Rogue PvP Concerns

[Deleted]

Have you guys noticed rogue talents and how they stack?

*Arena 3v3 point of view*

Kidney shot = 6 sec stun.
Talent: Nerve Strike 50% less damage done for 6 sec after Kidney shot is over.
So far you will be 6 sec stun and 6 sec -50% dmg done. 12 sec total
Talent: Paralytic Poison 20% chance, 5 stacks , 4 sec stun (no dimishing returns with Kidney Shot http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/22...ting-the-list/ ).
So far 10 sec stun + 6 sec -50% dmg done. 16 sec total

Then you add kick/gouge/ + Kidney Shot cooldown is 20 sec and it starts again. This will be more than 100% full lockdown for one target and Burst of Speed will guarantee that you are on the target 100% of the time.
Wtf is this? Not sure if serious blizzard!

[Deleted]

Now go play a rogue and try it in a BG. Then rename your thread

[Deleted]

Now go play a rogue and try it in a BG. Then rename your thread

This is for arena only. Let me fix my post.

[Deleted]

This is for arena only. Let me fix my post.

Rogues looks good on paper but hit as hard as paper, the control is still there but solo at 90 is not going to go so well.

[Deleted]

Rogues looks good on paper but hit as hard as paper, the control is still there but solo at 90 is not going to go so well.

If you lock a target like 80% of the time (which is possible with those talents), it doesn't matter what your damage is. I mean you cant have both, but sure you will do more damage than the target you will be locking nonstop.

[Deleted]

Have you guys noticed rogue talents and how they stack?

*Arena 3v3 point of view*

Kidney shot = 6 sec stun.
Talent: Nerve Strike 50% less damage done for 6 sec after Kidney shot is over.
So far you will be 6 sec stun and 6 sec -50% dmg done. 12 sec total
Talent: Paralytic Poison 20% chance, 5 stacks , 4 sec stun (no dimishing returns with Kidney Shot http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/22...ting-the-list/ ).
So far 10 sec stun + 6 sec -50% dmg done. 16 sec total

Then you add kick/gouge/ + Kidney Shot cooldown is 20 sec and it starts again. This will be more than 100% full lockdown for one target and Burst of Speed will guarantee that you are on the target 100% of the time.
Wtf is this? Not sure if serious blizzard!

I really liked that you put an uncontrollable random stun (paralytic) together with kidney shot for a total of 10 seconds stun. What if you get the stun at the same time that you land kidney?
Also, you can't realistically use kidney shot on CD. First of all, it'll cause to DR with itself. Secondly, there's ruptures, SND, recuperates and eviscerates/envenoms to use and the CP generation of the rogue is going to be far from smooth at 90. Also, gouge costs a lot of energy too (you mentioned paralytic, so no DT).
Plus you add BoS, that costs 60 energy. If you use BoS often, there will be no energy for anything else.


While rogue control is great, rogues don't have 300 energy to spend on every GCD or have the power to make procs happen when they want.

[Deleted]

I really liked that you put an uncontrollable random stun (paralytic) together with kidney shot for a total of 10 seconds stun. What if you get the stun at the same time that you land kidney?
Also, you can't realistically use kidney shot on CD. First of all, it'll cause to DR with itself. Secondly, there's ruptures, SND, recuperates and eviscerates/envenoms to use and the CP generation of the rogue is going to be far from smooth at 90. Also, gouge costs a lot of energy too (you mentioned paralytic, so no DT).
Plus you add BoS, that costs 60 energy. If you use BoS often, there will be no energy for anything else.


While rogue control is great, rogues don't have 300 energy to spend on every GCD or have the power to make procs happen when they want.

Well said. You can always time your KS if you keep an eye on the paralytic stacks but everything else you said is true.
Even without paralytic poison, the combination of KS + Nerve Strike is so powerful and it lasts good 12 sec total. It might be too powerful.

