[Prot] "Paladins are in a good place and serving as our target."

[Farabee]

From the beta forums...quoth GC:

As Reltus quotes, we were worried about DK spike damage. With this change we feel that all of the tanks are pretty close in terms of surviving spikes, but at the moment DKs and Brewmasters require too little healing and warriors and druids require too much healing. Paladins are in a good place and serving as our target. Our solution to the rage tanks is probably going to be to give them more rage to use their defenses more. We haven't decided what to do with DK and monks yet. We're not considering major mechanics changes -- just numbers adjustments.

On the one hand, I'm relieved that this time around other tanks are going to be balanced around our class, so we don't get another situation where DKs (and brewmasters) are simply ridiculous and the best option every time. Makes me feel a lot more secure in my decision to stick with my prot pally, my main since late BC.

On the other hand, we still have some threat issues on live. Our AOE threat is really bad, but I understand that it's currently balanced around having Light's Hammer, which we don't get until 90 (and really that's the only option for Prot) so I'll let it slide. CS is still fairly weak and could use some tuning. Everything else is fine, the only nice thing to have would be Holy Wrath generating HP and glyphed Consecrate being removed from the GCD due to the targeting requirement, but I guess I can live without those.

Then again, this is GC we're talking about and we've been burned in the past, so I'll continue to remain skeptical until I start tanking Mogu'shan. Anyone else think that he'll stay true to his word this time?

[Holtzmann]

Wasn't he talking about survivability? So Paladins are good in terms of taking blows, even if they still need work when it comes to threat. Makes sense to me.

[Deleted]

i dont know but for myself, im going to go for retribution with MOP as i dont like the new protection changes.
Mostly the new active mitigation, and the low dmg, coupled with the vengance buff, that u cant even lvl up as protection anymore, even when gliped word of glory deals a somewhat good damage.
And hell, the SOTR 100% crit chance wass AWESOME , gona miss it alot :S

[IIamaKing]

I dropped my pally of 5 years after these changes, Sad that they want us to be the "target" for other tanking classes.

[underdogba]

The fundamental apples-to-oranges problem that they are never ever going to solve is the discrepancy between designing the encounters around threatening the tanks via attacks that resolve through the combat table versus attacks that do not resolve through the combat table.

Even without full-CTC, shield tanks are still better at smoother damage input via combat table resolution. We saw this at its height in recent history with FL 25 hardmodes, which were nearly all impossible to DK tank while the content was current.

In DS, they very consciously moved the threatening tank damage to sources that were outside of the combat table resolution mechanics, and voila, suddenly DKs became mandatory on almost every hardmode fight for hardcore progression.

[Kebren]

I'm pretty happy with how Paladin tanking feels. The rotation is smooth, we have some actual decent choices for Holy Power now and I don't feel particularly squishy. AoE is a bit lacking, but probably because Hammer of the Righteous is on a 4.5 second CD now instead of 3 seconds. Not to mention Seal of Righteousness hits like a wet noodle. At the end of the day AoE damage isn't hugely important though.

I also agree with GC on tank balance. I feel like its DK > Pally > Warrior = Druid. DKs feel way too strong in terms of survivability and damage output. Warriors/Druids feel pretty meh in general. The new Rage mechanic feels very clunky and I don't enjoy tanking with it.

If they give us a slight buff to AoE damage then I think we'll be in a good place. Would actually be nice if we got an AoE finish to replace our losing Inquisition.

[UnderworldSoup]

AoE is a bit lacking, but probably because Hammer of the Righteous is on a 4.5 second CD now instead of 3 seconds.

I think that may be the main reason why AoE threat feels clunky; we're used to using Hammer of the Righteous much more often to maintain the aggro, and in combination with Inquisition it was quite effective.

Would actually be nice if we got an AoE finish to replace our losing Inquisition.

Agreed. It feels awkward to have nothing definite to spend Holy Power on in an AoE situation. Sure we have our other survivability moves to focus on and that's what I use, but they make no real impact on the aggro or health of the group I'm tanking while Shield of the Righteous does in solo target.

[learntotank]

On the one hand, I'm relieved that this time around other tanks are going to be balanced around our class, so we don't get another situation where DKs (and brewmasters) are simply ridiculous and the best option every time. Makes me feel a lot more secure in my decision to stick with my prot pally, my main since late BC.

Paladin's had very few fights this expansion/Wrath where they didn't shine or weren't particularly good, and many fights where they were flat out the best, especially during Firelands.

On the other hand, we still have some threat issues on live. Our AOE threat is really bad,

The only time you should have threat issues on lives is if you are doing a 5-man in top end gear and the DPS in the group have equivalent gear. You start taking so little damage that your Vengeance doesn't build up fast enough and you can't establish threat. In 25s and 10s it is a non-issue because Vengeance builds up much faster.

but I understand that it's currently balanced around having Light's Hammer, which we don't get until 90 (and really that's the only option for Prot) so I'll let it slide. CS is still fairly weak and could use some tuning.

None of the tank classes "threat" is based around a level 90 talent. That would make that talent mandatory and not an option. If you need to rely on Light's Hammer to hold/maintain aggro there are other issues.
As far as CS it shouldn't be too strong as it generates Holy Power. Our single target damage is fine in a raiding setting.

Everything else is fine, the only nice thing to have would be Holy Wrath generating HP and glyphed Consecrate being removed from the GCD due to the targeting requirement, but I guess I can live without those.

Having Holy Wrath generating HP, while nice, would be kind of ridiculous.

Then again, this is GC we're talking about and we've been burned in the past, so I'll continue to remain skeptical until I start tanking Mogu'shan. Anyone else think that he'll stay true to his word this time?

Paladins are fine on live and at 90 on Beta.

[Seani]

I'm pretty happy with how Paladin tanking feels. The rotation is smooth, we have some actual decent choices for Holy Power now and I don't feel particularly squishy. AoE is a bit lacking, but probably because Hammer of the Righteous is on a 4.5 second CD now instead of 3 seconds. Not to mention Seal of Righteousness hits like a wet noodle. At the end of the day AoE damage isn't hugely important though.

I also agree with GC on tank balance. I feel like its DK > Pally > Warrior = Druid. DKs feel way too strong in terms of survivability and damage output. Warriors/Druids feel pretty meh in general. The new Rage mechanic feels very clunky and I don't enjoy tanking with it.

If they give us a slight buff to AoE damage then I think we'll be in a good place. Would actually be nice if we got an AoE finish to replace our losing Inquisition.

We do have an aoe threat ability generated by holy power, its called Word of Glory.

[Sunnydee]

Would actually be nice if we got an AoE finish to replace our losing Inquisition.

glyph exo?

[Ryuji]

glyph exo?

Exorcism is Ret only.

[learntotank]

We do have an aoe threat ability generated by holy power, its called Word of Glory.

WoG hasn't generated threat in a while.