Lack of Holy Discussion/FeedBack

[Deleted]

I agree that our mastery can heal for pathetic amounts compared to other classes mastery. It also doesn't really suit our burst style.

Druid's mastery has gotten a huge buff which increases it to 20 seconds now
Paladin mastery is really good, it can stack and absorbs a pretty good amount
Shaman i don't even know what to say.... this mastery is ridiculously good.

[joke]Be careful, if any paladin, druid o shaman read this they are going to get your head in a pyke[/joke]

I agree partially, I find holy's mastery a bit underwhelming. When they anounced the concept of mastery I expected something silimilar to a healing proc trinket: every heal has a % chance to proc an intelligent(or not) heal to a random nearby ally in proportion to the amount healed, or something like that. But with the time I've gotten used to it and came to like it.

I'm not math theorycrafter, but I think that our mastery is actually better than it seems but it's not very noticeable since it's a hot that heals for (usually) low quantities. That said, I still prefer haste over mastery since it helps me to react faster to unexpected damage.

[Heroicmoises]

[joke]Be careful, if any paladin, druid o shaman read this they are going to get your head in a pyke[/joke]

I agree partially, I find holy's mastery a bit underwhelming. When they anounced the concept of mastery I expected something silimilar to a healing proc trinket: every heal has a % chance to proc an intelligent(or not) heal to a random nearby ally in proportion to the amount healed, or something like that. But with the time I've gotten used to it and came to like it.

I'm not math theorycrafter, but I think that our mastery is actually better than it seems but it's not very noticeable since it's a hot that heals for (usually) low quantities. That said, I still prefer haste over mastery since it helps me to react faster to unexpected damage.

The actual mastery is good but it heals for a pathetic amount over a duration. It really doesn't fit our burst healing. Hell druid's and holy priest's mastery should be traded.

But the main issue is that the chakra issue is going live in a few days and isn't being changed.

[Felade]

Idk about Resto Shaman's mastery being super powerful (maybe, but they still look pretty low on raidbots to me, which may just be due to other mechanics like CH range and such), and we've got basically the same thing in Twist of Fate. Druid Mastery takes a bit of micromanaging. The 5 second buff is game changing (it lets Druids keep up Harmony as long as they keep Swiftmend on CD) but I don't know if it is overpowered or not. Good Druids will already have a 100% uptime on Harmony now, and Swiftmend means they only have to cast a direct heal every 25 seconds now. Basically, they are getting 1 more free GCD they can spend on Rejuv from this change. They'll still have to stop and cast a ST heal to take advantage of OCC procs. I don't think that will significantly increase their healing or mobility (they are pretty much 100% moble now anyway).

Holy Paladins, like Priests, have a Mastery that doesn't benefit all of its spells. Absorbs are always really strong for healing though.

Priests...Disc's mastery can be odd. It is decent enough on live where you can afford to be more liberal with shields and POH's, but it might be an issue in MoP with overall weak regen. Holy's Mastery does tend to go to waste a lot. I don't know if burst healing is/should necessarily be our signature effect. Our signature should be flexibility (although Chakra throttles this pretty heavily). Monks are basically getting saddled with Lightwell speheres, though. Be thankful that's not you.

Its okay if our Mastery is terrible if our overall healing is balanced. Haste isn't all that amazing for us either though (not like it is for Druids anyway) and Crit is never attractive for healer. That's more problematic. If no secondary stat is very good for us we won't scale well.

All of these problems, including Chakra, don't matter as much if they balance our healing a bit better. Hopefully, the 10% mana cost reduction has done that. They haven't really done that in Cata (they just put a band-aid on the problem with Divine Hymn buffs).

Basically, Holy isn't a very well-designed spec, but if they at least balance our throughput and mana costs, that's not a big deal. Blizzard employs humans, and they aren't going to be able to make every spec play different without having a few that play more smoothly than others. Making sure specs are different is more important to them than the comfort level of high-end players of any particular spec.

[Heroicmoises]

Idk about Resto Shaman's mastery being super powerful (maybe, but they still look pretty low on raidbots to me, which may just be due to other mechanics like CH range and such), and we've got basically the same thing in Twist of Fate. Druid Mastery takes a bit of micromanaging. The 5 second buff is game changing (it lets Druids keep up Harmony as long as they keep Swiftmend on CD) but I don't know if it is overpowered or not. Good Druids will already have a 100% uptime on Harmony now, and Swiftmend means they only have to cast a direct heal every 25 seconds now. Basically, they are getting 1 more free GCD they can spend on Rejuv from this change. They'll still have to stop and cast a ST heal to take advantage of OCC procs. I don't think that will significantly increase their healing or mobility (they are pretty much 100% moble now anyway).