[Illana]

let's not forget 4 second root with shiv and paralytic poison

apparently they think it's balanced cause u have to choose between crip and paralytic

WHOS GONNA USE CRIPPLING NOW?

[Deleted]

Well said. You can always time your KS if you keep an eye on the paralytic stacks but everything else you said is true.
Even without paralytic poison, the combination of KS + Nerve Strike is so powerful and it lasts good 12 sec total. It might be too powerful.

Thing is, timing KS with Paralytic stun is going to be an amazing feat, especially if you want to get both fresh and not affected by DR yet because you have other things ticking that need to be refreshed.

Nerve Strike is very important for rogue control, but if it's too powerful it remains to be seen, but if it is, it's certainly not because all the other things you implied. There's too much going on and not enough energy for everything, especially for the first tiers of MOP where stats are not so inflated.

[Deleted]

It's amazing how sad the majority of WoW PvPers are. Rogues were dominating last patch and so many people played one, now? Now there are barely any rogues to speak of. Since patch, everybody plays a ranged "I destroy everything with infinite CC" class or a frost dk.

[Deleted]

It's amazing how sad the majority of WoW PvPers are. Rogues were dominating last patch and so many people played one, now? Now there are barely any rogues to speak of. Since patch, everybody plays a ranged "I destroy everything with infinite CC" class or a frost dk.

It was second to last most played class at level 85. Granted it means in general, but still. Rogue was still not as popular as druids or plate wearers.

[Bogdan]

Just 'cuz you can't global people in a dance and your recuperate does not outheal dot damage anymore, it doesn't mean your class is shit... Rogue has more damage than before, every class has more damage than before... Just 'cuz you can't kill a warlock or a DK with 100% HP remaning, doesn't mean your class is shit... Battlegrounds mean nothing... In arena rogues will be as they always were, are and will be... and that is a really good class... just 'cuz it ain't gonna be OP as hell as before patch, doesn't mean they won't be good... Stop crying and welcome on the same tier as with all other classes (except our overlords mages, ofc)

[Deleted]

Just 'cuz you can't global people in a dance and your recuperate does not outheal dot damage anymore, it doesn't mean your class is shit...

No, rogues ARE SHIT now, anything ranged or plate can just laugh at you, even disc priests are smiting me to death and I have full cata gear and legendaries, it looks good on paper but in reality they just suck ass now.
Assassination is a high damage over time spec but you don't have a lot of time in PvP so I can't even get my rotation rolling unless they are not focusing on me.

[Ringtest]

I have found it takes a while to get used to rogues now, they are under powered compared to most classes, managing energy is difficult in assas having to keep SnD rupture and recup up if you want to heal and then adding your KS and having to envenom aswell? its hard to keep stacking combo points with such an expensive move like mutilate and only getting a 75% chance to get 10 energy back from rupture or garrote, and using burst of speed means even more energy is burnt dispite it having no cooldown. i feel they have to adjust the energy regen if rogues are to be viable like they were before the patch, glad i spent a week in WSG before the patch as sub. good times bursting scrubs down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGoR...&feature=g-upl

[hx9]

As DK.

Before: 100%-0% in control.
After. 50/50 Duel Win/Loss against fellow Gladiator Rogues... who bitch when they lose a single duel.

I'm absolutely concerned for RLS and RMP. The rogue's job has always been control in these comps. One guy feared, one sheeped/hexed, a DPS nullified by stuns and now -50% damage.

If we want to talk about OP, let's talk about double warrior paladin 3s. You can't stop the pain train...

[Deleted]

It was second to last most played class at level 85. Granted it means in general, but still. Rogue was still not as popular as druids or plate wearers.

That could be due to a number of factors, PvE, leveling, alts, mains, etc. If you brought up PvP only, I bet top classes would be rogues and mages as top DPS. The fact that a class is godlike for a season brings out all the nubs to play it, as soon as its nerfed they all move back to a different class that's OP, I just find it pathetic.

