It is best Pay to Win Game...

[gismo7354]

Who cares? If someone did that the only questions should be "did you have fun" or "are you having fun now"? If either answer is a yes then it doesn't matter. That person had fun playing the game the way they wanted to.

[Voidism]

What exactly did you "win" by doing all that?

[papajohn4]

some people have serious problems on reading. There is a fact in MMOs. people buy golds to do things faster. This is a fact or gold sellers would not exist! Now these people that buy golds, what can they do with golds in GW2?

GW2: EVERYTHING
wow: little
rift: little
Swtor: little

If I were a gold seller, would I want to sell gold in GW2 more than I want to sell in rift and swtor? If I was a bot programmer would I want to make a bot for GW2?
Now tell me this is not affect you, when you will have 1000 bots spamming aoe and camping events in high end areas..It ends up this game have more sworn to death defenders than wow, I am amazed...If in wow/swtor/rift I could get an instant level 85 player and buy full heroic raid gear with real money what would have happened?

do you think that wow/swtor/rift players would say , I don't care, he just takes thing "faster"? it doesn't have ressilient so it wouldn't affect the pvp at all...
ahh forgot, these players are the bad community who play for gear while gw2 has the most cool players that only play for fun...

Also can you tell me something you can do in MMOs that does not only need time? time is the most valuable resource in MMOs. Everything cost time and nothing more. I don't care how people have fun...I don't care how the person who buy golds feel and how fun he have..time = value in MMOs. With your logic what is pay to win?something you can only get with money and you cannot get in game?so everyone can get full heroic raid gear in wow, so there is no problem to sell it too...the poor person who will buy it he will just do it faster..and I feel so sad for him that he will not enjoy farming the heroic raid for months...as I feel sorry for the person in GW2 that he will miss the fun to farm shelks for hours to get those vials of thin blood to skill up his crafting

PS. I am amazed how people continue to say if the person that buy gold would enjoy the game or not, as this is the matter...

[Sundreamer]

congratulations... you blew all your money to be the same as everyone else. Ultimately you may get there faster but pst...hardcore gamers hit 80 within 3-4 days legitimately.

there was some1 that hit it at the 2nd day (before official release)...his guildies sent him all the crafting mats they could find and he hit 80 just by crafting...now he can play all the map without the fear of being underleveled i guess, but other than that it didn't do him any good

to begin with, TP was down for about a week or so before starting to come up once a day for a few minutes, in that time tons of ppl hit 80 without buying gems, to trade those into gold, to buy mats, to craft their way to 80
and pay2win would mean u have to pay money in order to get the best gear, which no1 else can get by playing the game
and by buying so many gems, all you're doing is increasing the amount of gems ppl get that trade their gold for gems
also, i doubt you bought so many gems, seeing that 800 gems are like 1g and getting to the next tier (aka getting from, say bones to large bones) already cost me a gold for just 1, maybe 2, professions
sure, go ahead and get things faster done with your real money, if you have it...i can still get to the same point after a while
it's not like you can buy gear that you'd have to go through uber hard things to get it
like, if the same option would be in wow and u could buy heroic raiding gear, that would be too much...but using your RL money for the TP, go ahead

to conclude: no i don't think it's "too much" what we can do with gems and i couldn't care less if others pay their way to the max lvl, all you're doing is filling the purse of arenanet, so they can develope more stuff...so actually, thank you ^^

[papajohn4]

and pay2win would mean u have to pay money in order to get the best gear, which no1 else can get by playing the game

this will never happen and is not happening in any game. With your logic every MMO can sell anything there is in game with no problem. I want to buy the baron mount in wow for example, no problem..you can get it in game too. I want the mount from Ragnaros, ok, people can get it in game too. I want to buy Full heroic raid gear..still no problem, people can get it in-game too...

am I right? If I can buy full heroic raid gear in Wow, Buy the baron and ragnaros mount, buy the title Insane, buy a guild 25 level, all these are not considered pay to win since everyone can do this in game? Don't tell me Heroic raids need skill, they need time and patience.

[Nev12]

With your logic every MMO can sell anything there is in game with no problem.

Yep, pretty much.

[Nikijih]

some people have serious problems on reading. There is a fact in MMOs. people buy golds to do things faster. This is a fact or gold sellers would not exist! Now these people that buy golds, what can they do with golds in GW2?

GW2: EVERYTHING
wow: little
rift: little
Swtor: little

If I were a gold seller, would I want to sell gold in GW2 more than I want to sell in rift and swtor? If I was a bot programmer would I want to make a bot for GW2?
Now tell me this is not affect you, when you will have 1000 bots spamming aoe and camping events in high end areas..It ends up this game have more sworn to death defenders than wow, I am amazed...If in wow/swtor/rift I could get an instant level 85 player and buy full heroic raid gear with real money what would have happened?

do you think that wow/swtor/rift players would say , I don't care, he just takes thing "faster"? it doesn't have ressilient so it wouldn't affect the pvp at all...
ahh forgot, these players are the bad community who play for gear while gw2 has the most cool players that only play for fun...

