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  1. #1

    Who came up with this jerry mandered pvp weapon itemization

    Tier 1 weapons: nerfed 13 item levels. No pvp power itemization as compensation

    Tier 2 weapons: No pvp power itemization, but still the same ilvl. Instead of being 13 ilvls higher than T1, now 26 item levels higher. Ironically I didn't get a T2 weapon this season, but did in season 10. Of course I vendor trashed my T2 weapon from season 10, apparantly I'm worse off in this new biased system.

    PvE weapons stay the same. As if legendaries/gurth weren't good enough in pvp already. We needed to nerf T1 weapons to make sure noob vs noob in pvp is as pve biased as ever.

  2. #2
    Protip, everything in 5.0.4 is balanced around MoP and level 90. Just have to roll with it for a month.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ofmanv View Post
    Of course I vendor trashed my T2 weapon from season 10
    yeah, of course man, who stocks their weapons anyway.

    what pvp are you talking about by the way? the very nicely balanced rrgular battlegrounds that everyone enters with same perfect gear? stop this pve gear in pvp whining, please.

  4. #4
    It is pretty silly.

    It's not even a decision on whether to use PVE or PVP weapons anymore. PVE ones are way better. Hell even the LFR shit is better than T1.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Emophia View Post
    It is pretty silly.

    It's not even a decision on whether to use PVE or PVP weapons anymore. PVE ones are way better. Hell even the LFR shit is better than T1.
    Use whatever you want until MoP , PVP is going to be far from balanced until it hits anyways, PVP power on weapons wouldn't solve that right now either way.

  6. #6
    The level 90 pvp weapons do have pvp power on them. Too bad even with that pvp power, the tier 1 level 90 pvp weapons barely compete with lfr wearpons.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    The level 90 pvp weapons do have pvp power on them. Too bad even with that pvp power, the tier 1 level 90 pvp weapons barely compete with lfr wearpons.
    So you are saying even in MoP getting a pve raid weapon is going to be the better choice over pvp weapons? Please confirm so I can avoid buying the xpac. Thanks.

  8. #8
    Legendary! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koraman View Post
    So you are saying even in MoP getting a pve raid weapon is going to be the better choice over pvp weapons? Please confirm so I can avoid buying the xpac. Thanks.
    Why not just not buy it, anyway? You obviously have a stick up your bum about some things.
    Bacon is the thing pigs give you when you're good.

  9. #9
    Elemental Lord Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koraman View Post
    So you are saying even in MoP getting a pve raid weapon is going to be the better choice over pvp weapons? Please confirm so I can avoid buying the xpac. Thanks.
    Guess it depends on how much PVP power and % damage increase that gives versus the weapon damage increase of the PVE weapon. Which isn't really set right now. I'll try and look it up.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Looked it up. (Turns out this weapon is off the beginning bosses, which threw me at first since it has a raid finder version on WoW Head)

    PvP Power 265 = 1% Damage increase.

    S12 T1 15,150 top end, 2235 pvp power
    S12 T2 18,253 , 2235 pvp power
    Starshatter RF 16021 top end
    Starshatter N 18084
    Starshatter H 20413

    2235 /265 = 8.433, so PvP Weapons give 8.4% more damage. Well at least according to WoW Head.

    Heroic vs T2
    20413/18253 = 1.118 ~ 12% weapon damage, - 8.4% from PvPP, = 3.4% damage increase on Weapon Damage based abilities.
    Not going to take the time to do the AP math for AP based abilites, but figure at least a 7% damage loss for PVE weapons over PvP

    T2 is better then normal. Pracitcally the same damage range, no pvp power.

    Normal vs T1
    18084/15150 = 1.19, ~19% weapon damage increase, -8.4% for PvP Power, and you get 10.9% more weapon damage with normal Raid weapon over T1 pvp.

    RF vs T1.
    16021/15150 = 1.057, ~5% more damage, giving the PVP power weapon 2.65% more damage on weapon damage based attacks.

    So as a Warrior with almost all my attacks being weapon based (Dragon Roar and Execute?), It looks like T2 is probably = to Heroic, T1 is worse then Normal, T1 is better then raid finder, but not so much that getting raid finder week 1 if possible isnt your best bet.

    This is working off WoW Head, with Starshatter RF being 476 ilvl, N 489, H502, T1 470, T2 490.

    T1 seems really off being below the ilvl of RF at 470. It should be at most 13 below the T2 as has been the case all these years, and the T2 is already nerfed down below the Heroic now too, so hopefully T1 gets buffed to at least 477, or for competitions sake 484. Going from T1 to T2 pvp is a 20% damage increase for a warrior on almost every ability, thats retarded. T2 teams should stomp T1.

