WoW questing pattern vs. GW2 Heart Quest pattern

[Tekkommo]

I realised this after doing my first heart 'quest', it's just the same as questing, the only difference being you don't have to pick it up and hand it in.

It's not a bad thing, but it's rather annoying when you get gw2 fanbois going on about how revolutionary it is.

[Collected]

And it came to my realization that the Heart quests in GW2 are begginning to blur into the same repetitive actions as the WoW quests are. I've completed the entire Asura starting zone (1-15 zone), and I can only assume that the Heart quests wont be able to vary much further from the pattern they already have, given that you can right click an object, kill adds, or revive NPCs. I know, you can do whatever mix of things you want to in the Hearts, but their still pretty repetitive in my mind.

I think the very nature of an MMO that requires you to gain experience to progress through the levels will require some form of repetition. That's the very nature of gaining experience. The more you do something, the more experience you get.

Nothing for me will be as repetitive as having to kill 40 mobs to get 30 items to drop. Being at the mercy of RNG. Having to grind out mobs. What GW2 does seem to do well is make this task as painless as possible. You don't have to get item drops from mobs (from what i've seen) so you always feel your efforts are being rewarded rather than held back by cruel RNG. And quite often an event is happening local to the heart quest that also contributes to both.. so you're doing an event, getting the benefit from that.. and also working towards your heart quest. So you kill two birds with one stone and any repetition is broken up by the event. You also never feel like you're being told where to go and when. I can literally decide where I'm going to go next and there will always be something for me to do at the end of what decision.

And you can get XP other ways too, exploring, ticking off vistas, ticking off check points, crafting, personal story. So I never really feel like i'm stuck in a grind hell where I think "Oh god.. not another quest" or "Come on.. drop my damn item" after every mob kill.. or having to complete 110 quests before I move onto another zone.

It perhaps also helps that I don't play in large doses either. I typically play for a max of 2-3 hours before I go do something else. So that probably helps also.

[Deleted]

heh, yea.

How long is the village gone? Until you take it back. Usually when npcs take over a city, there's a camp or something of friendly npcs making plans to take it back. If you don't help them... it remains a destroyed village under control of evil npcs and they start to fortify it even and launch attacks further.
At least this is what I know. Currently there's a lot of people still around in the lower level zones however, so the events are pushed back in their chain very fast, so you can't see how they would progress. Once people get to max level and there will be a more even spread of players across zones we'll know for sure exactly how it goes. However this is what I know. Usually npcs can't take the towns back alone. And events scale in strengh and number as more people are in a zone.

This is why in the low level zones when the game launched some events were triggering every 15 min, there were hundreads of people there! But now that people moved on to other zones, they trigger slower and the mobs actually push more.

Ah yes, I saw in one of TotalBiscuit's beta videos the infamous Weapon Rack scaling in level as more players got to the event :P Then the whole thing should probably normalize in about 2-3 weeks when people spread out.

[Deleted]

Higher level zones have more content than lower level zones? Or is it just easier to play since you're mostly geared up? Another friend of mine said he went back to a noobish zone and got his face smacked by 1 mob (he didn't notice he scaled down to that level), and said anything can kill you if you're not careful.

I have no doubts they will add more of those choices / polish the whole thing as time passes. It has a lot of potential. But I'm not familiar with how SW:ToR worked in that regard o_O

I don't know if higher level zones have more content, I know that the lower level zones are hard even at higher level due to scailing.

The difference is that, because you get better gear and those... talents, abilities, I don't even know how they're called, props... anyway, because of those it feels slightly easier then when you were first there, while still competitive for you so to say. But yes, if you're not careful everything can kill you, however if you're good at dodging and moving around you can live.

Ah, and in regards to SW:ToR, some choices don't truly have high effects, but you can see some consequences of your decision in the world, like random npcs attacking you, the police coming after you, it's a matter of more intertwining between the personal story and the world. In GW2 it feels a bit detached in a way. I'm sure different people see it different, but that's my view.

