I propose this: Give the raids back to the raiders

[Deleted]

Because we all pay the same amount every month. If WoW charged by the hour, you might have an argument.

Yes, but you pay to keep the servers online

[Anuibus]

Because developers got a less tighter leash up to some point. But my shrewd idea is that at the end of BC, when Blizzard sunk a boatload of money into SWP and <1% of total WoW population saw it, developers were told to actually use a bit of common sense in their game model.

IDK why you think you know what goes on in development.

And "we have a problem" in current setting means people will quit. Something Blizzard can't quite afford.

If you couldn't do normal mode dungeons in TBC then you in my opinion you didn't belong in the raiding environment. If you quit so be it, but people didn't back then and subs grew constantly.

i raise you skyrim/elder scrolls

DLC you have to pay for may as well be a sub. It's something i disagree with when your mod community makes your game payable that you have to charge for new content.

[cursedseal]

Okay here it is I'm gonna fix LFR in just mere moments, first things first we'll keep the current boss dumbed down mechanics and loot system as is. The gear that is where we're gonna need a bit of refinement, first let's change the color from the epic purple to the awesome LFR pink. That way the hardcore's won't be butt hurt casual's and noob's are wearing there epics. Second we'll make the ilvl one above the heroic 5-mans and the stats slightly better than them, since really LFR is an over glorified heroic 5-man with 25 ppl. Third we'll modify the tier bonuses so they are okay, not as good as the normal level raid gear but better than nothing at all, again pacifying the hardcore's. Fourth, rather than giving valor points it can give durh points used to buy LFR ilvl gears. Finally the gear model's can just be recycled from other instances since we have that brilliant transmog system that can change the look anyways, so really the look is unimportant.

BOOM! I just fixed LFR in one post. I'm gonna go eat my casual fruit loops, y'all can go eat your hardcore salmon.

In all seriousness though it's just a game, have fun, and enjoy it ^.^

And I'm out.

[Deleted]

I seriously hope the elitist players also complain every time a new singleplayer game is released with different levels of difficulty.

What? They don't?

Was going to say that.
"I just finished resistance 3 on max difficulty so I want all other, lower difficulties removed, if someone finished it a a lower difficulty it would make me feel like i accomplished less"

[strangerdanger]

It will never happen because it isn't a very good business strategy. Appealing to the minority is a bad business strategy.

The *hardcore* raiders just need to suck it up and stick to your server first heroic raids. At least you still have that. Blizzard is trying to throw you a bone so they don't have to hear you bitch and moan(too much).

[Anuibus]

text

Didn't do anything to fix it. The only 2 ways I see it as broke are: It's laughably easy, and raiders do it to try and get tier gear for their set bonus. Remove the set bonus and ramp up difficulty a bit and its fine.

[Tomana]

IDK why you think you know what goes on in development.

Erm, because I can read Blizzard financial statements and have a pretty good idea of just the salary costs spent on developing content.
Just paying the developers is a huge cost that has to be spread on the largest playerbase possible.

If you couldn't do normal mode dungeons in TBC then you in my opinion you didn't belong in the raiding environment. If you quit so be it, but people didn't back then and subs grew constantly.

Because the MMORPG market was not saturated back then. Look at this graph, you will see that the entire MMORPG population is stagnating. In this context, retaining your existing customers become much more important because you can't afford the churn.

[gamingmuscle]

well that'd be tough luck then, just because you can't afford or achieve something doesn't mean something should be altered to accommodate lower standards.......

Ok you don't get it and I'm unsure I can articulate it in a way that will be clearer. But I will try.

Ferrari does not produce cars that only .01% of the population base has the ability to purchase, they produce cars that .5% of the population can afford with the occasional special edition for only .01% (heroic mode). But their bread and butter is .5% (normal mode)

[Dylamoo]

There is a thing called statistics. We know how many people killed say KJ before LK hit, and we can compare the number to total lvl 70 population. This operation can be performed by a 8 year old.


