Dodge in pvp (MoP)

[Illana]

How do you guys feel about the fact that dodge will be useless in pvp in MoP?

According to a certain person, 3% expertise is going to negate any amount of dodge in pvp.

In a way i guess it's nice since it removes a huge area of RNG in pvp, but I'm wondering how you guys are taking it.

EDIT: found out this is NOT the case and you guys will be keeping your dodge. The guys were wrong about it and im kind of disappointed.

[Deatheryn]

I personally don't think dodge is necessary in PvP. Your mitigation comes from Res. and the fact that expertise negates all dodge puts everyone on a more lvl playing field.

[Illana]

i think it's good too, but is there any kind of patch notes that specifically state that 3% is going to negate ALL dodge in pvp?

I haven't been able to find any that relate to this issue.

[Murdos]

i think it's good too, but is there any kind of patch notes that specifically state that 3% is going to negate ALL dodge in pvp?

I haven't been able to find any that relate to this issue.

...

You're a bald-faced liar.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-aspect-on-GCD

YOUR THREAD, MADAM. >8|

[Illana]

...

You're a bald-faced liar.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-aspect-on-GCD

YOUR THREAD, MADAM. >8|

link me any patch notes that were posted in that thread that had any reference to 3% expertise being the hardcap in pvp.

Don't call people liars, it's not polite especially when you're wrong.

[Murdos]

You're lying by saying it's good. You just spent twelve pages raging hard about how it was going to ruin the game and make you quit.

You're a lying liar that lies.

[Illana]

You're lying by saying it's good. You just spent twelve pages raging hard about how it was going to ruin the game and make you quit.

You're a lying liar that lies.

again, your lack of reading comprehension is astonishing.

I'm mad because if 3% WASN'T enough I would miss a ton of shots

it would be AWESOME if 3% was the required number.

[Murdos]

I hope you're going back and editing your posts then, otherwise I'll just quote everything you whined about in here until you say uncle.


OH LOOK YOU DID.

You're a lying liar that lies and can't stand to be called on your lies, edit harder. Maybe you can make it look like you were on our side the whole time.

[Illana]

I don't even understand what you're talking about anymore.

[kosechi]

How do you guys feel about the fact that dodge will be useless in pvp in MoP?

According to a certain person, 3% expertise is going to negate any amount of dodge in pvp.

In a way i guess it's nice since it removes a huge area of RNG in pvp, but I'm wondering how you guys are taking it.

every time i fought a rogue or feral in cata this is what i saw pop up on my MSBT

OP OP OP OP

fuck dodge. why did they get 30% passive dodge on top of their already huge toolkit of defensive cds while i only get around 10% parry from strength?

it takes zero skill to get a dodge streak against a ret or a warrior. absolutely zero.

[Synche]

every time i fought a rogue or feral in cata this is what i saw pop up on my MSBT

OP OP OP OP

fuck dodge. why did they get 30% passive dodge on top of their already huge toolkit of defensive cds while i only get around 10% parry from strength?

it takes zero skill to get a dodge streak against a ret or a warrior. absolutely zero.

Run with higher Expertise then, it helps a bit with that. I run 5% hit / 20 exp on live (4.3 anyways) and while it might not help a whole lot against rogues / druids, most other classes don't have that high of dodge.

Also, Strength classes are now getting a pretty high benefit to Parry (5.0.4), last time I logged onto the beta I seem to remember having like 30% parry as Arms, I will take that.

[Wildtree]

Run with higher Expertise then, it helps a bit with that. I run 5% hit / 20 exp on live (4.3 anyways) and while it might not help a whole lot against rogues / druids, most other classes don't have that high of dodge.

Also, Strength classes are now getting a pretty high benefit to Parry (5.0.4), last time I logged onto the beta I seem to remember having like 30% parry as Arms, I will take that.

Arrows and Bullets can't be parried. Never.

[Illana]

After a little bit of testing from someone else, it seems that this statement is FALSE

3% expertise will not cover any amount of dodge. Agility classes will still be annoying in mop to melees and hunters.

[Deleted]

I think these changes seem fair, although i don't know how balanced hunters are in MoP in terms of damage and so on. Having to need expertise is a given, why should hunters need less rating requirements than any other? How is it logic to not be able to dodge arrows, that sounds way more common than dodging bit melee hits tbh.

About maybe not being able to fully cap it out, well if you're to get that then im pretty certain that any melee is gonna want to be able to. I seriously hardly believe you're going to have such a hard time "missing alot of crits for damage". Can tell you playing warrior/rogue/ret is a pain in the arse vs dodgers, not just because losing damage, but because missing vital shit you need.

Shadowstep just to land a kidney, charge/fear just to land a throwdown, and in rets case -> Miss Crusaderstrike? No, you don't get your cooldown refunded, or get any holy power. You have to wait another 4.5 sec to be able to get it. 2 misses in a row and your partner(s) could be dead because you couldn't wog/activate zealotry fast enough etc etc.

What i'm saying is that you'll have to play around it just like melee's always have needed to do. Whether it's fair compared to casters i don't know, they don't have as much instants perhaps and have to cast do to the real damage but it sounds fair when compared to melee though. I don't know much of hunters toolkit since i don't play one, but maybe you need to line up the damage burst together with pet-stun or some shit like that. You can't dodge when you're stunned.