[Deleted]

I think the very nature of an MMO that requires you to gain experience to progress through the levels will require some form of repetition. That's the very nature of gaining experience. The more you do something, the more experience you get.

Nothing for me will be as repetitive as having to kill 40 mobs to get 30 items to drop. Being at the mercy of RNG. Having to grind out mobs. What GW2 does seem to do well is make this task as painless as possible. You don't have to get item drops from mobs (from what i've seen) so you always feel your efforts are being rewarded rather than held back by cruel RNG. And quite often an event is happening local to the heart quest that also contributes to both.. so you're doing an event, getting the benefit from that.. and also working towards your heart quest. So you kill two birds with one stone and any repetition is broken up by the event. You also never feel like you're being told where to go and when. I can literally decide where I'm going to go next and there will always be something for me to do at the end of what decision.

And you can get XP other ways too, exploring, ticking off vistas, ticking off check points, crafting, personal story. So I never really feel like i'm stuck in a grind hell where I think "Oh god.. not another quest" or "Come on.. drop my damn item" after every mob kill.. or having to complete 110 quests before I move onto another zone.

It perhaps also helps that I don't play in large doses either. I typically play for a max of 2-3 hours before I go do something else. So that probably helps also.

Not all bears have asses mind you. :P

[daslops]

Heart is enjoyable because if u want to just kill things you'll get the quest done you don't need to be going around grabbing supplies off the ground.

[Deleted]

Even though I haven't played GW2, I think the phasing system is a bit better than dynamic events, since you actually see some meaningful change. If either Blizzard or ArenaNet would combine both systems into one, I think it would be pretty f***ing awesome.

True, I agree with this, but there's a lot of room for mistake here, so whomever takes up the task needs to be very careful.

[Deleted]

I don't know if higher level zones have more content, I know that the lower level zones are hard even at higher level due to scailing.

The difference is that, because you get better gear and those... talents, abilities, I don't even know how they're called, props... anyway, because of those it feels slightly easier then when you were first there, while still competitive for you so to say. But yes, if you're not careful everything can kill you, however if you're good at dodging and moving around you can live.

Ah, and in regards to SW:ToR, some choices don't truly have high effects, but you can see some consequences of your decision in the world, like random npcs attacking you, the police coming after you, it's a matter of more intertwining between the personal story and the world. In GW2 it feels a bit detached in a way. I'm sure different people see it different, but that's my view.

Yeah, that sounds pretty good about SW:ToR. The remarks I've heard all centered around the notion that 'personal story' is just a book that you read while you play where it says something about you.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Not all bears have asses mind you. :P

And not all zevras have hooves...I CAN SEE 4 OF THEM, WHY can't I take at least ONE? D:...hah.

[Collected]

I realised this after doing my first heart 'quest', it's just the same as questing, the only difference being you don't have to pick it up and hand it in.

It's not a bad thing, but it's rather annoying when you get gw2 fanbois going on about how revolutionary it is.

It's more evolution than revolution. One big difference (quite sure you know this) is if you're taking part in an event that is local to your heart quest, quite often that event will contribute to the heart. So for example if i'm feeding animals in a farm, and that farm is attacked by mobs.. chances are by killing those mobs that are attacking the farm, that will also complete the heart quest too. So you feel like your efforts and time are well rewarded. And you're also not at the mercy of RNG with mob drops.. always a good thing.

[Deleted]

True, I agree with this, but there's a lot of room for mistake here, so whomever takes up the task needs to be very careful.

If one of them f**ks up, the other is probably going to pull it off. But I have to say I find it amusing that people are usually pitching WoW and GW2 as direct rivals, simply because they don't really fall into the same category - one is subscription based, the other BTP. I consider them 'rivals' only because imo they currently the best there is, each in it's category. To me, it's more about the limit of game design and better tech. GW2's combat system with dodging and everything blows WoW away.

---------- Post added 2012-09-02 at 05:08 PM ----------

And not all zevras have hooves...I CAN SEE 4 OF THEM, WHY can't I take at least ONE? D:...hah.

Dear god, yes... exactly that... One-legged Zhevras and blind Raptors always amazed me.

