The Warrior Protector of the Pandarian Mists: A Protection Warrior Guide 5.0

[Deleted]

The cooldown of Dragon Roar is good enough to 1) make you not waste too many gcds that would be better used on rage regen attacks 2) it syncs with Bloodbath (something else you should change if you are worried about damage/threat). It also has the delicious additional effect that it always crit and ignore armor, something to be glad of as prot (5% crit and no colossus). Also, hit cap is more necessary than exp cap, and you lack 1%.

Finally, if you have trouble on tank swaps, intervene and /sit, so the boss crits you and put your vengeance at the proper level. You can cover the damage with a barrier if you have the rage to do so, specially when there is no raid damage and you can intervene ~15 seconds before the swap (if there is no damage the vengeance stays at the last level 20 secs, if something is ticking it will refresh and drop down, so don't do it too soon), in order to achieve the full vengeance the boss melee damage can give you (one autoattack puts you only to 50% of steady state).

I don't tank with a monk, but I don't think that you should have any trouble in swaps with those two of things. If your level of vengeance is ~the same as the monk or somewhat lower, he shouldn't steal aggro doing your rotation.

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Edit: Ahh... right, didnt't notice the draenei thing. Ty.

[Deleted]

He is a draenei though so the hit is covered...

I dont have any big experience about tanking with monks, but I know I've completely stopped DPSing after a tauntswap if I'm afraid of pulling aggro. Your co-tank has to do the same. Usually going auto-attack mode is enough for me but if thats not the case for you guys then so be it. He just have to deal with it accordingly.

You've grasped the big picture of our threat and unless you are tanking in the wrong stance theres not much you can do except to tell your mate to chill. He should know this already though and unless you struggle with outthreating DPSers you shouldnt worry to much about it.

[Deleted]

Thank you very much for your replys guys but actually I'm really worried about the fact that I'm the only one around here that is facing the aggro problem with the monks.

Are Brew Masters so overpowered in Agility terms that they generate such amount of aggro and also make almost the same DPS as melee with some HC pieces?

That's because our tank really does A LOT of dps in bosses and his avoidance is very good.

It's the dawn of the DPS tanks and the end of classic tanks?

Really worried

[Deleted]

AFAIK monks have better aoe, but not better single target damage. If you want to post some log... Mayhaps there is something wrong on your skill usage.

[Deleted]

In general from what I'm seeing, the majority of monks higher DPS is due to them taking significant amounts more damage than the other tanks on the high ranks. From tanking on my monk alt, I would have to say that it is EXTREMELY gear dependant and pretty dependant on player skill and if played incorrectly will take much higher damage than the other classes at an equivalent gear level

The major stumbling block for monk is getting enough hit and expertise to make elusive brew have a reliable uptime, and then getting enough haste off random pieces of gear to keep shuffle at a decent uptime then dumping chi into purifying brew to remove stagger and Guard, WHILE keeping shuffle running. That requires a fair amount of haste and in all blues its pretty much impossible. You can easily see how much haste effects the class by just playing under a lust and seeing without any issues, if done on the pull such as on Gara'jal you can easily get 40+ seconds of shuffle within the lust, leaving you free to dump it into purifying

Generally speaking on all of the Heroic 25 bosses, I am either at the very top of the meter or topping it, depending on the fight and I would say that should generally be the case for most tanking classes... I wouldn't say its the end of classic tanking, reverting almost to the vanilla model infact... except its based on DPS now and not threat, because the MT in a fight now contributes a REALLY significant portion of the raids DPS, usually topping and you are going to be absolutely pivotal in any DPS checks

[Deleted]

Generally speaking on all of the Heroic 25 bosses, I am either at the very top of the meter or topping it, depending on the fight and I would say that should generally be the case for most tanking classes...

It's a pretty interesting dynamic between 10 man and 25 man in that sense comparing parses on various fights. I've never tanked 25-man, but seeing how boss damage scales up and amount of adds for example it's probably a lot of high numbers in non gimmicky fights where 10-man tanks won't have a chance to top. Then again i don't equip DPS items or /sit for extra vengenace, so i'm probably gimping myself in the event i wanted to top on those fights too.