    Disclaimer: I was not a Math major, and WoW Head could be full of shit.

    IMO you should raid for an edge as a warrior. Normal raid weapons look to be right between T1 and T2 pvp.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Scratch that, found the final boss weapon, 2h Axe with high ilevels. Shin'ka, Execution of Dominion, 483 rf, 496 N, 509 Heroic.
    Ill work that up. That looks like T1 might be useless.


    17101 RF, 19303 N, 21788H
    15150 T1, 18253 T2,

    21788/18253 = 1.19, 19% damage increase, -8.4% for PvPP = 10.9% more weapon damage, + it has a socket. Gemming PVP power, +1%, so 11.9% more damage.
    19303/18253 = 1.05, 5% damage increase, 2.6% damage increase on T2, T2 is still king over Normal. 3.6% with gem.
    19303/15150 = 1.27!, 27% damage increase, -8.4% PVPP, 19% damage increase!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! N vs T1!!!!!! 20% WITH Gem!
    17101/15150 = 1.128!, ~13% damage increase, -8.4% PVPP, 4.47% more weapon damage vs T1, 5.47% with gem! that makes it an iffy toss up. Id go with LFR.
    21788/15150 = 1.438!, ~44% damage increase, -8.4% PvPP, = 35% DAMAGE INCREASE. 36% with Gem.
    So yeah if you can get this off what I am guessing is the last boss in the raid finder of the 2nd instance, LFR is slightly better then T1 for a warrior, depends on how many weapon damage vs ap based abilities you have on your class. So yeah raid finder weapon better then T1!!!
    Normal version is almost equal to T2!
    Heroic Version is about 11% better then T2.

    But here is the real kicker. A heroic PVE player with this Axe would have a 35% damage advantage on all weapon damage based attacks over a pvp player with T1. So PvPP does nothing to stop a PVE player from a having a HUGE advantage over a PVP player unless that pvp player is T2, and even then its a small advantage. Of course not many Heroic Shin'ka's will be out in the world, but dayum. Or to picture it better, say with T1 a warrior crits MS on you for 50k, with Heroic S, it would be 67.5K. Just the weapon changed out!

    Oh and for those saying think of the defensive resilience, yeah WowHead puts that at 2.49%/2.02% for T2/T1. Not even a worthy consideration.

    I think T2 needs to be buffed to 496, and T1 to 483 or 490 for PVP weapons to truly be superior to PVE, or they up the PVP power to about 35%.
    Last edited by Korgoth; 2012-08-30 at 12:18 AM.
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  10. #10
    Conquest point weapons need to be better in pvp than the BiS heroic weapon or this whole pvp power thing was a waste of time.

  11. #11
    It's difficult to not resub but threads like this help keep me strong.

  12. #12
    Good thing a very very small percent will ever see the heroic weapon.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Gsara View Post
    Good thing a very very small percent will ever see the heroic weapon.
    Kinda like the legendary daggers? /eyeroll

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by EDGrenade View Post
    It's difficult to not resub but threads like this help keep me strong.
    lol, same here, same here

    BiS PvE weapons will always be better than PvP weapons, they can't fix that because there's not much to fix, raids are considered the top of the game so they have to have the best items.
    Last edited by mmoc64f2dc20bc; 2012-08-30 at 05:26 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    Kinda like the legendary daggers? /eyeroll
    Actually yeah he is right....The daggers were something farmed in both normal and H so eventually you would see more people with them, the longer DS is out the more rogues get the daggers from just farming, H weapons only drop and come from only H raids... So yeah there is actually quite a difference with RNG and having to go to H raids...
    Last edited by Landin55; 2012-08-30 at 05:27 AM.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Guess it depends on how much PVP power and % damage increase that gives versus the weapon damage increase of the PVE weapon. Which isn't really set right now. I'll try and look it up.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Looked it up. (Turns out this weapon is off the beginning bosses, which threw me at first since it has a raid finder version on WoW Head)

    PvP Power 265 = 1% Damage increase.

    S12 T1 15,150 top end, 2235 pvp power
    S12 T2 18,253 , 2235 pvp power
    Starshatter RF 16021 top end
    Starshatter N 18084
    Starshatter H 20413

    2235 /265 = 8.433, so PvP Weapons give 8.4% more damage. Well at least according to WoW Head.

    Heroic vs T2
    20413/18253 = 1.118 ~ 12% weapon damage, - 8.4% from PvPP, = 3.4% damage increase on Weapon Damage based abilities.
    Not going to take the time to do the AP math for AP based abilites, but figure at least a 7% damage loss for PVE weapons over PvP

    T2 is better then normal. Pracitcally the same damage range, no pvp power.

