non-Americans take on the US elections

[Zhangfei]

This is Keynsian logic that the Left adopted and the Right forgot about when Bush left office and Obama took over. Government spending "pretends" to stimulate the economy by pumping money into the system. Every 1% of the GDP you print should equate to 1% of economic growth. Printing money historically, has actually managed to produce less than that because it creates artificial demand and simply causes inflation, instead of actually creating growth.

Obama can't fix the economy, even in 1000 years. Romney wouldn't do much better, Clinton did great because he basically couldn't pass any bills against a Republican Congress, and the Republican congress couldn't stop him from just vetoing their bills. Basically, we're better off if the government does nothing than if they do something.

That's the opposite of what I suggested though. I didn't expect Obama's policy to work immediately so when he initiated the bailout it wasn't likely that it'd be fixed straight away.

There were more causes than just that, of course, but Bush didn't cause it. He did cause the $1 trillion/year deficit that was already running at the time, though, and saddled us with the expensive and difficult to repeal Medicare Part D.

Bush did absolutely nothing to stop these actions despite the huge flashing warning signs, thinking his economy would look great. Pushing for market control would have curbed this but is antithetical to Republican ideals.

Anyway the point is- you absolutely can't assume that the foreign opinion in any way shape or form lines up with the best interest of Americans. A foreigner is far MORE likely to be biased.

You can't assume the opposite either. The foreigner's opinion is equally valid and has the same potential logic than a native opinion, there is no inherent "rightness" to be geographically located somewhere and having access to truth.

What about foreigners who live in America?

[Hiricine]

Ohio, Arizona, Nevada, New York, New Hampshire, Florida, Missouri, Missisippi, Georgia, Virginia, South Dakota, North Dakota those are just a few straight out of my memory. No, I didn't google.

I said the average European. The forums here are probably smarter than most places, but we still have some "average" people around here.

Also Sweden, Norway, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, UK, Germany, Poland, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, part of Russia and Turkey, Finland, Switzerland, Denmark, Ireland, off of memory.

[Morgaith]

Obama may not be perfect but he's a saint by comparison to Romney. I seriously do not understand how anyone can vote for Romney, the shit I've heard about him is just downright absurd.

Swefist and agreed.

[Catta]

very liberal countries on what is a predominately liberal forum...not sure if this thread was even necessary

Or maybe its just the US being conservative on a neutral forum

[Bakis]

I'd actually say that most European's could point out more US states than Americans could find European countries. Except for the coastal regions in America, most Americans tend not to care about world affairs.

This is where I tend to agree as well, I might not pinpoint all (will mix midwest up a bit) but I'm sure I can name about 40+ and get most of them right locationwise.
Also the last part is so true and more important. US being a supwerpower make americans less affected what small nations does while at the same time what the US does will impact many of us frequently.

It has its upsides and downsides of being a superpower

[Puremallace]

Here is some simple realities that foreign folk do not get. Romney is pro business and while fucking over 99% seems messed up business will hire under this guy I kid you not. Right now there is essentially a national hiring freeze because Republicans have managed to hold the economy hostage in the Congress.

Our defense budget is NOT GOING ANYWHERE because those are jobs for AMERCUNS!!! and you cannot cut jobs for them god forbid it bankrupts the fucking country. Most of these defense contracts are in Republicans states so go figure they will block any bill that reduces the budget.

The United States is certifiably fucked come 10-15 years from now when this debt comes due and interest rates sky rocket. I can only hope I move to Canada or die before the shit hits the fan. People do not get this. Greece IS NO LONGER making their own policies anymore. Once those interest rates sky rocket for borrowing money and China starts settin terms we are screwed.

5$ says we have to sell off Alaska by 2025

[shise]

George W. Bush also inherited a budget surplus, while Obama inherited the greatest financial and economic calamity to hit the US since the Great Depression.

What world do you live on? Do you really think a politic has anything to do about that AT ALL?

Wake up.

[Bakis]

Bush did absolutely nothing to stop these actions despite the huge flashing warning signs, thinking his economy would look great. Pushing for market control would have curbed this but is antithetical to Republican ideals.

Pretty sure not even Clown Bush and his henchemen sat and did nothing but that was insignificant to the brilliant idea of starting two major wars while at the same time cut taxes.

[Reeve]

Ohio, Arizona, Nevada, New York, New Hampshire, Florida, Missouri, Missisippi, Georgia, Virginia, South Dakota, North Dakota those are just a few straight out of my memory. No, I didn't google.

From memory:

Iceland
Ireland
UK
France
Portugal
Spain
Italy
Switzerland
Germany
Luxembourg
Belgium
Netherlands
Poland
Czech Republic
Slovakia
Austria
Hungary
Romania
Bulgaria
Slovenia
Croatia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Serbia
Kosovo
Albania
Macedonia
Greece
Cyprus
Denmark
Norway
Sweden
Finland
Lithuania
Latvia
Estonia
Russia
Belarus
Ukraine
Moldova
Vatican City

I think there are a few I'm missing. My point is that because you can name a few states doesn't make you the typical European any more than what I can name makes me a typical American when it comes to geography.

[Teriz]

Here is some simple realities that foreign folk do not get. Romney is pro business and while fucking over 99% seems messed up business will hire under this guy I kid you not. Right now there is essentially a national hiring freeze because Republicans have managed to hold the economy hostage in the Congress.

Our defense budget is NOT GOING ANYWHERE because those are jobs for AMERCUNS!!! and you cannot cut jobs for them god forbid it bankrupts the fucking country. Most of these defense contracts are in Republicans states so go figure they will block any bill that reduces the budget.

The United States is certifiably fucked come 10-15 years from now when this debt comes due and interest rates sky rocket. I can only hope I move to Canada or die before the shit hits the fan. People do not get this. Greece IS NO LONGER making their own policies anymore. Once those interest rates sky rocket for borrowing money and China starts settin terms we are screwed.

