Guild Wars 2 PvP Skill Cap

[brangak]

So I'm a hardcore WoW player, played since vanilla and I'm a 2x glad hunter and 1x glad Enhancement Shaman.

I'm dissapointed in the direction that WoW PvP is going so I'm thinking of switching to guild wars 2, however theres one thing that bothers me.
It has been noted in a few over views of the game that the maximum amount of skills you can have out at one time is 10.

........... Where is the skill cap in 10 abilities? My shaman has 68 keybinds, 54 of which are actively used in an arena and BG setting.

Don't get me wrong, Guild Wars 2 look -amazing- just incredibly fun and an all around awesome game, I'm just concerned about the whole 10 keybinds thing.

I feel like I'm going to get bored with just 10 abilities, I know you have -tones- of abilities, but I don't think you can change them out during combat.

So my question is, can somebody please tell me, who's played the Beta and is preferably an accomplished WoW PvPer, how how hard and/or easy the game is compared to WoW. I just want to know if I'm looking at an entertaining PvP setting (Focus targets, CC, defensives, kiting, ect.) or a "lol PvE rotation see who dies first".

[Delias]

MOBAs have 4 skills, are they suddenly the easiest games in the world to do well in? Skill =/= number of buttons to push.

[Zilong]

MOBAs have 4 skills, are they suddenly the easiest games in the world to play? Skill =/= number of buttons to push.

This is very true.

@OP.

Simple answer, it is enough. Even tho you can only take 10, you can weapon swap. already making 15. If you are elementalist you have 25.

But anyhow, you won't get bored (I would say) simply because the combos/possibilities with your own skills (no matter how little slot skills you have) is much greater than most of games out there. Not to mention cross profession skill combos.

And I would say that in gw2 you won't get bored even more because every skill has much more impact in decision making on the spot, making skill of how you play your character way more important, and also keep in mind that WoW pvp is rather slow if you compare to Gw2.

[rezoacken]

You have a smaller number of skills in LoL, do you think the skill cap is low ? If so, go reap tournament money.

Now more seriously, here is the thing.
First , in wow you have A LOT of very situational skills or even things you use at most once every month. You don't have that in gw2, you will use everything often.
Second, in wow there is a lot of redundancy, skills that do damage (or heal) which you do on a rotation to maximize your dps/hps, GW2 is based a lot more around utility skills that need to be use at an exact time (like WoW cooldowns or LoL abilities).
Third, you don't have 10skills but 17 to 20 depending on the class. 5Utility skill, 5weapon skills that you swap for another set of 5 (think stances in wow terms) and then F1 to F4 abilities (some classes stop at F1 other go to F4), then you have your dodge key.
Finally, combat is very different, it has A LOT more to do with an overall team strategy, space awareness and dodging the right move.

Don't worry if you're satisfied by wow's skill requirement, gw2 should satisfy you. But understand it is above all a team game

[barackopala]

Oh please show us your amazing elo at LoL good sir, you seem to be quite amazing at saying that a game is easy due to having to click/press a button, hell even CS1.6-Q3 can be called easy games due to pressing Click to fire.

More buttons doesn't means it requires more skill.

[brangak]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I wasn't bashing on GW2, there were just things I didn't know about it.

[barackopala]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I wasn't bashing on GW2, there were just things I didn't know about it.

It's okay... but please, don't make those random calls on the "oh it hasn't got as many hotkeys ergo is easy", games don't work that way around, if you want to play with loads of hotkeys then try elementalist, you got the 2 weapons switches/4 attunements and a possible elemental weapon, loads of variety.

But sadly, having 1900 keybinds won't make you good at this game, you still have to dodge and use your spells with a lot more coordination than in WoW.

[brangak]

It's okay... but please, don't make those random calls on the "oh it hasn't got as many hotkeys ergo is easy", games don't work that way around, if you want to play with loads of hotkeys then try elementalist, you got the 2 weapons switches/4 attunements and a possible elemental weapon, loads of variety.

But sadly, having 1900 keybinds won't make you good at this game, you still have to dodge and use your spells with a lot more coordination than in WoW.

