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  1. #181
    so it turns out the 7-8 other people injured were shot by police. they apparently fired 16 shots to take him down. i believe as i said earlier, police are no more qualified to carry a weapon, and definitely need more training.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    so it turns out the 7-8 other people injured were shot by police. they apparently fired 16 shots to take him down. i believe as i said earlier, police are no more qualified to carry a weapon, and definitely need more training.
    So your law gives everyone easy access to guns, and your police are not qualified to carry a weapon.
    hmmm, interesting...
    Last edited by ashblond; 2012-08-24 at 10:47 PM.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Dipastick View Post
    Check out a place called Kennesaw, GA. The city has been murder free for 30 years. It has been the fastest growing city in Georgia for 10 years. And 30 years ago, the city mandated that everyone is required to have a gun on them at all times. They actually give out tickets if you are found without one. Its a fact that if you take away all guns, there will still be people that get them and use them. But if you give everyone a gun, then people know that if they use thier gun for crime, there is someone that is going to take them out. I promise you if everyone had a gun in that Colorado theatre, that guy would have thought twice about doing what he did and he would not have shot as many bullets. I think everyone should be required to have a gun on them, but training should also be required.
    I LOVE IT.

    This may be the greatest city in the country for gun advocacy.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by fender010 View Post
    You know what else is fucking sickening?

    This blind childish naivety of a perfect world you are running around with.

    People kill. Often for no good reason. You think you can just legislate that away?

    You are living in a fantasy world.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 06:19 PM ----------



    And so it's better to park your ass on the conveyor belt into the slaughterhouse?

    "Yea, I can do nothing. Go ahead and kill me, I won't even attempt to fight back."

    Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away
    Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air
    You better watch out
    There may be dogs about
    I've looked over Jordan and I have seen
    Things are not what they seem.

    What do you get for pretending the danger's not real
    Meek and obedient you follow the leader
    Down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel
    What a surprise!
    A look of terminal shock in your eyes
    Now things are really what they seem
    No, this is no bad dream.

    The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want
    He makes me down to lie
    Through pastures green he leadeth me the silent waters by
    With bright knives he releaseth my soul
    He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places
    He converteth me to lamb cutlets
    For lo,m he hath great power and great hunger
    When cometh the day we lowly ones
    Through quiet reflection and great dedication
    Master the art of karate
    Lo, we shall rise up
    And then we'll make the bugger's eyes water.

    Bleating and babbling we fell on his neck with a scream
    Wave upon wave of demented avengers
    March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.

    Have you heard the news?
    The dogs are dead!
    You better stay home
    And do as you're told
    Get out of the road if you want to grow old.
    Did I say people don't kill? If I did not why are you saying your statements as though I have. I know people kill people will always kill but arming everyone doesn't suddenly make everyone safe. I rather live in a safer place besides America at this moment honestly. The ridiculousness of people who refuse to see the issues of lax gun laws is just too much.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-25 at 12:40 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dipastick View Post
    Check out a place called Kennesaw, GA. The city has been murder free for 30 years. It has been the fastest growing city in Georgia for 10 years. And 30 years ago, the city mandated that everyone is required to have a gun on them at all times. They actually give out tickets if you are found without one. Its a fact that if you take away all guns, there will still be people that get them and use them. But if you give everyone a gun, then people know that if they use thier gun for crime, there is someone that is going to take them out. I promise you if everyone had a gun in that Colorado theatre, that guy would have thought twice about doing what he did and he would not have shot as many bullets. I think everyone should be required to have a gun on them, but training should also be required.
    Stop lying.

    1999 to 2005 there were 5 murders. Last I checked we're not in 2015, I need to find data for 2006 to 2012 sure there were a few murders then too.


    Also there are towns of same size/comparable size in New Jersey that have seen decreased crime, including 0-1 murders per year, and everyone doesn't own a gun.