Holy Paladins, like Priests, have a Mastery that doesn't benefit all of its spells. Absorbs are always really strong for healing though.

Priests...Disc's mastery can be odd. It is decent enough on live where you can afford to be more liberal with shields and POH's, but it might be an issue in MoP with overall weak regen. Holy's Mastery does tend to go to waste a lot. I don't know if burst healing is/should necessarily be our signature effect. Our signature should be flexibility (although Chakra throttles this pretty heavily). Monks are basically getting saddled with Lightwell speheres, though. Be thankful that's not you.

Its okay if our Mastery is terrible if our overall healing is balanced. Haste isn't all that amazing for us either though (not like it is for Druids anyway) and Crit is never attractive for healer. That's more problematic. If no secondary stat is very good for us we won't scale well.

All of these problems, including Chakra, don't matter as much if they balance our healing a bit better. Hopefully, the 10% mana cost reduction has done that. They haven't really done that in Cata (they just put a band-aid on the problem with Divine Hymn buffs).

Basically, Holy isn't a very well-designed spec, but if they at least balance our throughput and mana costs, that's not a big deal. Blizzard employs humans, and they aren't going to be able to make every spec play different without having a few that play more smoothly than others. Making sure specs are different is more important to them than the comfort level of high-end players of any particular spec.

I really really hate chakra with a passion to the point where I may just end up playing another healer this expansion. It's so annoying, I hate being taxed and gimped because of this system.

[Junnia]

We ran a normal 25 man DS last night to test our talents. It was myself, druid and a shaman (pally for a short period of time) as healers. In a nutshell, we all seemed to be just where we left off. Druid always coming in first, I'm second (holy priest) and the shaman was third. My PoM usage almost doubled though.

Here are the logs: (It was 25 man, not sure why it says 10 man ... and I am only looking at kills since I was MIA for some of the trash. Ignore our Ultraxion wipe since a few failed terribly without DBM hah... yes, you have to install the "Old" version of DBM for Dragon Soul now and somehow I didn't actually pick up the red crystal)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...one/?enc=kills

Also, if I ran with Inner Fire I had terrible mana regen but Inner Focus I had next to zero mana regen issues. (ilevel 406) I foresee sacrificing spell power for mana regen until that all levels out again.

Would love to see a heroic run with new talents but our guild has stopped raiding until MoP.

[Holygrail]

Would love to see a heroic run with new talents.

worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-s28gtcgra6ngkfao/

Just finished the guild run (25 Heroic, WoL is bugged and discredited all kills as it counted them as 10N). Much like you we also had a wipe on Ultrax due to the lack of DBM

Giving a little insight into the logs - I am Holygraíl, a Holy/Disc Priest.

I played Holy a lot on the Beta and thought it was OK, never tried Disc.

I hopped onto the live this morning and spent a few hours in LFR messing about with various Specs. I, personally, struggled to be competitive with Holy. Getting out-healed on Warmaster by a Resto Druid 15 iLvls below me was not enjoyable. I gave Disc a go and even without Spirit Shell showing up on my Recount it was proving to be far more competitive.

For tonight's raid, I wanted to give both specs a fair shot. I went Disc for the fights I though it would be stronger than Holy at and went Holy where I thought it was going to be stronger. The new Spirit Shell pretty much cheats a few mechanics due to the sheer amount of absorbs you're able to stack up and it resulted in preforming well (mainly due to the other healers lacking damage to heal due to Disc's very high mitigation).

The one fight I've always been Holy for and always believe it performed fairly strongly on was Ultraxion. I have to say I was utterly disappointed with how Holy performed. Maybe it was just me and other people will find but here's a comparison before and after the patch:

Before: (Can't post links as I'm new here so included the last part of the WoL URL)
WoL /reports/rt-26t5z3n768zvgut6/sum/healingDone/?s=4314&e=4542

After:
WoL /reports/rt-s28gtcgra6ngkfao/sum/healingDone/?s=4017&e=4219

Now admittedly there are different numbers of healers in the logs so it's not an ideal comparison and in one sense you could say the difference between myself and the Holy Pala was more-or-less the same though considering how he was performing tonight, I would argue against that.