    Normal vs T1
    18084/15150 = 1.19, ~19% weapon damage increase, -8.4% for PvP Power, and you get 10.9% more weapon damage with normal Raid weapon over T1 pvp.

    RF vs T1.
    16021/15150 = 1.057, ~5% more damage, giving the PVP power weapon 2.65% more damage on weapon damage based attacks.

    So as a Warrior with almost all my attacks being weapon based (Dragon Roar and Execute?), It looks like T2 is probably = to Heroic, T1 is worse then Normal, T1 is better then raid finder, but not so much that getting raid finder week 1 if possible isnt your best bet.

    This is working off WoW Head, with Starshatter RF being 476 ilvl, N 489, H502, T1 470, T2 490.

    T1 seems really off being below the ilvl of RF at 470. It should be at most 13 below the T2 as has been the case all these years, and the T2 is already nerfed down below the Heroic now too, so hopefully T1 gets buffed to at least 477, or for competitions sake 484. Going from T1 to T2 pvp is a 20% damage increase for a warrior on almost every ability, thats retarded. T2 teams should stomp T1.

    Disclaimer: I was not a Math major, and WoW Head could be full of shit.

    IMO you should raid for an edge as a warrior. Normal raid weapons look to be right between T1 and T2 pvp.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Scratch that, found the final boss weapon, 2h Axe with high ilevels. Shin'ka, Execution of Dominion, 483 rf, 496 N, 509 Heroic.
    Ill work that up. That looks like T1 might be useless.


    17101 RF, 19303 N, 21788H
    15150 T1, 18253 T2,

    21788/18253 = 1.19, 19% damage increase, -8.4% for PvPP = 10.9% more weapon damage, + it has a socket. Gemming PVP power, +1%, so 11.9% more damage.
    19303/18253 = 1.05, 5% damage increase, 2.6% damage increase on T2, T2 is still king over Normal. 3.6% with gem.
    19303/15150 = 1.27!, 27% damage increase, -8.4% PVPP, 19% damage increase!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! N vs T1!!!!!! 20% WITH Gem!
    17101/15150 = 1.128!, ~13% damage increase, -8.4% PVPP, 4.47% more weapon damage vs T1, 5.47% with gem! that makes it an iffy toss up. Id go with LFR.
    21788/15150 = 1.438!, ~44% damage increase, -8.4% PvPP, = 35% DAMAGE INCREASE. 36% with Gem.
    So yeah if you can get this off what I am guessing is the last boss in the raid finder of the 2nd instance, LFR is slightly better then T1 for a warrior, depends on how many weapon damage vs ap based abilities you have on your class. So yeah raid finder weapon better then T1!!!
    Normal version is almost equal to T2!
    Heroic Version is about 11% better then T2.

    But here is the real kicker. A heroic PVE player with this Axe would have a 35% damage advantage on all weapon damage based attacks over a pvp player with T1. So PvPP does nothing to stop a PVE player from a having a HUGE advantage over a PVP player unless that pvp player is T2, and even then its a small advantage. Of course not many Heroic Shin'ka's will be out in the world, but dayum. Or to picture it better, say with T1 a warrior crits MS on you for 50k, with Heroic S, it would be 67.5K. Just the weapon changed out!

    Oh and for those saying think of the defensive resilience, yeah WowHead puts that at 2.49%/2.02% for T2/T1. Not even a worthy consideration.

    I think T2 needs to be buffed to 496, and T1 to 483 or 490 for PVP weapons to truly be superior to PVE, or they up the PVP power to about 35%.
    you need to post this on wow's official forums-maybe it would make blizz get off there asses and actually try to balance pvp a little.if your math is right,blizz just spit in the face of every pvper in wow.hell blizz will not even update the trinkets/gear from the npcs in AV that will soon be 30 levels outdated,really wtf is that.that just shows the non dumb asses just how far/bad wow has become.

  17. #17
    There's an item recovery thing on battle.net isn't there? Go ask for your vendored season10 weapon back.

  18. #18
    Field Marshal johnrockks's Avatar
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    Has anyone posted this on the official forums? If not get on it, and if so link please!

  19. #19
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrImmortal View Post
    There's an item recovery thing on battle.net isn't there? Go ask for your vendored season10 weapon back.
    There is a time limit. This season has gone on so long he is probably past it.

  20. #20
    Bad math.

    1. Use the average weapon damage instead of the top-end
    2. Don't discount AP, see damage it adds (and multiplied by PVPP)
    3. Don't discount resilience, especially comparing how much two fully S12 geared people do to each other

    Also, the Shin'ka socket is for a 500 Strength gem. We'll see how common those are. :x

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