I was really interested in the Mesmer, that class looks really elusive.

[Dodrin]

OP, I bet (if you're as serious of a PvPer as you say) that of those 64 keybinds, a large part of them are macros.

See, WoWs system allows for such streamlining and mechanization that you are able to cast that heal on your targets target without ever changing targets. Things like this make the game easier. So in WoWs case, all those extra keybinds make the game much easier.

With GW2 10 active keybind system, you have to be much more tactical and sparing in your strategies. You can't "peel" on will, or blow CDs and survive/kill something. the game plays completely differently than WoW.

[barackopala]

I was really interested in the Mesmer, that class looks really elusive.

It's a nice profession, no doubt, but after reading that you like a lot of button mashing action, elementalist might be interesting for you, what i felt when playing mesmer was that it was somewhat like a frost mage on WoW, a lot of control over the battle and your mainly over opponent

[Pickynerd]

How many of those 68 keybinds can you use while moving?

[barackopala]

How many of those 68 keybinds can you use while moving?

You'd have to use all your keyboard and alt/ctrl as more keybinds for it... it seems kind of useless to have that high ammount, most wow players i've seen that play with 30 at max.

[Exedore]

Here's the thing about WoW abilities: almost all of them serve a very narrow role, deal with different targeting possibilities, or are part of a damage rotation. GW2 does away with allied targeting (there goes a good chunk of your macros) by making abilities area effect of all nearby allies. Instead of hitting the correct target macro button, you have to be in the right spot. Many offensive abilities function the same way. GW2 also does away with damage rotations. Your weapon's #1 ability is for general sustained damage and every other ability is a utility or burst damage button. Some abilities are chains. For example, the first cast may lay down a bomb and an optioal second ability in the chain then detonates it. No need for an extra button. Third, and one of the more important points, abilities in GW2 tend to have a broader focus and can do multiple things. There aren't multiple kinds of debuffs (called conditions in GW2). Anything that removes a condition can remove any of them. Many skills have multiple functions or do things that you'd want to use together anyway. Using Guardian as an example, I have a shout that can grant Stability and Retaliation. Stability stops knockdowns and knockbacks and Retaliation is like thorns (but not as awful). I can use it for either, depending on the situation.

The skill in GW2 comes from selecting the right set of skills to fulfill a role and complement your team and using those abilities at the right times. Just like in WoW, you need to plan and coordinate when to use a burst ability, knockdowns, who to stack condition damage on, when do you use your damage reduction, etc. Then you have combo fields, which grant you additional effects based on the field type and the finisher type. For example, you can shoot an arrow through a firewall and it becomes a flaming arrow that can do extra damage. A light field can remove conditions if you use the right finisher type in it.

Then there's the strategic element. Unlike a deathmatch setup, you have to balance where players are all the time so that you don't lose a node while taking another. When is a good time to retreat, reinforce, etc.

[Eggoman]

So I'm a hardcore WoW player, played since vanilla and I'm a 2x glad hunter and 1x glad Enhancement Shaman.

I'm dissapointed in the direction that WoW PvP is going so I'm thinking of switching to guild wars 2, however theres one thing that bothers me.
It has been noted in a few over views of the game that the maximum amount of skills you can have out at one time is 10.

........... Where is the skill cap in 10 abilities? My shaman has 68 keybinds, 54 of which are actively used in an arena and BG setting.

Don't get me wrong, Guild Wars 2 look -amazing- just incredibly fun and an all around awesome game, I'm just concerned about the whole 10 keybinds thing.

I feel like I'm going to get bored with just 10 abilities, I know you have -tones- of abilities, but I don't think you can change them out during combat.

So my question is, can somebody please tell me, who's played the Beta and is preferably an accomplished WoW PvPer, how how hard and/or easy the game is compared to WoW. I just want to know if I'm looking at an entertaining PvP setting (Focus targets, CC, defensives, kiting, ect.) or a "lol PvE rotation see who dies first".