Yes, and the numbers at the end of BC told them that something was wrong with their model, because most people never saw any other raid other than Kara, or none at all. And that continuing to invest loads of money for just a few percent of WoW population is not defensible from any point of view.



Eve never ever had big numbers by definition (it is a niche game). All other MMOs were more hardcore (especially LA2).

1. Whether or not someone completes content doesn't denote the situation as wrong. Again statistics and numbers have huge flaws, it's a drone effect the numbers told them what to do and so they did it. Where as you have people who never completed content but loved the ride. Also just because people don't complete the content does not mean they are pro casual raiding that's another problem with statistics that you and many other people can't seem to realize.

2. Something wrong? no that's subjective, no one cared about difficulty until wotlk came into play. When you did get complaints during BC it wasn't because it was too hard, it was because the balance of the raid was wrong and impossible. Not because they wanted the game to be casual. So again how do you come off and say they are a small population? you don't know what every raider thinks, you may know how many completes content but you don't know what the people who doesn't get to clear content thinks.

3. L2 was definitely extreme hardcore but you misunderstood why i listed those games, those games i listed was on WoW league but the one thing WoW had going for them at the time was enjoyable raids. If you piece this puzzle all together people simply liked WoW's style better including raids, where as those other games had similar features but interesting raiding was never one of them.

[Tomana]

It will never happen because it isn't a very good business strategy. Appealing to the minority is a bad business strategy

Well, it can be a perfectly valid strategy if you are either happy with a niche market (e.g. EvE) or think that your customers are very rich and can poney up a lot of money to finance your whole costs. Problem is, a 75$/month sub would not be affordable for most people.

[Deleted]

Was going to say that.
"I just finished resistance 3 on max difficulty so I want all other, lower difficulties removed, if someone finished it a a lower difficulty it would make me feel like i accomplished less"

hint one game is singleplayer compared to an MMO, worlds apart.....

[Deleted]

Read OPs proposals to solve the raiding "issue".... Dear op, the only one that sees the current raiding model as an "issue" is you (and other stuck-up people like you, the "one percent").

Here's why it isn't an issue. You want to raid? Go raid. You don't like LFR? DON'T USE IT. You don't even have to inspect people that have LFR versions of the gear that you have. You can fly to Nagrand (seeing as you liked TBC so much) Where you are almost guaranteed to be left alone, except for a couple of low leveled people that aren't able to use the LFR yet.

Got problems with not all people handling the difficulty of the raids (like they were in TBC, as stated in your proposal)? Here's why this isn't an issue. You don't even have to touch the normal versions of the raids. In fact, you can fly to Nagrand where you are guaranteed to be left alone from those pesky players who can't even kill one lousy simple heroic verison of the boss. And you can have all the difficulty that you want. Heck, for the money you are paying to Blizz, I am sure they would give the bosses a god-mode version just for you! Oh the joy! The difficulty! And it's all for you! Solved your "issues"?

Hmm... I see here that you also have a problem with casual players paying for the same game as you, and STILL get the same experience as you are getting? Only easier? The atrocity!!! How dare they pay for a game and still get the same experience as you, you tough, courageous slayer of wickedness. I mean, there is no way that an elite player like you should be grouped up with these players... I mean, they are only paying Blizzard so YOU can get the experience you wish to get, and them none.