[idefiler6]

In general from what I'm seeing, the majority of monks higher DPS is due to them taking significant amounts more damage than the other tanks on the high ranks. From tanking on my monk alt, I would have to say that it is EXTREMELY gear dependant and pretty dependant on player skill and if played incorrectly will take much higher damage than the other classes at an equivalent gear level

The major stumbling block for monk is getting enough hit and expertise to make elusive brew have a reliable uptime, and then getting enough haste off random pieces of gear to keep shuffle at a decent uptime then dumping chi into purifying brew to remove stagger and Guard, WHILE keeping shuffle running. That requires a fair amount of haste and in all blues its pretty much impossible. You can easily see how much haste effects the class by just playing under a lust and seeing without any issues, if done on the pull such as on Gara'jal you can easily get 40+ seconds of shuffle within the lust, leaving you free to dump it into purifying

Generally speaking on all of the Heroic 25 bosses, I am either at the very top of the meter or topping it, depending on the fight and I would say that should generally be the case for most tanking classes... I wouldn't say its the end of classic tanking, reverting almost to the vanilla model infact... except its based on DPS now and not threat, because the MT in a fight now contributes a REALLY significant portion of the raids DPS, usually topping and you are going to be absolutely pivotal in any DPS checks

I don't get how monks taking more damage would make a difference, outside of avoidance. Isn't vengeance now calculated on a % of unmitigated damage? I must be missing something here.

[Deleted]

I think that the more damage you take, the more vengeange you get.

That's why you can sit during a boss, receive a hug critical hit from the boss and get your vengance nearly full

[Dragaunus]

I killed Empress, but... i get a lot dmg from small add, many times i die really fast.
wtf i doing wrong? while i see many warr tank pov and they mitigation +-50% of this damage.
any tips (help plz!)?

log: worldoflogs .com/reports/t0v65c96rnzm495h/

[Deleted]

I don't get how monks taking more damage would make a difference, outside of avoidance. Isn't vengeance now calculated on a % of unmitigated damage? I must be missing something here.

Well... vengeance accounts for unmitigated damage that connects, so armor, blocks, CDs, don't diminish it. But an avoided attack (from a bosslevel boss) only refresh vengeance to 20, it doesn't continue to make it ramp up. So... it's somehow detrimental, at least on tank swaps. Given enough time or a crit it doesn't matter. Having less armor doesn't matter for sure.

[idefiler6]

Well... vengeance accounts for unmitigated damage that connects, so armor, blocks, CDs, don't diminish it. But an avoided attack (from a bosslevel boss) only refresh vengeance to 20, it doesn't continue to make it ramp up. So... it's somehow detrimental, at least on tank swaps. Given enough time or a crit it doesn't matter. Having less armor doesn't matter for sure.

That's what I was wondering, do monks have less avoidance on average?

And Anto29...no I don't think they'll be taking a crit from any boss.

[Deleted]

For monks I *believe* the staggered DoT counts towards vengeance

Monk avoidance is... well as I've said, just so gear dependent Once you get hit and expertise capped you start getting alot more white crits to trigger Elusive brew, which is a massive amount of dodge.. aswell as the passive stats of Haste and Crit off your gear that you get. Without elusive brew monk avoidance is... paltry... at best

So with low gear, or specifically ignoring Elusive brew, you can gimp your avoidance to pretty criminal levels to DPS :P


Just overall in general though, in lower gear you tend to see monks taking quite a bit more damage, and spiky damage at that until they reach a pretty high gear level this tier. Conversely due to that scaling, I reckon you will see a re balancing of the class fairly soon as in the next tier or the one after, due simply to monks scaling so incredibly well

---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 04:22 AM ----------

I killed Empress, but... i get a lot dmg from small add, many times i die really fast.
wtf i doing wrong? while i see many warr tank pov and they mitigation +-50% of this damage.
any tips (help plz!)?

log: worldoflogs .com/reports/t0v65c96rnzm495h/

Yeah these adds can be pretty bursty, for the majority of it you seem to be doing really nicely and reducing a lot of the damage. The only things I could suggest would be to rely on Shield Block a bit more as that really is going to be your major damage reduction vs the adds as I don't believe you are going to get better spike reduction using barrier on 10HC as vengeance wont be crossing the 'immortal point'. It can also be a bit RNG and depends on which adds decide to fixate who, just make sure to have whoever is kiting the adds to take them away from the pack you are tanking and not near them