    Fairlawn has a decent population and has very very very low rates of crimes.
    Last edited by Themius; 2012-08-25 at 04:42 AM.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by antonatsis View Post
    well seeing a video the other day which showed a guy holding a gun(smg i think)and walking down the road till police stopped him(which was obviously a bait to make police act extreme but unfortunately for him the police officer was smarter than him)
    Bullbaiting is normally seen as jackassery in the gun community. Most see it as a guy just trying to win a paycheck from the cops. However those people baiting cops wouldn't get anything if the cops knew the gun laws they are trying to enforce.

    Quote Originally Posted by antonatsis View Post
    I want to ask, why not make gun laws Draconian. Since you take it for protection why not make those laws quite hard on people that brake them and the requirements at a big level.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...%28by_state%29
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law..._United_States

    That is a small overview of US gun law. You're free to review it.

    Quote Originally Posted by antonatsis View Post
    I mean if I had guns in my home I would surely be pro-gun control because I wouldn't like any weirdo having an armory in his house.
    As long as that weirdo isn't harming anyone I'm not sure why you should care.

    Quote Originally Posted by antonatsis View Post
    If you guys are honest law abiding citizens hard gun controlling laws wont make a difference right?
    As an honest law abiding citizen I don't want to be punished for someone else's crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by antonatsis View Post
    Also another question, why do you actually need AK-47 or machine guns. I mean I can understand having a handgun or a shotgun but machine guns? Isn't that a bit extreme?
    First: Most AK-47s in the US are just semi-auto rifles. They are not what most people would call a machine gun.

    Second: It's not about need. Just like you don't need the exact brand/model of car you have. Or that junk food you ate. Or that beer you drank.
    Last edited by Extrazero8; 2012-08-25 at 08:08 AM.

  6. #186
    Well to the OP, gun ownership in the US is a controversial issue. The right to bear arms is the 2nd Amendment of our constitution. When propositions, statutes, or bills are are given to the general public the priority is the constitutionality of that legislation. If you tried to pass a law for example to ban people from acquiring more than one gun, you would generally have to argue that this law was somehow compatible with the 2nd amendment right to bear arms. Very few issues have been overturned by the Supreme Court, and usually these issues have to do with civil rights. If you hear about Plessy vs Ferguson, Roe vs Wade, or the Dredd Scott decision, these are all examples of that.

  7. #187
    I just need to understand something.

    Like pro-gun folks, have you been paying attention to, i don't know, Venezuela, or Pakistan or Palestine?

    If you want an example of paragons of gun-dominated societies, those are your examples. Those countries are what you're wanting to tack the US closer to when you make these silly "everyone should have a gun" arguments.

    Why exactly, are you so intent on turning our country into something more resembling these, some of the worst countries in the world?

  8. #188
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    I just need to understand something.

    Like pro-gun folks, have you been paying attention to, i don't know, Venezuela, or Pakistan or Palestine?

    If you want an example of paragons of gun-dominated societies, those are your examples. Those countries are what you're wanting to tack the US closer to when you make these silly "everyone should have a gun" arguments.

    Why exactly, are you so intent on turning our country into something more resembling these, some of the worst countries in the world?
    Because if everyone had a gun, we'd turn into Pakistan, right?

    Can you phrase your question in a way that's less batshit insane?
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Because if everyone had a gun, we'd turn into Pakistan, right?

    Can you phrase your question in a way that's less batshit insane?
    Because 100% gun ownership is never going to happen.

    Never.
    Going.
    To.
    Happen.

    You honestly expect my grandmother to get one? Or what about my 5'2", 105lbs cousin? Or my Medical Doctor father. You want batshit insane? Picturing anyone except a certain type of person, never mind ALL Americans, as owning a fire arm is batshit insane.

    And you know what? That's exactly the problem with the countries I listed. It's not that ALL People have guns. It's that CERTAIN people do. And these people have a tendency to organize and a tendency to use their stockpile of firearms to get their way vis a vis versus the majority who never will have one, never fired one, and never need one. Rule of the gun prevails. The armed get their way over the unarmed.

