Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

[Toccs]

as to game play, i only got to play it for a few minutes and i already got annihilated by a guard =(

I am the law!

[Tokas]

You're definitely missing out. Baldur's Gate is one of the few RPG's that's managed to hold my attention for longer than a week. Absolutely love the older ones

your info:
Location: Orgrim's Hammer!
Orgrim is hammer?

[bals]

your info:
Location: Orgrim's Hammer!
Orgrim is hammer?

http://www.wowpedia.org/Orgrim%27s_Hammer

[Tackhisis]

Surely you'd know what THAC0 is if you've played the original?

But you had no chance to know it without having a game manual. Such design is simply inappropriate in present times.

[Simulacrum]

But you had no chance to know it without having a game manual. Such design is simply inappropriate in present times.

Even something as simple as putting on better armor and having your AC drop instead of raise should give you all the information you'd need to understand how it woks in context of the rest of the information you have available from just playing the game and looking at other items. You also see it just fine if you enable the to-hit rolls in the combat log. I can't imagine it being any simpler than that without it turning into something like a satire of how "gamers are idiots these days".

[TequilaFlavor]

The biggest problem is that Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn and Planescape Torment were life-changing experiences. There was so much love and compassion put into those games that I find it extremely difficult to believe that they are capable of producing something like that these days. Would I be excited if they announced it? Probably. To be honest, the closest to BGIII that I've played has been Dragon Age: Origins. I can't see it getting much better than that.

I hope that "Project Eternity" (working title) will manage to really bring back that oldschool vibe - the people from Obsidian working on it seem very passionate about it and some of them have a lot of experience in that specific field of RPGs under their belts (Icewind Dale I + II, Planescape: Torment, NWN 2: Mask of the Betrayer . . . ), but we'll have to wait and see.

[Cakka]

Even something as simple as putting on better armor and having your AC drop instead of raise should give you all the information you'd need to understand how it woks in context of the rest of the information you have available from just playing the game and looking at other items. You also see it just fine if you enable the to-hit rolls in the combat log. I can't imagine it being any simpler than that without it turning into something like a satire of how "gamers are idiots these days".

Well tbh THAC0 was incredibly stupid mechanic and even WotC got rid of it around the time BG was released(but too late for that change to affect the BG games). Either way basically you want your armor rating to be as low as possible(it can even be negative) and your own THAC0 should be as high as possible. Don't let the rather shit edition 2.5 D&D rules ruin your fun though!

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 01:43 AM ----------

But you had no chance to know it without having a game manual. Such design is simply inappropriate in present times.

Good thing we ain't talking about a modern game then isn't it!

[PizzaSHARK]

But you had no chance to know it without having a game manual. Such design is simply inappropriate in present times.

I was about 13-14 when I played Baldur's Gate. I had no difficulty figuring out that THAC0 translated into "chance to hit," and negative AC being good didn't confuse me much.

I had zero knowledge of anything related to AD&D at the time.

[WarpedAcorn]

THAC0 was needlessly complex. The D20 system streamlined gameplay without "dumbing it down", and was a great step. And yes, this comes from someone who played the original D&D as well as 2nd Edition, so I grew up on THAC0.

[Deleted]

Waiting for Android Release...

[Deleted]

The biggest problem is that Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn and Planescape Torment were life-changing experiences. There was so much love and compassion put into those games that I find it extremely difficult to believe that they are capable of producing something like that these days. Would I be excited if they announced it? Probably. To be honest, the closest to BGIII that I've played has been Dragon Age: Origins. I can't see it getting much better than that.

This, so much this. A true Baldur's Gate 3 on par with its predecessor is without a doubt my wildest videogame dream.
But I realize also that its almost impossible to make a game like BG2 anymore, I fear.
It was so different from the games we have today, it was so magistrally crafted in every detail, I had soo much emotional investment into it... today most games focus on completely different things.

[Fencers]

THAC0 was needlessly complex.

It isn't actually. It's as simple as upward scaling systems. There wasn't a lot of difference until ancillary rules began affecting THAC0. But the same is true of any +armor vis-a-vis -armor systems.

[Valeron]

To Hit Armor Class 0

seems pretty self explanatory to me

[flarecde]

THAC0 and AC weren't complex, merely not intuitive. It makes more sense to most players that a higher number is better. 3.0 simply changed it so that is how it was.

I still remember the BG and BG2 manuals being huge.

Are they still keeping it exclusive to their platform on PC though, or can it be bought standalone or through one of the more popular platforms?

[WarpedAcorn]

It isn't actually. It's as simple as upward scaling systems. There wasn't a lot of difference until ancillary rules began affecting THAC0. But the same is true of any +armor vis-a-vis -armor systems.

No, I still stand by my statement that it is needlessly complex. Instead of having a single variable being modified (D20), you have 2 variables that are modified in disimilar fashions.