From looking at the log of your kill aswell, it seems your priest only cast pain suppression on you once, the other two on himself:P, I would suggest, leaping in with Shield Wall, getting a PS when that runs out, then using demo shout and then finally banner, as the later two cooldowns should be during the time when an add is fixated on someone else and by then you should have had atleast 1 taken down. All the time making sure to keep block up as much as possible and avoid shockwaving unless you are either; Going to die otherwise, have block ready for when it expires or can get a big shield barrier with a block as soon as the barrier gets eaten or if 1-2 of the adds are fixated on someone else

[Deleted]

Nah, in 10 HC too the vengeance is enough to be inmortal with Barrier, you get 550~560k, so unless very unlucky with avoidance, they won't pierce it. By the time SW and PS have ended, the healers can forget about a warrior. At least if people have not stunned adds. If your raid doesn't stop that, your CDs will run out and you won't the vengeance nor the rage to keep up.

Did you try glyphed SW Affdeus, and you track how much time and how much absortion has barrier left (apart for always chaining the PS after the SW)? I'm looking only at the kill, but you seem to have to many "holes" in the part where the adds are up.

[Dragaunus]

Did you try glyphed SW Affdeus, and you track how much time and how much absortion has barrier left (apart for always chaining the PS after the SW)? I'm looking only at the kill, but you seem to have to many "holes" in the part where the adds are up.

yes, with our dps we have only 1 P2, so i glyph SW. And my best SB was 725k absorb but this value drop so fast, probably after fixete (or dunno why).

@eddytheone
trying survive in this fight is really a big frustration. I "pop" everything and looks like nothing... shockwave, SW/SB, Last Stand, banner ... everything "on CD".
:/
btw... last night we try Tsulong Heroic and... dat Shadow Breath scary me.

[Deleted]

550k static vengeance = O, does that mean tanking the reavers aswell? If so... WTB : < Most I got on 25 was 450k with the exception of using mocking banner when the other tank died and I went up to 750k... got a 1.75 Million SBar... *dreamy eyes*

Hmm that seems odd, you are doing well at reducing the damage and taking less than your DK tank, so that could be part of the problem that they are focusing on him too much
Yeah Tsulong can be interesting, the most lethal are when your raid is moving from one side of the beam to the other AND breath synchronize, so just be ready to dump rage into barrier with a big CD when that happens, otherwise you will go splat ^^

[Deleted]

Truth be told, I looked at the biggest barrier I had, and it was 1304977, and since I don't have the 4pc... I would say that at some point you have 630-640k of vengeance tanking the 6 windblades, no reavers. Yes, inmortal it is a good definition at that point xD

[Deleted]

Truth be told, I looked at the biggest barrier I had, and it was 1304977, and since I don't have the 4pc... I would say that at some point you have 630-640k of vengeance tanking the 6 windblades, no reavers. Yes, inmortal it is a good definition at that point xD

This happens on 10-man HC as well. It seems those mobs aren't hitting any lesser in 10-man.

Hmm that seems odd, you are doing well at reducing the damage and taking less than your DK tank, so that could be part of the problem that they are focusing on him too much

Haven't checked the logs yet, but in order for the SBar spamming to work, you need to be able to chain them Affdeus. If you drop it even for 1, 2 sec, you'll most likely die. So the overall damage reduction isn't really that relevant here. You can be reducing tones of damage, and still die during that 1 sec window where your SBar dropped.
Make sure you always have a back up CD ready for those times thus (Last Stand/Demo Shout). Don't blindly use them ''on CD'' just because they're up.

The only tricky bit here is to be able to generate enough rage to keep that Barrier up at all times, if you can do that, then you should easily survive.
Finally, make sure the mobs are all well in front of you, especially your current target -- they have this annoying habit to get in your back, and get ''out of sight''. This can easily happen if you aren't careful, and make you lose precious Revenge GCD's, which will definitely rage starve you.

Don't hesitate to pop smaller Barriers as well, if Rage flow isn't that high. Even if you can manage to spam 20-rage Barriers, you should still survive.

GL !

[Deleted]

Low ping + revenge spam is your friend :P

[Deleted]

Speaking about shield barrier...

Someone knows an addon to track the amount of damage that the shield is going to absorb if you use it?

Similar to blood shield tracker for Dks.