OT: I don't think rogues are in an awful spot, granted they aren't great, they are pretty decent on beta but on live they suck because everything else is insanely OP. As someone else has mentioned, you no longer kill people in an opener while they sit in full CC, outheal DoTs, 70% slow with no effort, smoke bomb insta-win or are unkillable by most classes doesn't make you underpowered, it makes you balanced.

I just bet most people who are whining about rogues are butthurt about the patch and are no longer god mode. Saying that, I do empathize with them, ranged and frost DKs are dominating everything atm.

[madkimchi]

I think that the OP has been pvp'ing against the target Dummies too much

[Thundertom]

That could be due to a number of factors, PvE, leveling, alts, mains, etc. If you brought up PvP only, I bet top classes would be rogues and mages as top DPS. The fact that a class is godlike for a season brings out all the nubs to play it, as soon as its nerfed they all move back to a different class that's OP, I just find it pathetic.

OT: I don't think rogues are in an awful spot, granted they aren't great, they are pretty decent on beta but on live they suck because everything else is insanely OP. As someone else has mentioned, you no longer kill people in an opener while they sit in full CC, outheal DoTs, 70% slow with no effort, smoke bomb insta-win or are unkillable by most classes doesn't make you underpowered, it makes you balanced.

I just bet most people who are whining about rogues are butthurt about the patch and are no longer god mode. Saying that, I do empathize with them, ranged and frost DKs are dominating everything atm.

This is how I feel.

[Deleted]

That could be due to a number of factors, PvE, leveling, alts, mains, etc. If you brought up PvP only, I bet top classes would be rogues and mages as top DPS. The fact that a class is godlike for a season brings out all the nubs to play it, as soon as its nerfed they all move back to a different class that's OP, I just find it pathetic.

OT: I don't think rogues are in an awful spot, granted they aren't great, they are pretty decent on beta but on live they suck because everything else is insanely OP. As someone else has mentioned, you no longer kill people in an opener while they sit in full CC, outheal DoTs, 70% slow with no effort, smoke bomb insta-win or are unkillable by most classes doesn't make you underpowered, it makes you balanced.

I just bet most people who are whining about rogues are butthurt about the patch and are no longer god mode. Saying that, I do empathize with them, ranged and frost DKs are dominating everything atm.

Yes, it can be due to many reasons, but the fact is (confirmed by Blizzard) that the rogue class was the least played one before legendaries. It may be pathetic, but it's not exclusive to rogues. There are always a few dominating classes (and no, rogue is not always one of them) and this class will attract more players. However, still with this, the rogue is quite underplayed compared to other classes.

I'm a bit tired of these lies. Who really died in an opener? 110k blue heroes? Rogues with legendaries and heroic Vial are insane, for sure, but not even those could kill me in a single stun when I was on full ruthless and rogues are rogues' favourite prey, so what gives? Outheal dots? Those 6.5k recuperate ticks every 3 seconds were outhealing the dots of what...a level 74 warlock with UK gear? Unkillable? Well...

I'm a rogue and I whine because most of my talents are recycled or directly taken from 4.3 talent trees, because a way too big % of damage is passive (auto-attack, poisons) because my new skills are unspired, because my three specs are playing almost identically, because the only work done on the class animation-wise was with Shadow Dance and CT, because the class got the less amount of work done on glyphs with almost 50% of them remaining untouched...and many being plain useless and because the concept of rogue is gone : The agile leather armor class has high survivability (glyphed talented feint is idiotic) and high passive damage with poor mobility.

Clear?

EDIT : I'll add something. Take away the PVE gear from rogues (legendaries, PVE trinkets), slighty nerf recuperate and Sinister Calling/Find Weakness and ta-da! You have a much more balanced class. Rogue with PVE gear was insane, but that's not a problem with the class, but with Blizzard way to do things.

[whipthefish]

true indeed m8