---------- Post added 2012-09-02 at 05:17 PM ----------

Heart is enjoyable because if u want to just kill things you'll get the quest done you don't need to be going around grabbing supplies off the ground.

That's like the mobs drop the same 'quest items' that are also all over the place on the ground or are those 2 different quest objectives ('kill or collect' instead of 'kill to collect') and you get to choose one?

[Zdrasti]

The GW2 questing pattern feels more natural. You see something bad happening and you participate. Sure you never met the guy who gives you the quest, but think about it for a minute. If a town is under attack, does it make sense for you to first waltz in and talk to the mayor before helping out?

The only downside I guess is that content repeats in GW2. However, each time it repeats what you do matters. So people around the events flock to them to participate. In wow you are lucky to ever have someone interact with you beyond competing with you for resources or mob tags.

While this might feel like the same thing with a new coat of paint on it, the differences in player behavior are profound.

[Deleted]

The GW2 questing pattern feels more natural. You see something bad happening and you participate. Sure you never met the guy who gives you the quest, but think about it for a minute. If a town is under attack, does it make sense for you to first waltz in and talk to the mayor before helping out?

The only downside I guess is that content repeats in GW2. However, each time it repeats what you do matters. So people around the events flock to them to participate. In wow you are lucky to ever have someone interact with you beyond competing with you for resources or mob tags.

While this might feel like the same thing with a new coat of paint on it, the differences in player behavior are profound.

That would be a welcomed change. You also get amazing player interaction in WoW with those random duel 'invitations'.. I understand the idea behind event scaling in 'power' with more players, but I can't really see why would ArenaNet also make them appear/repeat faster if there are more players? The event happening all over again only 2 hours later seems off to me. They could've made it have a fixed cooldown of at least 6 hours.

[Alilei32]

If they didnt have 300% bonus exp when questing in WoW I would have never made more than 1 alt. The quests were all just boring as hell. Kill this loot that. Also your quest route was always the same it never changed. 1-58 in vanilla zones, 60-70 in TBC, 70-80 in Wrath, 80-85 in Cata. That will never change you will do the same quests for every alt you make. Since the massive majority of WoW players arent hardcore raiders I just assume that people make lots of alts so I dont understand how you can do the same grind for each one without using RAF. At least in GW2 you can go different routes by scaling down and doing other race's quest zones. Also who cares if the quests dont have any story behind them the goal is hitting max level I dont care why this person wants me to go kill something I just do what needs to be done and move on.

[Herecius]

The best way of doing hearts is to do events in the area around them. Generally, doing events works towards completion of the heart, and it completely removes the any possibility of getting bored, at least for me.

Level 79 and loving the game so far. Eager to push on into Orr and begin slowly, slowly working towards a legendary weapon... that's where the real grind begins, and I'm eager to gird myself and start it.

---------- Post added 2012-09-02 at 08:30 AM ----------

That would be a welcomed change. You also get amazing player interaction in WoW with those random duel 'invitations'.. I understand the idea behind event scaling in 'power' with more players, but I can't really see why would ArenaNet also make them appear/repeat faster if there are more players? The event happening all over again only 2 hours later seems off to me. They could've made it have a fixed cooldown of at least 6 hours.

The problem with this is just the amount of content it requires them to actually produce. They've gone on record stating (and take it for what you will) that they've had to make over three times as many events as they would have had to make quests if it was a static MMO questing model of progress, simply because of their not-always-there nature. They needed to make sure that events happen often enough that a zone feels alive and active.

If there was a super long cooldown on events, then they would have to make such a ridiculously large number of them for a zone to ever feel 'alive' like that, that it would just be totally impractical, at least in a development perspective.

[Deleted]

The best way of doing hearts is to do events in the area around them. Generally, doing events works towards completion of the heart, and it completely removes the any possibility of getting bored, at least for me.

Level 79 and loving the game so far. Eager to push on into Orr and begin slowly, slowly working towards a legendary weapon... that's where the real grind begins, and I'm eager to gird myself and start it.