    That's where the "everyone has a gun" fantasy gets blown to smithereens. Because if the US can't even meet full penetration on immunizations or literacy, it's never going to get it for gun ownership. And thus those with guns will quickly begin to throw their weight around against the unarmed. It's the same damn thing and it's happened across cultural lines. Venezuela wasn't even particularly dangerous 20 years ago. About 5 years ago Hugo Chavez ordered a shipment of half a million AK-47s to his poor supporters to "protect the revolution" and keep the peace. And you know what these enlightened, newly armed revolutionaries did? They turned Caracas into the most dangerous city on planet Earth (even worse than Baghdad at the height of the Iraq War) and its Kidnapping capital. People, once unarmed, now heavily armed, use their guns to do whatever they want. And now the situation is out of control.

    I seriously wonder what sick moral universe advocates of this world come from... lets see... a world made safe by EVERYONE having a deadly weapon that can kill people, or a world made safe by NO ONE having a deadly weapon that can kill people. Gee that's a toughie.

    You have your 2nd Amendment. That's it. Constitution also counted black people as 3/5ths a white male land owner for a good 75 years. It says lots of things. But this bizarre, mideavil fantasy world where everyone from twelve year olds to grandmothers wields pistols and revolvers like a goddamn sword? It's a joke, made funnier by the fact that you don't see it as one. You see it as something completely logical and rational.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    1999 to 2005 there were 5 murders. Last I checked we're not in 2015, I need to find data for 2006 to 2012 sure there were a few murders then too.
    Fair enough, but remember, in a gun control debate, the gun grabbers have to make the case. Whether or not this HUGE percentage of gun ownership has entirely eliminated murder, it shows that most certainly crime does not increase with nearly full participation of the citizenry, and almost assuredly decreases.


    Also there are towns of same size/comparable size in New Jersey that have seen decreased crime, including 0-1 murders per year, and everyone doesn't own a gun.
    Which isn't a fair comparison, even remotely. PRESUMABLY there's a lot of things going on, right? So what happens with the AVERAGE case? Everyone is throwing the dice, so you can't just pick the most or least violent city and be like, look, it didn't roll all nines like this town did. To test this case, you would have to compare with the average, not a handpicked city that you chose after the data was already in.


    Kennesaw, Georgia, as a town, has refuted gun control as a policy in America.

    The city's website claims the city has the lowest crime rate in the county.

    See, this is relevant data, not comparison to one single cherry-picked data point in Jersey.

    EDIT:

    Interesting result from the google when I searched this town up:
    http://www.examiner.com/article/open...bbery-kennesaw
    Last edited by Verain; 2012-08-25 at 12:15 PM.

  11. #191
    Bloodsail Admiral ovm33's Avatar
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    To paraphrase a joke I once heard:

    The anti-gun man tries to understand the thug that just broke into his house and raped and murdered his wife.
    The pro-gun man kills the thug the second he steps on his property.

  12. #192
    Deleted
    If people are allowed to carry a gun for their own protection why cant I carry a broadsword, axe, rpg, crossbow, poisoned dagger or electrified whip?

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-25 at 02:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ovm33 View Post
    To paraphrase a joke I once heard:

    The anti-gun man tries to understand the thug that just broke into his house and raped and murdered his wife.
    The pro-gun man kills the thug the second he steps on his property.
    Heard a similar one once:

    The anti-gun man calls the police while a thief is stealing his tv and calls his insurance company the next morning.
    The pro-gun man shoots the thief in his spine, cripling him for the rest of his life, rapes his crippled body and makes love to his precious precious tv.

    Both jokes are completely irrelevant and utterly ridiculous though.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Stop lying.

    1999 to 2005 there were 5 murders. Last I checked we're not in 2015, I need to find data for 2006 to 2012 sure there were a few murders then too.


    Also there are towns of same size/comparable size in New Jersey that have seen decreased crime, including 0-1 murders per year, and everyone doesn't own a gun.

    Fairlawn has a decent population and has very very very low rates of crimes.
    Excuse me? I'm from NJ. Don't try and bullshit me. Fair Lawn is a wealthy neighborhood with at least $100,000/family median income.