5$ says we have to sell off Alaska by 2025

The U.S. will not become Greece. Unlike Greece, the U.S. has a monopoly over it's own currency, and generally owes its debt to itself. The idea that the U.S. is anything like Greece economically is retarded, and I really wish people would stop believing it. If you need another example, look at Japan. Japan has more debt than Greece does, but it isn't going bankrupt because it controls its currency.

[Reeve]

What world do you live on? Do you really think a politic has anything to do about that AT ALL?

Wake up.

Bush's inheritance absolutely affected how much of a surplus/deficit he could run in subsequent years. I'm not claiming Bush caused the 2008 crisis, but it certainly affected how much of a surplus/deficit Obama could run in subsequent years.

[Hiricine]

US states aren't equivalent to European countries.

California has the population of multiple European countries put together, on top of New York and a few others. Illinois has a larger population than Sweden, but I'm pretty confident most Europeans couldn't point it out on a map.

[Deleted]

Personally, I am from Australia and I support Barak Obama. I think the republican party has pretty much become the Americanised version of the taliban who follow religious text over scientific evidence and are unwavering in their belief no matter what evidence is provided. Not to mention Romney wants to tax middle classes and give tax breaks to rich! I find him very untrustworthy and tbh a bit of a joke. He is way worse than george bush and that man singlehandedly lead america into a 16 trillion dollar debt.

So, non-Americans, who do you support in the US election and why? It would be good to know which country are you representing.

I'm from the Netherlands and I agree with you for the most part.

The republican party is a joke, they just pull off so much retarded stuff that I can't take them seriously.
It's a shame though, because sometimes they have the occasional good point. But it gets burrowed under a shit pile of religious arguments and other scandals.

But that's what you get for having a two party system. Even if you agree on a few things the republicans stand for, you also have to agree on all the shit.

So yeah, Obama seems to be the FAR better option. I might not agree on a few things, but overall he's a much better choice.

[Catta]

Ohio, Arizona, Nevada, New York, New Hampshire, Florida, Missouri, Missisippi, Georgia, Virginia, South Dakota, North Dakota those are just a few straight out of my memory. No, I didn't google.

I just want to point out that Virginia is Commonwealth and not a state together with Pennsylvania, Kentucky and Massachusetts...

So in reality you only have 46 states.







I watch too much QI...

---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 04:52 PM ----------

California has the population of multiple European countries put together, on top of New York and a few others. Illinois has a larger population than Sweden, but I'm pretty confident most Europeans couldn't point it out on a map.

They do not, however, have sovereignty and the ability to lay down all of their own foreign policy

[Hiricine]

The U.S. will not become Greece. Unlike Greece, the U.S. has a monopoly over it's own currency, and generally owes its debt to itself. The idea that the U.S. is anything like Greece economically is retarded, and I really wish people would stop believing it. If you need another example, look at Japan. Japan has more debt than Greece does, but it isn't going bankrupt because it controls its currency.

While controlling and printing your own currency does prevent Greece-like Crisises, it only does so long as you can buy goods with your money. Japan produces many goods and sells them overseas, putting them at a huge advantage as a seller by deflating its currency, at a cost to its own citizens. The US on the other hand basically makes nothing, and if Eastern Asia begins to realize that its better off selling goods to their own people instead of to the US, it won't matter how much money the US prints.

[Puremallace]

The U.S. will not become Greece. Unlike Greece, the U.S. has a monopoly over it's own currency, and generally owes its debt to itself. The idea that the U.S. is anything like Greece economically is retarded, and I really wish people would stop believing it. If you need another example, look at Japan. Japan has more debt than Greece does, but it isn't going bankrupt because it controls its currency.

Notice how I say 10-15 years from now at these borrowing rates. I know what debt/gdp ratios are, but it is also a fact that if we keep printing money and devaluing the dollar it will eventually catch up.

Our global economic policy right now seems to be lets hope everyone else fucks up their economies worse then ours, so that we stay on top.

[Zhangfei]

California has the population of multiple European countries put together, on top of New York and a few others. Illinois has a larger population than Sweden, but I'm pretty confident most Europeans couldn't point it out on a map.

It doesn't matter. More Europeans could point to the USA on a map than vice versa.

My home county in the UK has a bigger population than Wyoming, Alaska and Rhode Island, but I bet most Americans couldn't point it out.

It's about countries.

[Deleted]

To be fair to idiot here, most Americans know European geography about as good as europeans know American geography. Most everyone in Europe probably couldn't point out more than 2 US states.

Except Europe doesn't have a history of isolationism. So it's more common for Europeans to look past their own borders than it is for Americans.

And I know pretty much all the states of the US, while I doubt you can name even close to a quarter of the countries in South/Eastern Europe.

[Hiricine]

They do not, however, have sovereignty and the ability to lay down all of their own foreign policy

While this is true, European governments as a whole don't even have militaries large enough to make their foreign policy significant, most states national guards probably match the size of even the largest European countries. Also, Europe is basically giving up their own sovereignty to the UN these days, making individual countries less significant (except for Germany, France, and the U.K., who run it)

[Teriz]

While controlling and printing your own currency does prevent Greece-like Crisises, it only does so long as you can buy goods with your money. Japan produces many goods and sells them overseas, putting them at a huge advantage as a seller by deflating its currency, at a cost to its own citizens. The US on the other hand basically makes nothing, and if Eastern Asia begins to realize that its better off selling goods to their own people instead of to the US, it won't matter how much money the US prints.

More bullshit. The U.S. still makes plenty of stuff. We're also one of the largest exporters in the world. We export everything from aircraft to soybeans to plastics to textiles. Where are you getting this crap?