[Deleted]

I don't have an addon per say, but I suggest you use WeakAuras anyway as it and myself are currently engaged and on our honeymoon... seriously its an amazing addon
Here is a script for it that you can import that will show you your barrier duration and size

dGJvdaGAqIwpisVgK0mfQmxeLzRIpbs5BsQDIs7LSBrTFjQFIiggL63cUnLyWsWWLipwQCkquoMQCCqcluihMIfRGL R0dfQ6PqltL65ICzQMkkMSuMoWffkDAu9mf66iSrKyCiLnRQ2oI0jbHPPOptj9DqQ2gO(ls1OvjJhr1LekUfs6AsY5 LqJcevNtQ6MGiwpXiKleImW3VPZjdIUqorgptk90f3pn621ctc37(BHwe2e2eJWHW28nY0b12gkjmAjsxERCbiXbMJ WUWjSIrSpX(e7TyFIDuSpXof7taHnEQ0XuKXjheN)bcJjjKCs()KdefQvv90UVHNJJ93v9ZE9PoNcbl3QvFfJqdbi0 DczxdcZglEsmI9jeV4(PvUqKzxUVcima9mj5trfjKi50jYCGIesKC6zJfxrctedDbImqrcZglUq8I7Nw5crMD5(kmB S40dL81acRWpp3GCOftcAqMqIStQNbcneGGWpX5K6mzfjGWbZgF4ewXi2POuxbdBpRN2WV(jmnA6tTAuaHzclml3Qv FtI9jSij)FYbIc16(5iTQX(57bdBpN6tDwj8Y5wVaIc8D1SVVgU6bpwBp(0N6KMWtW0eJWnCCXi0cXbWfJaciGWab4 WZUIeoe2MVihsDXExlCiSnFvKWHW28n2MvxicfeM1lxi(JBYcx3kpKzkwYfAiwZGzfMaMoOM0GWHW28LK)p5aXwlK3 fY0t8MlmUyPWiekjsa(VOW4ILcJqGtoGyDHXZpbH8Mq8I7Nw5crMD5(k0CkDzefA2p4PD9TDnTA7j8uFQvJcHoVbUe fyy4xf847EK2d22EQp1zLWgpv6ykY4Kdegts4qyB(cro5aX2lGqJyeIxC)0kxiYSl3xHqKb((nDozq0fYjY4zsPNU4 (Pr3UwaHKk2302waja

Also here is my one that appears underneath it for easy tracking of Shield Block uptime so you know exactly if you need to barrier or not

dGJrdaGAvj16vczBanturZfvy2kCtvj6Bs0orP9s2TuTFr4NiOHHQ(nvUnQ0GfPgUi6XIQtPkHJb44kHAHIYHP0Ivf lxLhsvYtHwMeEUKUSWurQjlLPd6IkbNMINPKUok2is8jvPAZQQTJqoPs00uQptv8DvPmkvj5ViQrRiJhH6suL6wiY1 OQoVizCkQZHKEncSaeTqJWLDyCFBEWXYCxVYHPte56KjgnY8LcRcVcQfc5kSjSjAHog4W0dLj8XDT4YS5e0oxsHzht DkAjs)YaAhcZDd3jAXciwaXwiwaXUkwaXUflGGcBMAYHnfDqmuO3vHWZ4XtCIwOLb6YhUEOhHFMXOMB7ktitpik6qH wgOtO7ToH9rkLjKPgK7wUHYe2TCdH4KjgTePZgUCce2TCdYUKXzHUt430BV6DVRV)cHDl3OkAXcieNmXOLiDM9otCc kKPgKz6gOYeu4J98YnCNOf7wuk9bb53LBEqaQBW5z9j5VkOWMPMCytrhed5m(qHExfMIW)VgqrH08Sp)8AbWk4k4Ua auFsBFHdNTjAHNBeIwixMb0iAbfuqHet4)xdOOqY3N6Crb4EDLAHp1nv9jT3cTJKtwrzMhaCZxwWxoxYVb36tYFvyf AZjOQhHpURfNYe(4UwCl08ecXfZyVirAVgHTl8cpgxNovYqOL5Sp2t4J7AXHMffITOuOj31jxnTqiNlqHwimigYCHq VmdNWh31IJW)VgqXwk81mvO5NsiNlqHwOPjeNmXOLiD2WLtGW3mn4KOaccc4dUcuSodaYZV1N02x4J7AXTSxdOyPkS ZWL(mE8exvSacNcJNjOO4x6Vb5lak9PoxccaQpP9SGcTIwiozIrlr6m7DM4eUSdJ7BZdowM76vomDIixNmXOrMVuqH ejwGnpVGsa