Quite simply Sanctuary felt incredibly weak. I'm aware at the moment we're tuned for level 90 but there's no way it should be that bad. I need some tips for Ultraxion it would seem though.

Anywho, after that I decided to go Disc for Warmaster where I had intended to go Holy - again, Disc performed very strongly and I doubt Holy would have matched what Disc did.

The only other fight where I was Holy was Spine, again a comparison:

Before:
WoL /reports/rt-26t5z3n768zvgut6/sum/healingDone/?s=6005&e=6601

After:
WoL /reports/rt-s28gtcgra6ngkfao/sum/healingDone/?s=5280&e=5833

I have to say I'm impressed with how Holy performed on Spine. I stayed in Chakra: Serenity for the entire fight (Started in Sanc to get a Sanc down before swapping). I used Glyphed Renew which proved very strong, doing the vast majority of my healing. The performance of Holy between the two logs are very similar at least.


Overall I am disjointed with Holy's throughput at this stage. Sanctuary is pretty lackluster and Divine Hymn no longer gains ticks through haste. I'm probably just jumping into the deep end a bit early and critising it before I fully understand how to gain the maximum benefit of Holy after the changes.

[Kacie]

This was my log before patch http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/d...m/healingDone/

This is my log tonight http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...m/healingDone/

Both are HC logs but the 2nd one shows as 10m must be a bug, as others have said i really do not like chakra, it makes me feel like a warrior stance dancing lol, it wasn't too bad like now i seem weaker than before maybe its having to change my playstyle i really don't know.

Didn't get to do spine and madness HC this week had alot of addon issues from raiders so we had quite alot of wipes.

[Junnia]

Maybe that's why my Ultraxion numbers were awful. I almost always stay even with druid or ahead on Ultraxion. I thought maybe I missed the red buff.

[Kacie]

I took red then green as our setup was shaman and paladin on blue me and druid on red, then i took a green and so did the shaman

[nobodysbaby]

Finally more and more players realize the Chakra problematics and why it simply can't be good in it's current form... Been disliking it from day 1 and wanted removal/change.

It's one of the most basic rules in game;

No class can be better than any other class at both healing roles (ok, debatable when it comes to palalalas, buuut..), and therefor the 15% "buff" is no buff, it's a normalizer. Without it we become weaker and makes us avoid ST/Aoe spells within Chakras.

Simple!


To me, there is only 1 good option; Removal. They could cling on to it and make it a short (10s) boost CD to AoE/ST/dps. Some would like a mana stance as someone wrote somewhere, that would be more meaningful than right now, but we have IF vs IW for just that, so...


Spellscaling:

Sanctuary=way, way too low healing.
Divine Hymn+Lightspring=waaay too much healing.
Renew=yes, as Danner said, I am worried to that IW+Serenity+Glyph+Renew will become too strong.

I like the effort Blizzard did to create manaregen talents, but these are definitly the ones I am most unhappy with! Where is the imagination??
FDCL=Only for dungeons. I dont ST heal much in 25 m raids (or 10 for that matter).
Mindbender=So short CD you might aswell macro it into every keybinding you got, wich makes it mindless. I would prefer 3 min and ofc a stronger Mindbender.
Solace=No... OK to help out with dps when you can, BUT... just noes...
An alternative would be to make FDCL trigger from PoM or CoH and keep Solace (if anyone really likes it?) or do something nice wiht Hymn of Hope!

And 1 more thing; Why make FH trigger faster (and cheaper) GH/POH? I am a bit annoyed with proccs coming from spells I rarely use as Holy. Same issue as with FDCL. It should have a Holy trigger aswell, then this might be an option.

Yepp.. There are some disturbance in the "flow" for us.

[Rezhka]

From what i had on my last night 10m heroic DS up to Yorsajh (3rd boss), its kinda amazed me that Echo of Light take 4th place on my total overall healing done. tho i don't stack mastery at all. and i love how that Renew become even stronger than drood's Rejuvenation now (glyphed + serenity), with much more cheaper mana cost as well than Rejuvenation. i love Lightspring as well, really help our aoe healing burst a lot.

