrs of extremely efficient time put in. We pride ourselves in a no favortism policy. Our guild has been established for 3 years and many of our members were former hardcore players in guilds like Impervious, Duality, DV etc.

    Many of you are right that there are good female raiders out there and that they are the minority. That is pretty much the consensus of the thread. I've been raid leading, managing, and playing the game since vanilla to understand the pros and cons of female wow gamers.

    I too have a career, and a life so I'm not willing to devote the majority of my time recruiting. I recruit for stability, efficiency and environment. It is no mystery that the best GMs are the ones that are able to devote all their time into the management/recruiting aspect of this game. I do not have this luxury. If I was able to spend that much time on it, then it is possible that Nebula could be open to female recruiting.

    Our environment is extremely efficient. No bull shit chatter, no talking about what happened on the previous dexter/breaking bad). We're here to kill bosses and progress. We all have the same mindset going into progression raids.

    The arguments of i know lots of 8/8HM females. Lets be real, when we killed shit it was pre nerf and 5% nerf. 30% nerf recruits are not the ones we're looking for. 8/8HM doesnt hold any real merit in my books anymore.

    TLDR Version: There are such a few minority of females that would fit in our guild's environment, that I'm not willing to take the risk of drama. Its a simple pros vs cons. Not a blatant statement of ALL females are bad/drama queens. That would be a ludicrous statement.

    I've been playing with female gamers for 5 years in wow. It wasn't until this past expac that we instituted this no female rule. And that was just to save time on the management end.

    Our environment is competitive, militaristic, with NO favoritism. Ask any of my members, and that is what they will tell you. I DO NOT PLAY favorites. It has been in history where many females expected special treatment. I found myself having to spend more time other than raiding/strategizing getting so I could get females to mesh with our environment. That is time I simply do not have for anymore.

    If you want to be a part of a hardcore-casual guild please feel free to toss in an app at nebula.enjin.com.


    PS: The people that are in this guild have a mutual respect for one another. We all understand IRL issues, thats why communications is paramount (ie. cell phone rule). We're not interested in people wanting to waste other people's time.

    Authenticator rule: Pretty simple. we're a progression oriented guild. You getting ur account hacked during progression is obviously not convenient in a tight knit 10 man guild. Its pretty much a no bull shit excuse guild. Not having an authenticator is pure laziness. $5 or free if you have a smartphone to secure your ability to log on and show up night in and night out.

    Think I covered it for the most part.

    3 days a week, 4 hrs a night. Put in 110% effort in those times. Drama free, competitive, with ZERO favoritism. If this is something you're interested in. Please feel free to drop an app at nebule.enjin.com. Thanks
    Last edited by Ratanna; 2012-08-18 at 04:43 PM.

  10. #670
    drama
    abusing gender (hehehehe ^_^ Loot? KThnx <3xoxoxoxox)
    attention seeking
    white knights get defensive

    yes there ARE women out there that actually do play at the same; and better level than most if not 99% of the people on this messageboard, theyre just in the vast minority.

  11. #671
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    Girls are generally not good at video games, thats how it has always been and will continue to be forever, their genetic potential makes them unable to perform reactive tasks and they fail to relize that having 170 pets collected does not make them good for raiding.
    It's harsh, I know but the truth always is. It's been like this in various things for thousands of years, stay in your roles or cause imbalance.
    As for raiding, look at Nihilum etc they were always against having girls and they where dominating the raiding scene, then things switched up and they got some girls, just like that they lost the top possition.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-18 at 06:39 AM ----------



    Don't expect anything as long as you're not pregnant. I don't want to raid and hang out with woman, I want to talk about how "overweight (to keep it sivil for the forums) a girl was, or how bad/good she was in bed, and we like being sexist, can you as a woman handle listening or reading that constantly? I doubt it, hence why I only want to chat with girls I hit on in pubs.
    In my last guild we had 2 girls and both where whining because of all the nasty stuff we said, they did know about it because we put it up in the requirements for applying thread, they was explained to and they agree'd to it, so once the whine started they were out.
    I would prefer raiding with normal people before rednecks any day.

  12. #672
    most of the applicants we get these days left their guild for these reasons:

    1. Sick of favoritism in their old guild.
    2. Wanted to be competitive.
    3. Love the game but can't commit 5-6 nights a week.
    4. Wanted to be part of a unit who gets content done efficiently before the shits nerfed to hell.

  13. #673
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratanna View Post
    3 days a week, 4 hrs a night. Put in 110% effort in those times. Drama free, competitive, with ZERO favoritism.
    And aparantly inability to do basic maths. (sry, pet peeve of mine)

    But as for recruitment, its the first time I've ever seen a no-female rule (quite the contrary!), but hey, its your guild do what you want. If people dont like it they dont have to apply.
    Last edited by mmoc4e3ce29075; 2012-08-18 at 04:51 PM.

  14. #674
    Our guild will say no to someone under 17 way before we say no to a female. And as far as I know Blood legion, paragon, vodka, method, and most other top guilds have females on their roster as well, so I'm not really sure where you're getting this information from.

  15. #675
    I'll tell you one thing.In most hc guilds i've been there were females.
    And in my current guild which was 8/8 hc right after the 5% nerf the GM is a woman and we do have about 7 raiding females.
    Everything goes more than fine and we do have a lot of fun in VT and guild/raid chat without any problems.
    Maybe there are females that causes troubles in some guilds but there is also males that causes trouble also.
    Its all about maturity on both sides.

  16. #676
    few guilds doesn't equal all guilds.
    Be feared, or be fuel

  17. #677
    A lot of top end guilds recruit females. A lot.

    However, to those who have a no-female policy it is usually in place because the officers realize the sex of the majority cannot usually handle the interactions of the sex of the minority. Also, relationships form which have a tendency to end which can be pretty detrimental. There are serious, non-idiotic reasons to have a male only or female only guild. If you have an issue with that, it can't be helped. People have the right to do as they please: are the girl scouts ridiculed for not allowing boys to join?

    If you're a girl looking for a top end raiding guild the only thing that's going to get you denied is your performance independent of your sex. Everything on a "we will not accept you if" list is inconsequential if you can raid when they need you and do your job very, very well.
    Last edited by Pariah; 2012-08-18 at 05:08 PM.

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  18. #678
    The Patient Mokenuf's Avatar
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    My first guild master, the one who taught me how to raid was a female !

    Thank You Corith from Blacklisted - Kirin'Tor (US) !
    Last edited by Mokenuf; 2012-08-18 at 05:10 PM.
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  19. #679
    The main reason would be the level of maturity of the guild your talking about, if its just a bunch of immature nerds then that's probably why they limit there recruiting base. They could have also had some bad luck with prior girls they recruited and just want to not repeat the past.
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  20. #680
    they are crippling themselfs if they just cut off the chicks, some are amazing players...

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