Also can you tell me something you can do in MMOs that does not only need time? time is the most valuable resource in MMOs. Everything cost time and nothing more. I don't care how people have fun...I don't care how the person who buy golds feel and how fun he have..time = value in MMOs. With your logic what is pay to win?something you can only get with money and you cannot get in game?so everyone can get full heroic raid gear in wow, so there is no problem to sell it too...the poor person who will buy it he will just do it faster..and I feel so sad for him that he will not enjoy farming the heroic raid for months...as I feel sorry for the person in GW2 that he will miss the fun to farm shelks for hours to get those vials of thin blood to skill up his crafting

PS. I am amazed how people continue to say if the person that buy gold would enjoy the game or not, as this is the matter...

Have you played GW2? Something tells me you dont own the game yet, because if you did you would stop comparing it to raiding games like WoW or Rift or even SWTOR. In those games you are not buying "time", you are buying "gear". Sure, the idea is to have gear faster, but in the end its still the gear you are after.

Pay to win means that you gain a distinct advantage over other players. In those other games, having better gear lets you be stronger in PvP and better in PvE. In GW2 that is not the case. You seem to think we disreguard gear because of some wierd pride factor. We dont, we disregard gear because gear is the same for everyone in GW2 at max level with the only exception being legendary weapons. You may get various LOOKS, but your thief will be exactly as powerfull as any other level 80 thief with the same build, no more no less, especially considering the deleveling system.

Also keep in mind that this isnt a "end game" game. Not that there isn't one, but ANet worked hard to make sure "end game" starts at level 1. If you skip to level 80, you are not beating other players to the goal, you are just skipping it altogether. Its kind of like going mountain-climbing by having an helicopter drop you at the top of the mountain. Sure, you got there first... but you missed the "climbing" part of your "climbing" trip, and it cost you a shitload to boot.

So yes, you can buy your way to the top. Except this isnt WoW. The top isnt some 1% of the playerbase. The top is 100% of the playerbase. Anyone that hit level 80 is at the top. Its not a competition (sPvP aside), there is no raiding ladder, so buying your way there gains you absolutely no advantage whatsoever, hence why it cannot be considered pay to win. Its "Pay to skip the game".

[Deleted]

In the end you would pay 300+ €/$ to be on the same level as anyone else instead of having some effort to do it.

[KevyB]

Ignore the troll, let's go back online instead.

[papajohn4]

Yep, pretty much.

Ah I see...then maybe I am a very bad guy that I want other people put same effort as I put to get things...when I stand next to a person that have x gear set I want to know that he did x things to get it...I guess that makes me bad person..or unworthy to play this cool game that is meant to be for cool people.

Ignore the troll, let's go back online instead.

that was the most constructive post with real arguments I read in my life, you are genius

Have you played GW2? Something tells me you dont own the game yet, because if you did you would stop comparing it to raiding games like WoW or Rift or even SWTOR. In those games you are not buying "time", you are buying "gear". Sure, the idea is to have gear faster, but in the end its still the gear you are after.

Pay to win means that you gain a distinct advantage over other players. In those other games, having better gear lets you be stronger in PvP and better in PvE. In GW2 that is not the case. You seem to think we disreguard gear because of some wierd pride factor. We dont, we disregard gear because gear is the same for everyone in GW2 at max level with the only exception being legendary weapons. You may get various LOOKS, but your thief will be exactly as powerfull as any other level 80 thief with the same build, no more no less, especially considering the deleveling system.

Also keep in mind that this isnt a "end game" game. Not that there isn't one, but ANet worked hard to make sure "end game" starts at level 1. If you skip to level 80, you are not beating other players to the goal, you are just skipping it altogether. Its kind of like going mountain-climbing by having an helicopter drop you at the top of the mountain. Sure, you got there first... but you missed the "climbing" part of your "climbing" trip, and it cost you a shitload to boot.

So yes, you can buy your way to the top. Except this isnt WoW. The top isnt some 1% of the playerbase. The top is 100% of the playerbase. Anyone that hit level 80 is at the top. Its not a competition (sPvP aside), there is no raiding ladder, so buying your way there gains you absolutely no advantage whatsoever, hence why it cannot be considered pay to win. Its "Pay to skip the game".

I have the game and play from the headstart...I know all these you say and I understand, I didn't say it is like other games or like wow e.t.c. I made some examples...you said

Sure, the idea is to have gear faster, but in the end its still the gear you are after.

and the person who farms for days nodes and materials from mobs to skill up his crafting Discipline what is he after for? the person that will do the dungeon 40+ times instead of 1-2 to see it and experience it what is he after for?

[Deleted]

"Pay to win" generally means that, without paying, you can't really beat someone who does pay for stuff, such as weapons. It would mean that anyone who's spent money on the Gem store, would be an unstoppable killing machine in WvW or sPvP, and would blow away players that haven't. It would mean that dungeon groups would favour gem store players over those who haven't bought 'l33t gear'.