Glad S2/S3. And since you've been Glad you know very well it isn't hard to get... Its just grinding more then the other folks. PvP in GW2 is way different then WoW, more comparable to SC2 in terms of competition. The fights are really more about teamwork, you can be good but you don't have the 321burst, and its not about burning the opponents defensive cooldowns or timing your cooldowns. It is really more about macro coordination so I wouldn't come play this game if you think it is going to be like Arenas.

[Shlamorel]

So I'm a hardcore WoW player, played since vanilla and I'm a 2x glad hunter and 1x glad Enhancement Shaman.

I'm dissapointed in the direction that WoW PvP is going so I'm thinking of switching to guild wars 2, however theres one thing that bothers me.
It has been noted in a few over views of the game that the maximum amount of skills you can have out at one time is 10.

........... Where is the skill cap in 10 abilities? My shaman has 68 keybinds, 54 of which are actively used in an arena and BG setting.

Don't get me wrong, Guild Wars 2 look -amazing- just incredibly fun and an all around awesome game, I'm just concerned about the whole 10 keybinds thing.

I feel like I'm going to get bored with just 10 abilities, I know you have -tones- of abilities, but I don't think you can change them out during combat.

So my question is, can somebody please tell me, who's played the Beta and is preferably an accomplished WoW PvPer, how how hard and/or easy the game is compared to WoW. I just want to know if I'm looking at an entertaining PvP setting (Focus targets, CC, defensives, kiting, ect.) or a "lol PvE rotation see who dies first".

I had the same fear as you at first, but after researching the two classes I'm deciding between (Guardian and Elementalist), I realized how incredibly strategic classes are when they take advantage of teammates' abilities.

Let me give you an example. My guardian has an aoe pull ability that pulls enemies to me. An Elementalist who recognizes what animation I am doing right before I do this AOE pull will recognize "hey, I can use my meteor shower on the group that my teammate is about to clump together." An elementalist who recognize what their teammates are doing will give vast advantages and do much more effective damage in this case than an elementalist who is focusing only on their own weapon abilities.

I envision this game coming down to the knowledge players have of the other classes and how they can capitalize on them. Having 10-20 weapon skills multiplies when you consider that these effects can be amplified, or even changed in some cases, when they are used in tandum with a teammates' abilities.

So what "skills" does this require someone have? The elementalist would need to be aware of other classes' abilities, he would have to have a fast reaction speed to the guardian's ability, and he'd have to use discretion in having appropriate abilities off of cooldown whenever an opportunity like my example takes place. The thing is, not all elementalists will attain this level of awareness, and these skills will separate better elementalists from those who are... well... not contributing as much.

I imagine that if this is the type of strategy we will be seeing in GW2, a segment of the population won't enjoy it. Personally, I think this is a refreshing take on PvP compared to other games. I think superior players and teams will be those who can react quickly, assist (and be assisted by) their teammates, and those who have a broad knowledge of other professions' abilities and how to counter them as well as benefit from them. This is just one example of how this may actually manifest in the game.

This is obviously all my speculation based on my own endless research of all classes' weapon skills and noting how certain skills from one profession could potentially synergize with complementary skills of another profession. However, I in no way (obviously) claim this as a fact, as the game has yet to be released to the masses.

[Seolla]

More abilities =/= higher skill cap. It's how they let you use those abilities on top of the awesome PvP mechanics that determines skill cap.

1) Look at all the fighting games for example; each character literally only has 3-4 abilities and 1-2 supers, but everyone can agree that fighting game skill cap is way high.

2) Having 54 active keybinds in wow doesn't mean 54 active skills as well. If you're like most players, half of those are just macros (/cleanse self, /cleanse party1, /cleanse party2, etc), and a big chunk of those are buffs/totems/trinkets as well. To be honest, I can't really list 10 CORE skills that most of my characters actually use in arena.

3) It's actually 15 if you count that they let you weapon swap in combat for another sets of skills. And if you're counting keybinds, then f1-f4 would also be abilities/skills/stance for a lot of the classes.

4) There are actually MORE skills to be choose from per class in GW2 (afaik); therefore, limiting to 10-15 abilities actually adds another layer of skill: build decision.