I love PW: Solace too. to steal-cast 1 or 2 Solace while healing, is something new that have to be managed and its fun. Divine Insight is my favorites talent of all. PoM proc that bouncing without requirement to taking damage is really a powerful tool. and i wish they'll make a tracker for it, note that i don't use power aura.

Chakra: serenity is getting buffed a lot to me. it make our single heal really strong and i think it make us a viable tank healer. chakra: sanctuary, doesnt change much to me. HW: Serenity is getting weaker for no more EoL effect on it, but meh. Lightspring and Divine Hymn are making us OP enough to cover up raid healing lol.

overall so many love from me to holy priest changes. most of ppl may cursed Chakra change. but i'm fine with it. just need a time to adjust with it tho (with an additional key bind for each chakra lol).

[nobodysbaby]

Oh, I really wish I could be that positive about everything Cow But my personality is always looking for flaws, not the opposite^^ "Errorsearcher" we say in Swedish...

[Danner]

I found that my IW+Serenity+Glyph+Renew was actually outperforming a druid rejuvenation yesterday.
At this point, I'm just waiting for a hotfix.

As nobodysbaby said, no healer class is allowed to be stronger than another healer class (paladins aside). But there is also a rule saying that druids have to beat a holypriest in pretty much every ability comparison, because the holypriest has lightwell and improved death.

This is why Rejuv > Renew, efflo > sanctuary and WG > CoH. The rule kinda broke when DH > WG in cata (and believe me, the druids were FURIOUS), but 5.0.4 seem to have fixed that issue.

Except of course, right now, Renew > Rejuv. And then a lot of druids are going to say: If we're not distinctly better at our core healing style than other healers, then what are we?

Which is why the hotfix is coming. You heard it here first!

[Junnia]

As nobodysbaby said, no healer class is allowed to be stronger than another healer class (paladins aside). But there is also a rule saying that druids have to beat a holypriest in pretty much every ability comparison, because the holypriest has lightwell and improved death.

I did LFR in disc today and (I throw a big grain of salt to most LFR) the paladin was definitely the strongest and I came in second. When I did another LFR in Holy it was 2 druids, 3 holy, 2 disc. I was first, outhealing the druids, but not by much. When I do my guild raids our druid is almost always first. She did say she found it hard to surpass me in fights and so she worked extra hard to gain the hps this time around by burning way more mana on rejuvs. And she is saying exactly what you mentioned above ........ the thrill of the druid is gone and it's becoming easier to play with the increased harmony, etc.

I'm sure Holy will get a nerf if we do too well. Unfortunately, renew isn't a huge part of my rotation but I'll have to see what I can do to fix that. I'm so busy staring at my CDs to see if Divine Insight procd......... need a power aura or built-in aura for it. Shadow has it, healers need it too.

[Kacie]

Not sure if this is helpful but I've started using weak auras and thanks to Derevka these are perfect for every healing cd needed.

http://talesofapriest.com/resources/weak-auras/

Disc will be added at some point

[Danner]

I'm sure Holy will get a nerf if we do too well. Unfortunately, renew isn't a huge part of my rotation but I'll have to see what I can do to fix that. I'm so busy staring at my CDs to see if Divine Insight procd......... need a power aura or built-in aura for it. Shadow has it, healers need it too.

Try spamming renew on a fight where there is not too much overhealing. F.ex ultraxion. It's really sick how much HPS you can do while almost not denting your manabar. I must admit I'm much more in favor of a PoH-style for AOE-healing, but renew is really kickin' ass right now.

As for Divine Insight proc visual tip, it has been requested quite a few times on the forums. Still waiting

[Junnia]

Not sure if this is helpful but I've started using weak auras and thanks to Derevka these are perfect for every healing cd needed.

http://talesofapriest.com/resources/weak-auras/

Disc will be added at some point

I've always used power auras but it seems to still be broken. Maybe I'll give it a shot

[Kacie]

I was same but I tried it and they look really good, and shows for all new healing ability's for holy

[nobodysbaby]

I just absolutly love Divine Insight. Just had to say something positive for a change:-)

Mindbender CD is way too short. It's no thrill to use it at all, just feels like part of a rotation that could be (as I said) just be macroed into our keybinds..

[Troodi]

Not playing currently so can't check ingame for the answer, and can't find any info otherwise. Question:

With the changes, I see Spirit of Redemption(SoR) isn't a talent anymore. So is it a spell you have to cast, or is it passive and you HAVE to take it? And what about Lightwell, is it still around?

*curious*

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