How did GW2 managed to build its hype "without" GW1?

[Shostie]

Obviously you don't know how to read, I said I like throttling players with better gear, you know...a challenge. All this "It's based on skill" talk is complete BS anyway unless every class is perfectly balanced, if they aren't ( which they're not) then the whole " skill " thing flies out the window and the weaker classes are handicapped by never being able to upgrade.

Your conclusion is invalid. Just because the professions will never be perfectly balanced (no game is able to achieve this) does not mean skill is irrelevant. Also, adding the gear variable to PvP balancing makes it even more difficult to balance.

[Shadzta]

Not necessarily. My husband and I plan on playing both WoW and GW2. It shouldn't be really difficult to understand why: WoW does raiding extremely well, but the rest of the game is fairly lackluster these days and becomes obsolete too quickly (I mean, we were 5-manning Bastion of Twilight a few weeks ago just for a change of pace because we were tired of the heroics, and even that wasn't particularly difficult). GW2 complements WoW very nicely in that regard.

Personally WoW used to do raiding really well...as much as i won't ever play the game I feel rift needs far more awareness of its raiding scene...Rift from my overzealous and way too nerdy research has the best hands down raiding content of any MMO as it stands right now. Smashing out content different raiding zones rather than now do it slightly harder HUE HUE HUE. Shit like that. As for PvP no game has it right...and whether gw2 does it " more right " than others will still remain to be seen despite me playing all beta events stress tests etc I like gw2's PvP and I know it has potential but its all on how things pan out now, how arena net adjusts and tweaks from here on in.

[KrazyK923]

Again, that isn't what happened. What makes you think anybody actually listens to THOSE people anyways? =\

I haven't even been exposed to those people, so as far as I'm concerned, the group you're describing is complete and utter myth.

These forums are proof enough that that is what happened. And why do I think people listen to those kinds of people? Because its "cool" to bag on WoW right now, and the same mentality shifts to then liking GW2.

You haven't been exposed to this group? You have 12k posts here on MMO-Champion. Really? Lawl.

[DrakeWurrum]

You haven't been exposed to this group? You have 12k posts here on MMO-Champion. Really? Lawl.

I really haven't. Often what happens in these forums is I see people jumping the gun, reading between the lines, and more, and then insinuating that somebody is a WoW/Blizzard hater who is flipping their lid and praising GW2 as the savior of MMOs are some other such nonsense, but I've never seen such insinuations be accurate. The person making the case is usually incensed and ridiculously passionate.

[rezoacken]

Not stirring up anything. If I wanted to, I'd say something like, "MOP SUCKS AND IS KIDDY POKEMON CRAP" ectectect.

But it's actually quite simple: the vocal minority who hate WoW/Blizzard lost their shit when info about GW2 came out. They automatically placed it as the greatest thing ever, a revolution to the MMORPG genre, and a game that will destroy WoW.

Personally, both MoP and GW2 look interesting. I'll stick with MoP because I played the beta and loved what I saw, but I'll probably pick up GW2 if the appropriate people that I agree with on games like it.

Well even though there is a bit of truth in what you say... that's a double way nerd rage war. While GW2/SWTOR/Rift all did that... wow lovers (as opposed to haters) spend their time saying "Game will fail", "LOL another wow killer", etc. Overexageration is the way the internet. But beware I think you're exaggerating yourself here.

[Cairhiin]

Arena net was smart enough to copy game mechanics from other games(like the dynamic world idea), changed the looks and feel, gave them different names and called them "innovation" looking eye to eye with players and press like a conman. everyone buys what a conman sells right.

Please care to enlighten me from whom arena.net copied dynamic events. Hint: It certainly wasn't World of Pandas.

[Coldpro]

Well, a big reason is the innovation and how it differs from the typical MMO design. I look at Rift and TOR and I try to find differences between them and WoW. I see GW2 and I try to find similarities.

Comparing RIFT to ToR / WoW is like comparing a Gun to a Banana. Two entirely different things.

OT: GW2 is doing a lot of things differently. We'll see how well it works out though. It also helps that its a Buy2Play game and not Pay2Play.

---------- Post added 2012-08-20 at 05:56 AM ----------

Please care to enlighten me from whom arena.net copied dynamic events. Hint: It certainly wasn't World of Pandas.

RIFT has dynamic events

[Vvulf]

I don't think GW2 did build its hype without GW1. GW1 was a really good game. In fact, it was great, especially pvp, before the balancing issues cropped up with the introduction of the Paragon class. Guild Wars has always been, and will probably continue to be loved mostly by PvPers, although it seems they are trying to do a much better job making the PvE compelling in GW2.

[Shadzta]

Obviously you don't know how to read, I said I like throttling players with better gear, you know...a challenge. All this "It's based on skill" talk is complete BS anyway unless every class is perfectly balanced, if they aren't ( which they're not) then the whole " skill " thing flies out the window and the weaker classes are handicapped by never being able to upgrade.