This answer may suit your other thread better, but i'll let it stay and add an answer to this thread aswell:

If dodge would be worthless, then i'd say it'd be unfair since strenght-melees parry is higher, isnt it? Also, cooldowns like Evasion, if its still in the game in MoP, would still work wouldn't they? It would remove some rng, and perhaps some skill with it, but that could also easy it up for people with bad latency.

[Synche]

Arrows and Bullets can't be parried. Never.

Wuh ? I was never referring to arrows / bullets being parried, only about dodge and the expertise that I run with in PVP. I will love the fact that I will be able to dodge hunter shots now,

[Illana]

I think these changes seem fair, although i don't know how balanced hunters are in MoP in terms of damage and so on. Having to need expertise is a given, why should hunters need less rating requirements than any other? How is it logic to not be able to dodge arrows, that sounds way more common than dodging bit melee hits tbh.

About maybe not being able to fully cap it out, well if you're to get that then im pretty certain that any melee is gonna want to be able to. I seriously hardly believe you're going to have such a hard time "missing alot of crits for damage". Can tell you playing warrior/rogue/ret is a pain in the arse vs dodgers, not just because losing damage, but because missing vital shit you need.

Shadowstep just to land a kidney, charge/fear just to land a throwdown, and in rets case -> Miss Crusaderstrike? No, you don't get your cooldown refunded, or get any holy power. You have to wait another 4.5 sec to be able to get it. 2 misses in a row and your partner(s) could be dead because you couldn't wog/activate zealotry fast enough etc etc.

What i'm saying is that you'll have to play around it just like melee's always have needed to do. Whether it's fair compared to casters i don't know, they don't have as much instants perhaps and have to cast do to the real damage but it sounds fair when compared to melee though. I don't know much of hunters toolkit since i don't play one, but maybe you need to line up the damage burst together with pet-stun or some shit like that. You can't dodge when you're stunned.


This answer may suit your other thread better, but i'll let it stay and add an answer to this thread aswell:

If dodge would be worthless, then i'd say it'd be unfair since strenght-melees parry is higher, isnt it? Also, cooldowns like Evasion, if its still in the game in MoP, would still work wouldn't they? It would remove some rng, and perhaps some skill with it, but that could also easy it up for people with bad latency.

you kind of answered yourself with the whole "why should hunters be exempt from expertise" warriors can charge every 12 seconds to guarantee a mortal strike, they have hamstring to slow people down so it's easier to get behind them. Hunters have NONE of this and naturally being ranged means it's incredibly hard to get behind someone if they're paying attention

I'm not asking for LESS stats, i wouldnt care if we needed double the amount of hit like casters do it's just the prospect of having my high damage, long cooldown shots miss due to RNG that I can do nothing about.

I could line up all my burst every 45 seconds with intimidate but that's just the thing: my sustained pressure is almost non-existent. Sustained pressure is what wins games because eventually when you do make the switch and burst the enemy team is already under pressure.

I wish dodge and parry would be removed in pvp (some skills may need to be adjusted to go with it) since im a firm believer in the fact RNG does not make for interesting or innovative play.

[Flaks]

Melee agility classes will continue to have high dodge. Also, plate classes will have really high baseline parry (25% on my warrior) since the strength ---> parry conversion got buffed like crazy.

There's going to be more bullshit annoying rng than ever. They should have removed/reduced passive dodge from agi melee, not buffed parry on plate melee to exacerbate the problem further.

[Illana]

Melee agility classes will continue to have high dodge. Also, plate classes will have really high baseline parry (25% on my warrior) since the strength ---> parry conversion got buffed like crazy.

There's going to be more bullshit annoying rng than ever. They should have removed/reduced passive dodge from agi melee, not buffed parry on plate melee to exacerbate the problem further.

100% agree.

kind of wished all the people in my thread were right and 3% expertise would cover all dodge/parry, that would be awesome =(

[Aquren]

Oh well, I just gotta cap expertise once again as a rogue, welcome to my world... OR you can choose not to cap it and see those scatters missing healers like my gouges if not capped, fair game is fair.

Anyhow, a bit offtopic, but been waiting for this =D first I can't stun deterrence and then you guys also got stealth in addition to flare. Now I'm just goig to dodge your bullets like a boss.

EDIT:
And if 3% is enough to negate all dodge, rogues are dead. Literally. No excuse, if you can't dodge that meleetrain you're dead. End of story.

[Sunslayer]

I personally don't think dodge is necessary in PvP. Your mitigation comes from Res. and the fact that expertise negates all dodge puts everyone on a more lvl playing field.

This guy has it right. Dodge and Magic resist had no place in PvP. RNG can cost you matches. RNG is bad in a skill-based environment. With server lag it isn't hard to misjudge having someone's back. RNG is bad.

---------- Post added 2012-08-28 at 03:32 PM ----------

fuck dodge. why did they get 30% passive dodge on top of their already huge toolkit of defensive cds while i only get around 10% parry from strength?

it takes zero skill to get a dodge streak against a ret or a warrior. absolutely zero.

Amen!......