For Example: Bob has a THAC0 of 10, and Jimmy has an AC of -5 while Bimmy has an AC of 7. To determine what needs to be rolled you have to first add a negative to both AC's then add them to the THAC0 number. So to hit Jimmy, Bob needs to roll a 15 or higher. To hit Bimmy he needs to roll a 3 or higher.

Meanwhile, the D20 system: Bob has a +10 Attack, and Jimmy has an AC of 25 while Bimmy has an AC of 17. All you have to do is add that Attack number to your roll. If its meets it then you hit. Basically, its easy to eyeball and to modify with all sorts of conditions..

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 11:36 AM ----------

THAC0 and AC weren't complex, merely not intuitive. It makes more sense to most players that a higher number is better. 3.0 simply changed it so that is how it was.

I still remember the BG and BG2 manuals being huge.

Hmm, okay I can agree that being less intuitive is an acceptable way to describe it.

And yeah, the BG manuals were like spiral bound if I recall. They were basically mini-players handbooks.

[Deleted]

No, I still stand by my statement that it is needlessly complex. Instead of having a single variable being modified (D20), you have 2 variables that are modified in disimilar fashions.

For Example: Bob has a THAC0 of 10, and Jimmy has an AC of -5 while Bimmy has an AC of 7. To determine what needs to be rolled you have to first add a negative to both AC's then add them to the THAC0 number. So to hit Jimmy, Bob needs to roll a 15 or higher. To hit Bimmy he needs to roll a 3 or higher.

Meanwhile, the D20 system: Bob has a +10 Attack, and Jimmy has an AC of 25 while Bimmy has an AC of 17. All you have to do is add that Attack number to your roll. If its meets it then you hit. Basically, its easy to eyeball and to modify with all sorts of conditions..[COLOR="red"]

That's actually the thing I liked about P&P roleplaying games. Nerding my life away, calculating things. I loved it (I guess this might be the reason I like EVE online as well ^^)

[Fencers]

No, I still stand by my statement that it is needlessly complex. Instead of having a single variable being modified (D20), you have 2 variables that are modified in dissimilar fashions.

That's still not more complex though. Less intuitive as someone pointed out, sure. But it's just basic math where 0 is the the target number.

To Hit Armor Class 0 isn't functionally more complex than To Hit Armor Class 25.

It's like... arithmetic.

[WarpedAcorn]

That's still not more complex though. Less intuitive as someone pointed out, sure. But it's just basic math where 0 is the the target number.

To Hit Armor Class 0 isn't functionally more complex than To Hit Armor Class 25.

It's like... arithmetic.

It is arithmetic, but its more work for the player than necessary. One variable is sliding up and the other one is sliding down, then add in negative numbers. The D20 system is so much more streamlined.

Put it this way...when a new player shows up, how long did it take them to understand THAC0 and AC? My guess is it was a lot longer than it was to figure out the D20 system. And P&P games shouldn't be so complex that they are intimidating to new players, that's how you pump life into the game. (I won't comment on 4th Edition though)

[Deleted]

Even something as simple as putting on better armor and having your AC drop instead of raise should give you all the information you'd need to understand how it woks in context of the rest of the information you have available from just playing the game and looking at other items. You also see it just fine if you enable the to-hit rolls in the combat log. I can't imagine it being any simpler than that without it turning into something like a satire of how "gamers are idiots these days".

No just no. Many developers are complete idiots. And so are Wizards...
There is no sense in it, as you might then confuse it with something like decreased dodge chance or something like that. Because after all, some people are spreading bullshit misinformation like the suit of armor would slow you down, or that suit of plate armor is called plate mail, or that longsword is the same thing as arming sword.
The truth about armor in D&D is that it's mostly just modifier to be missed and the same thing is modified with your agility (or whatever they call it) as well, even creating some ridiculous situations where putting or seemingly stronger armor might hurt your chances to survive.

[Anjerith]

No just no. Many developers are complete idiots. And so are Wizards...
There is no sense in it, as you might then confuse it with something like decreased dodge chance or something like that. Because after all, some people are spreading bullshit misinformation like the suit of armor would slow you down, or that suit of plate armor is called plate mail, or that longsword is the same thing as arming sword.
The truth about armor in D&D is that it's mostly just modifier to be missed and the same thing is modified with your agility (or whatever they call it) as well, even creating some ridiculous situations where putting or seemingly stronger armor might hurt your chances to survive.

d&d 4.0+ was made for people that think like this. The simple fact is that, if you grew up on 1st Ed. or 2nd, you are more likely to want to stick to those rulesets. It doesn't make them superior or inferior, its just what you grew up on. Back then, you had to have 10 books for all the rules. Was it tedious? Yep. Did it bother you? Not particularly.

These days, DnD players are spoiled by the simplicity of the rules. As a vet of the AD&D era, I laugh at how dumbed down it has become. That said, I don't fault new players for not understanding or not wanting to bother reading. I find it hilarious that a 4.0+ player would fault a 2nd edition era player for liking what has worked fine for them for the last 30 years.