You are absolutely right weaker classes have no upgrade no classes is perfectly balanced it'll be a fustercluck for the rest of gw2's existence....except for one thing in that removing the gear variable and by making each weapon set having a completely fluctuating skill set its far far far easier to balance the PvP in this game than any other MMO I have played in the last 10 years. Simply because they can tweak the damage of weapon skills as they need to. Here's the kicker...most not all but most anti GW2 people often agree and suggest " Gw2 is a PvP game anyway " and while on surface value that may hold some merit that further goes to prove that if the foundation for easier not perfect but easier balancing is there in that gear isnt a variable in competitive PvP and they now have solid distinction of skill sets that reflect a massive variety of playstyles per profession / class they can tweak the individual areas where it needs to be...for an example...warriors are solid against melee classes but generally fall off against ranged...instead of balancing melee based combat to help against ranged classes and thus throwing warriors too far ahead against melee all over again they just solely tweak warriors ranged options...aka lets look at WoW's balancing philosophy now this could be completely wrong but heres how it appears, to me, to be handled. Warriors require burst damage on mages because they can only stick on them for small periods so in that time they need to do significant damage to warrant balance for mages vs warriors. But by buffing certain damaging criteria for vs mages they now make warriors vs melee too strong. Thus the " WoW isn't balanced 1v1 " arguement becomes valid and strong.

With GW2 you nhave the foundation and capability to be far more stringent and precise with balancing that despite not being perfect it'll lead to a far more competitively balanced game and therefore more enjoyable to play and watch...the only thing stopping them from really pushing well into esports i feel, is how well they use the opportunity to balance etc seeing as they do have the foundation...and secondly how well and how quickly they can support an exceptional spectator mode.

[Dragoncurry]

Let me tell you good sir, where all this hype is coming from. It's from people who think Arenanet will offer them innovative gameplay consistently over a long period of time based on no evidence at all. I played Guild Wars 1, and farmed FoW/UW for 1.5 fucking years for my full set of Obsidian gear. That's two shitty dungeons for 1.5 years. These people have no experience with that, and think that Gwars 2 is going to be super crazy awesome.

Honestly, their innovative gameplay doesn't look all that impressive to me. The skills have to be ultimately simplified because there are so many movesets with various weapons, "realtime" dodging is going to be owned by lag, and the open world encounters are going to be, again, simple in nature because they have to account for unorganized group play.

Granted, Guild Wars will always have a great story, with great music, but again, most of these kids who supply the hype don't know shit about that and after 3 weeks, they're gonna quit and call it a retarded game.

And yes, I'm getting Gwars 2, I loved the shit out of Gwars 1 and for the right reasons: personalized story and wonderful music/world. Everything else is icing on the cake for me. Rest of you can be disappointed as fuck though when you beat it and they ask you to farm 2 dungeons for 4 years for a piece of gear with the same stats as something I bought from a trash vendor in a city.

At least they added jump.

[Shostie]

Please care to enlighten me from whom arena.net copied dynamic events. Hint: It certainly wasn't World of Pandas.

The post you quoted was idiotic. You don't have to copy a dynamic world from other games. All you need to do is try to simulate the real world, to a certain extent.

[Eggoman]

GW1 was about the PvP though... They tried to include more PvE in this one, but in reality WvWvW is the end game.

[rezoacken]

I must admit that I have a hard time understanding pve players hyping it over the roof. I mean pve is cool from the 25 levels I did in each bwe and I'll definetly do it but if I wasn't interested in wvw and spvp I'd probably be a lot less excited.

[Osprey39]

I can honestly say I see why developers don't want to hear some peoples drivel and lock threads after reading that immature babble. I don't claim to be anything, but I'm guessing you might be pubescent? I love the part where you trash games you never played but listen to other people opinions like fact. If you never played Aion ( or Warhammer ) how can you babble on about both continuously. I had people tell me the PvP in GW2 was going to be great and this is after they played the betas, well they must like slow moving characters with whacked out cameras and little to no zoom out that makes large amounts of people sick or nauseous. At least I'm going to try the launch title and not base the game off what people say that flock back to WoW over and over and over and......

So full of angst. Where to start? First off, I never had a thread locked in the Warhammer beta nor was I warned for going off-topic. That didn't change my opinion that they were foolish to be so heavy handed about things. Babbling on? I made one comment about Aion which was in response to your mention of it and all my comments about Warhammer have been in response to yours. That's called having a conversation. You should try doing it without ad hominem attacks if you are capable of it. Pubescent? I wish. I'm about to turn 42 and just because you don't like what I am saying doesn't make it immature. I would say that lashing out and making personal attacks is kind of immature though.

You started this whole ball rolling by saying GW2 had welfare pvp because there is no pvp gear grind. You claim you like to beat people with better gear and that's why you don't like it not having a gear grind. I'm not sure that your motives are what you say they are but whatever. Let me explain why I think pvp gear grinds suck. I'm primarily a pvp player myself. Counting my commute to and from work, I put in 10-1/2 to 11 hours per day at my job. Then I have to come home and take care of upkeep on my house. I also have other hobbies and commitments as well that consume time. All that doesn't leave me as much time as I'd like to play games. I'm absolutely fucking ecstatic that with this game, I'll be able to come home and do some pvp for a couple hours and not have to worry about going up against some punk asses that outgear me because they do nothing but play the damn game all day long.