However, this is not the case. You can do that if you really want to, but it's not going to affect anyone else's play and certainly isn't mandatory to 'win'.

[Nikijih]

Ah I see...then maybe I am a very bad guy that I want other people put same effort as I put to get things...when I stand next to a person that have x gear set I want to know that he did x things to get it...I guess that makes me bad person..or unworthy to play this cool game that is meant to be for cool people.

At this point you are just trolling. Your question has been answered, if you refuse to listen that is your own problem.

"Pay to win" generally means that, without paying, you can't really beat someone who does pay for stuff, such as weapons.

^ This. Pay to win means something specific. It refers to F2Ps in which the only way to compete with players spending money is by also spending money. It can be stretched to include non-f2p games in cases where you can buy ingame advantages like raiding gear, but even that is a stretch. You cannot just say "oh you used real money on a game, it must be p2w". Thats like me saying "oh this BBQ chicken is a soup because there is a liquid (sauce) component!"

[Deafknight]

I hereby declare: ACTUALLY PLAYING FOR FUN

the most retarded phrase of 2012.

[Nev12]

EvE does well with a similar system, you can buy cash(Apart from skills, everything is bought via cash) and it seems like most people who play the game do not care about that, nor did it hamper it's success. It seems to me that you're blowing things out of proportion.

Before you label me as a "Fanboy", I don't even play Guild Wars 2.

Ah I see...then maybe I am a very bad guy that I want other people put same effort as I put to get things...when I stand next to a person that have x gear set I want to know that he did x things to get it...I guess that makes me bad person..or unworthy to play this cool game that is meant to be for cool people.

Perhaps you are a bad person or unworthy, I don't know. To me you just sound bitter, that's all.

[papajohn4]

At this point you are just trolling. Your question has been answered, if you refuse to listen that is your own problem.

I was trolling because I don't believe the answer was honest.

^ This. Pay to win means something specific. It refers to F2Ps in which the only way to compete with players spending money is by also spending money. It can be stretched to include non-f2p games in cases where you can buy ingame advantages like raiding gear, but even that is a stretch. You cannot just say "oh you used real money on a game, it must be p2w". Thats like me saying "oh this BBQ chicken is a soup because there is a liquid (sauce) component!"

I have played a lot of F2P games and none of them ever sold something you couldn't also get in-game. And I can say that you could do less with your money in those F2P games than you can do in GW2.

So I guess the term "pay to win" doesn't even exist because in every game you buy things you just do things faster. In this case, ok GW2 is not "pay to win" but also there isn't a game out there "pay to win"

[Deleted]

Have you worked out how much it would cost yet? I know you said if you were rich but most wouldn't be so would interesting to find out how much to instantly win the game.

The Cultural T3 Armour set alone (130 gold) would cost over $600.

And it's purely cosmetic (stats are the same as gear you can buy on the Trading Post for 1 gold), also note that it's the most expensive thing in the game that can only be bought with gold (Buying all the materials for a Legendary weapon would be more expensive but you also have the option of farming all of the materials yourself).

[Wælcyrie]

That isn't pay to win.

Pay to win for example is like, standard players can only get a good sword from doing raids where as someone can come along not do a raid and jus buy a sword with real money which is vastly superior to any sword you can get in that game.

[papajohn4]

EvE does well with a similar system, you can buy cash(Apart from skills, everything is bought via cash) and it seems like most people who play the game do not care about that, nor did it hamper it's success. It seems to me that you're blowing things out of proportion.

Before you label me as a "Fanboy", I don't even play Guild Wars 2.

I didn't played EVE and I don't really know how it works so I cannot argue on this. Also I didn't had any intention to call you fanboy

That isn't pay to win.

Pay to win for example is like, standard players can only get a good sword from doing raids where as someone can come along not do a raid and jus buy a sword with real money which is vastly superior to any sword you can get in that game.

but this cannot happen in any game...what it happens is player 1 get this sword in 1 day while player 2 get it in a month. Some people does not consider this pay to win because both swords have same power, I consider it "pay to win" though or if the term "pay to win" is wrong, then I consider this a bad thing to happen and name it whatever you want

[Sylvanie]

this will never happen and is not happening in any game.

Actually, that (paying real money for gear advantages) has happened in certain F2P MMOs, and this is where the pay-to-win term comes from.

I also really wish that people who make sweeping statements about "all MMOs" or "no MMOs" had played some games other than WoW or Rift or SW:TOR to understand that less than a decade ago something like this was considered a perfectly normal type of MMO gameplay.

It can be really hard to understand for newcomers how much diversity WoW sucked out of the MMO market (not because of anything Blizzard did, but because everybody tried to jump on the bandwagon).

[Deleted]

It's not pay to win, it's pay to bypass all the cripple stuff that's in the game.
Also gold sinks everywhere to keep the economy stable yet you can buy gold...