See here how dumb your proposals are? We don't pay for game so you can get the most of it, leaving the others in a ditch. We also want to kill the end-game boss. Some of us have difficulties finding a guild. Some of us can't dedicate ourselves to a guild due to work, family or other reasons. That Blizzard implemented this feature shows that they were thinking about the many of us that never got to see the last bosses. We never got to see the Black temple. Nor did we get a shot at the simpler ones such as Gruul, or Prince. Granted, you may be pissed that we get to see the same content as you with a little less effort than you put into it. That's why they came up with heroics, and upcoming challenge modes with scoreboards. These are for those of you that wants a little bit more challenge, with a fitting reward as well. The 100% mount drop for example. Cool titles. And such and such. Blizzard has thought about everyone of us playing this game. Why can't you? Does it hurt your pride that much? Then I guess this game won't be for you anymore if you can't adapt to it, because it sure as hell won't adapt to you. If anyone is having problems with adapting to this evolving game (like that first comment "100% agreeing with op" post), why not quit? Blizz can do without the 1% since there is still 99% left to play this game, and total players will still keep on rising due to these new features.

Absolutely agree's with this post.

There's far too much of the me,me,me mentality that's ruining WoW. So going to dread running hc's with these elitist morons.

[Wilderness]

Maybe he should have typed that BC has seen the highest sub. growth of all the expansions, WOTLK is where the things have stalled to reasons known or unknown. Highest sub. count if of little relevance here. Diablo 3 may be the fastest selling PC title of all times but not on its own merits but because of the legendary status of Diablo 1 and 2.

Ok, but how can you attribute that to the raiding system when such a small segment of the WoW population raids?

[Disconnected]

i raise you skyrim/elder scrolls

Don't get me wrong, I spent a LOT of time playing TES games, but not once have I ever come close to accumulating 100 days of actual play time. In addition to that, my example of 100 days /played is on the lower end of the spectrum. There are many people, especially hardcore raiders, who easily have 3-4x as much /played time.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/reddragonknight/
1942 hours in css. Some games actually do get supported, either by the developer or the community(or both), and trying to say that just because it doesn't have a sub means you won't have 100 days played is a faulty assumption.

CSS has been out longer than WoW and in all of this time, you've managed to accumulate 1942 hours (just over 80 days). In addition to that, looking at your actual stats, I see the following: Total Playtime: 460h 14m 33s. 460 hours is less than 20 days so your argument is kind of well...bad.

[Deleted]

Ok, but how can you attribute that to the raiding system when such a small segment of the WoW population raids?

perhaps because majority cba to do any effort to raid......

[Soulwind]

hint one game is singleplayer compared to an MMO, worlds apart.....

In any case, the MMO would be the one made for the majority, wouldn't it?

[Anuibus]

Erm, because I can read Blizzard financial statements and have a pretty good idea of just the salary costs spent on developing content.
Just paying the developers is a huge cost that has to be spread on the largest playerbase possible.

Pretty sure it's just bundled up into "cost of development," so again, IDK how you know that somehow all of that goes into raiding.

[Deleted]

hint one game is singleplayer compared to an MMO, worlds apart.....

You just compared a Ferrari with WoW so yeah. The only difference with an mmo and a SP game is that other people can see what you done, so this all makes me think you want boasting rights rather than anything else.

[Chireru93]

ulduar, widely regarded as one of the best raid instances ever.

how about instead of just a heroic boss "doing more damage" or "summoning more adds", we have heroic bosses actually CHANGE like in ulduar? flame leviathan was a perfect example of how a boss can change based on, in that case, how many pillars you left up.

[Wildtree]

Second we'll make the ilvl one above the heroic 5-mans and the stats slightly better than them, since really LFR is an over glorified heroic 5-man with 25 ppl. Third we'll modify the tier bonuses so they are okay, not as good as the normal level raid gear but better than nothing at all, again pacifying the hardcore's.

If I didn't misunderstand the blues, then that's whats gonna come anyway.. In parts to please the raiding community, and in other parts to prevent said raiding community from using LFR to speed up their gearing progress...
Cause that's another part that happened. Raiders used the LFR to get competitive gear (we all likely remember how Paragon screwed themselves out of the possible world's first by even abusing the loot bug in lfr), to blast through normal modes faster. And then they complaint that it was too easy. had they raided in the current tier or 5 man heroic gear and the little epics from the valor vendor, they had faced a whole different ballgame in DS normal mode.