    "This just in, Crime low in wealthy neighborhoods!"

    Kennesaw is still above average for Georgia but still way below what anyone would consider upper middle class.

  14. #194
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Fair enough, but remember, in a gun control debate, the gun grabbers have to make the case. Whether or not this HUGE percentage of gun ownership has entirely eliminated murder, it shows that most certainly crime does not increase with nearly full participation of the citizenry, and almost assuredly decreases.




    Which isn't a fair comparison, even remotely. PRESUMABLY there's a lot of things going on, right? So what happens with the AVERAGE case? Everyone is throwing the dice, so you can't just pick the most or least violent city and be like, look, it didn't roll all nines like this town did. To test this case, you would have to compare with the average, not a handpicked city that you chose after the data was already in.


    Kennesaw, Georgia, as a town, has refuted gun control as a policy in America.

    The city's website claims the city has the lowest crime rate in the county.

    See, this is relevant data, not comparison to one single cherry-picked data point in Jersey.

    EDIT:

    Interesting result from the google when I searched this town up:
    http://www.examiner.com/article/open...bbery-kennesaw
    There is no correlation between gun ownership and crime. The only 1:1 correlation that comes with increased amount of guns in the populace is increased amount of gun-related deaths.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    There is no correlation between gun ownership and crime. The only 1:1 correlation that comes with increased amount of guns in the populace is increased amount of gun-related deaths.
    Well that's a good thing then. Even if guns aren't a deterrent they still wouldn't be an enabler.

    Still no reason to eliminate guns.
    Last edited by Laize; 2012-08-25 at 04:34 PM.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Al3sinth View Post
    The guy in the video was carrying a mp5 replica that shoots .22LR (one of the smallest caliber you can get), and not an actual automatic mp5 that fires 9mm. Also like Porcell said shooting semi-auto or automatic (if you can afford it) rifles are extremely fun and addictive.
    Nobody cares about the facts. They just want to shout that guns are bad.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Extrazero8 View Post


    First: Most AK-47s in the US are just semi-auto rifles. They are not what most people would call a machine gun.

    Second: It's not about need. Just like you don't need the exact brand/model of car you have. Or that junk food you ate. Or that beer you drank.
    actually...if i may interject lol. I probably shouldnt let all the antis here see this but just to make a point. If you dont feel like spending $10,000+ and waiting 6 months you can spend anywhere from 300-400 on one of these. They are currently deemed completely legal by the ATF due to the mechanics of how it works. My brother has one on his AK and i just put one on a co-workers.

    If you are familiar with my posts you know im probably one of the most pro gun people here, and while this thing surely put a smile on my face...it scares the shit out of me when i think of how easy it is for some nutjob to get one. Granted, Fully automatic fire of any kind is basically a waste of ammo, and there is a good chance you will miss more than you will hit, but these are very controllable and in a huge crowd it would really be a mess.



    you can get them here

    http://www.slidefire.com/

    Its basically a stock that allows you to easily bumpfire

    Now, if you know how to do it, you can actually bumpfire from the shoulder (most people are only able to do it by hooking their thumb in their belt loop) without even using a stock. In this video im using my AR15 chambered in 9mm. This was before i got the suppressor and shortened the barrel so there was a bit more recoil which actually helped.




    now like i said, this will probably only give the antis more fodder due to the fact you can replicate near full auto fire with a semi automatic weapon.
    Last edited by vaeevictiss; 2012-08-25 at 04:54 PM.

  18. #198
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    I love that second video. I've seen some of his videos before and that looks like so much fun. I wish I had some property to set up a range like that.

  19. #199
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    Bump fire is just a fun trick though. There's a big difference between bump firing and actually having a real automatic weapon.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    Bump fire is just a fun trick though. There's a big difference between bump firing and actually having a real automatic weapon.
    very true, but that stock gets you pretty close. bump firing without it at least does take some skill.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-25 at 04:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    I love that second video. I've seen some of his videos before and that looks like so much fun. I wish I had some property to set up a range like that.
    i think you have it confused, that's my video

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