---------- Post added 2012-09-02 at 08:30 AM ----------



The problem with this is just the amount of content it requires them to actually produce. They've gone on record stating (and take it for what you will) that they've had to make over three times as many events as they would have had to make quests if it was a static MMO questing model of progress, simply because of their not-always-there nature. They needed to make sure that events happen often enough that a zone feels alive and active.

If there was a super long cooldown on events, then they would have to make such a ridiculously large number of them for a zone to ever feel 'alive' like that, that it would just be totally impractical, at least in a development perspective.

Hmmm, you have a very good point actually. Coding something like that must've been horrendous.

But I do believe the 3x bit, what they currently have in the game is supposedly a huge amount of stuff going on, at least what I heard from players close to me. Goddamn I need to get a better computer finally...

[Conscious]

GW2 Offers flexibility, and options as to how the questing is done.

WoW offers a linear, gated, and questionably grindier path.

To each his own I suppose.

[Queen of Hamsters]

GW2 Offers flexibility, and options as to how the questing is done.

WoW offers a linear, gated, and questionably grindier path.

To each his own I suppose.

Well obviously to each his own, but some people are calling GW2 grindy as well. I don't think they're making this up. And the options all can become repetitive, especially when mechanics are similar or they repeat over and over whilst you're in the same zone and area.

Everything with repetition in it, can feel grindy. GW2 ain't no exception here. I prefer storylines and proper questing (in WoW you don't go back and repeat a storyline or quest, if it's done it's done unless a daily) by far I've come to realize.

[melodramocracy]

I actually think WoW quests tell a better story arc than the ones in GW2 do. The hearts and events around them are small, isolated happenings, where in WoW the story now tends to be delivered across that entire zone (Silverpine forest is a perfect example of this). On the other hand, once you've done a WoW quest, you've done it, and there's almost no variance in the next time you go through.

The hearts are there for a few things really... to aid in map completion, learn a little bit about the surrounding de's, and to unlock the karma goods that NPC will sell.. because by doing the de's around it, you will almost always get close to full completion of that heart anyhow. Most hearts have multiple options for completion, it's rarely ever just "I only accept bear asses".

You're not going to ever see PvE content in an MMO where the world truly and permanently changes. Other people who have yet to experience the content YOU have, need their shot too.

Edit: and yes, the lack of direction can make some players feel a bit lost in this game, because you can really go anywhere and do (or try) anything in terms of quests. I dunno, I sort of prefer deciding where to go rather than being told where.

[GG4Eva]

For me, personally, I love doing the hearts more than than WOW's questing. Been playing WOW for so long that I get bored while questing now. GW2's hearts/DEs are masking the image of actually quests, but I prefer to just walk into any area and have stuff to do or just find something pop up. I'm enjoying GW2 a lot and its questing just seems much better for me. Plus I love my personal story!

Well obviously to each his own, but some people are calling GW2 grindy as well. I don't think they're making this up. And the options all can become repetitive, especially when mechanics are similar or they repeat over and over whilst you're in the same zone and area.

Everything with repetition in it, can feel grindy. GW2 ain't no exception here. I prefer storylines and proper questing (in WoW you don't go back and repeat a storyline or quest, if it's done it's done unless a daily) by far I've come to realize.

I don't recall ever going back anywhere in GW2 to repeat a storyline or quest unless its a DE (lvl 34). For your personal story and the hearts, once you finish them, they are done. You can't open it back up. Like WOW has repeated dailies, GW2 has DEs, except DEs pop up randomly and there are different ones per area. Plus you have a choice to even go and participate in the DE or just move on.

Also I think ALL MMO games have some repetitiveness to it. It's just a matter of what you prefer. For GW2, I like to clear the whole zone and do all the hearts, vistas, point of interests, skill points, etc. You can do that in all the zones, don't have to, but I do. Same thing with WOW, you go to a zone, pick up quests, do the quests, and move on. Don't have to do all the quests in that zone. I just find it more fun to do other stuff in an area besides questing such as the vistas, skill points, etc along with still being able to craft and pvp to help raise your level. WOW does let pvp help you level though so that's good on their part.