Hopefully GW2s PvP isn't a bunch of people dueling each other.

I'm not sure what to make of this statement. It sounds like you haven't even played the game yet and if that's the case, I'm not sure why you're ripping on the pvp in it. I don't even think the game has dueling in it. In fact, I remember reading somewhere that they weren't even sure whether they were going to add it or not.

[Migrin]

GW2 looks so promising because it took the cool aspects from GW1 and improved/changed the gameplay and added some innovative things. The only thing that dissappointed me was the removal of dual classes. OMG i can not even stress enough how much I loved GW1 for this.

[Sylvanie]

RIFT has dynamic events

Rift has dynamic content, but not GW2-dynamic events (no chaining of events, no scaling based on the number of participants, no automatic level scaling).

That's not necessarily better or worse, it's a different style: A rift event generally aims at transforming a zone to create the feeling of an invasion, as opposed to GW2 events, which are an integral part of the zone dynamics.

[Inexxa]

£35 for a game that's going to be free forever minus expansions? Count me in.

God knows how much I spent on WoW as well as transfers and char changing, after playing the beta GW2 is fresh/new and I love the dynamics which had me immersed into the game. Personally I don't look back at WoW now and look forward to the 28th

[Deleted]

RIFT has dynamic events

Anet didn't copy the idea from Rift or WAR though. Read this: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cf...er-Online.html

[Drakhar]

Or it was us who played and loved GW1, which is more likely, but as Awe say, please keep those game vs game thread away.


Awe, i think a lot of it comes from us who played GW1 alot too, and Arenanet has done the word to mouth thing, which is highly underrated by so many, also they're good at using the media in their favor, there is also the fact that GW2 just is a very different game than many, and it differs alot from the "traditional" MMO's.

Exactly, let's see some recognition where it's due - the hype has snowballed, but you know who got it to start rolling? Yep, the GW1 players.

2007 GW2 club stand up with me. Did you newer guys know ANet told us to expect a beta in 2008?

You're welcome.

[Miah]

So full of angst. Where to start? First off, I never had a thread locked in the Warhammer beta nor was I warned for going off-topic. That didn't change my opinion that they were foolish to be so heavy handed about things. Babbling on? I made one comment about Aion which was in response to your mention of it and all my comments about Warhammer have been in response to yours. That's called having a conversation. You should try doing it without ad hominem attacks if you are capable of it. Pubescent? I wish. I'm about to turn 42 and just because you don't like what I am saying doesn't make it immature. I would say that lashing out and making personal attacks is kind of immature though.

You started this whole ball rolling by saying GW2 had welfare pvp because there is no pvp gear grind. You claim you like to beat people with better gear and that's why you don't like it not having a gear grind. I'm not sure that your motives are what you say they are but whatever. Let me explain why I think pvp gear grinds suck. I'm primarily a pvp player myself. Counting my commute to and from work, I put in 10-1/2 to 11 hours per day at my job. Then I have to come home and take care of upkeep on my house. I also have other hobbies and commitments as well that consume time. All that doesn't leave me as much time as I'd like to play games. I'm absolutely fucking ecstatic that with this game, I'll be able to come home and do some pvp for a couple hours and not have to worry about going up against some punk asses that outgear me because they do nothing but play the damn game all day long.



I'm not sure what to make of this statement. It sounds like you haven't even played the game yet and if that's the case, I'm not sure why you're ripping on the pvp in it. I don't even think the game has dueling in it. In fact, I remember reading somewhere that they weren't even sure whether they were going to add it or not.

So you have conversations about things you know nothing about because you didn't play them, you base these things off what people say. Who said these things Fox News? MSNBC? some gaming forum where people spew "WoW Rules and Aions a Korean Grinder."? If I based what I play off what people say I would never have had the best PvP experience in at least a decade from SWToR the last 7 months. Like you, I take care of a 380 acre ranch and have a couple hours a day to PvP but had zero troubles getting 2 full Warhero characters. Did I get my ass handed to me? Absolutely, but it sure was satisfying when I got my first piece of real gear and the day I finished my gear set, I started over to change out armor mods. It's a reward, what in life doesn't have rewards for hard work? I do get it though , its F2P so you have to keep it in the LoLegends framework. Its much harder to design gear sets and add stats and such so just give everyone the same set of gear and call it skill based.

If no one can see how being the underdog and winning is more satisfying than beating someone equal then yes I'm done trying to explain. Those Cinderella teams that Beat Duke in March madness even though Duke gets all the recruits, fat, out of shape Buster Douglas beating Mike Tyson, US Hockey team beat, whatever David vs Goliath scenerio you want to use.

I have played the game, only 9 hours but my dueling comments come from .......PvP isn't dueling, in dueling, same class same gear matters. In PvP it's supposed to be a team effort, if you have a Cinderella geared recruit on your team, the team adjust also adding challenge. Some people like challenges, some dont.