Innovation in the FPS genre

[Deleted]

Hey everybody, so after seeing some footage of the new BF4; and people complaining about it just being a new map-pack and nothing innovating about it (same as almost every time CoD or battlefield release a new title, or a any other FPS game out there). So I come here to you guys to ask, what would you implement in a FPS to make it stand out and change the scene of the FPS-genre

A list of the most normal/standard things in FPS (I haven't played them all, so sorry if I missed something really obvious):

- Weapons: we have all the normal hitscan and non-hitscan replicas of realworld weapons, and then we have alien weapons that often tend to just be remodeled/reskinned and still just a bullet/laser spewer that hits for x amount of damage.

- gamemode: Teamdeathmatch, deathmatch, capture the flag (conquest BF), retrieve the enemy flag and get back to your base, escort (TF2).

- Vehicles: Tank, APC, Jeep with mounted gun/rocketturret, figtherjet, gunboat, helicopter, little small vechicle (ATV, motorcycle etc.) without a weapon.

- Classes/roles: Medic (heal and revive people), heavy (big spray'n'pray guns and rocket launcher), engineer (repair vechicles, drop ammo, other support roles), assualt/standard solider (basicly just there for the shooting part), sniper (the absolut douchebaggiest class ever, that is fact not opinion).

So I ask you: could you add something to these list (or something completly other) that you think would stand out, be memorized and be a success?

Also no need to begin a discussion about which game is better or shittier, or how the community is horrible or kids ruining the games, or how the genre is dead or was better in 2001 (unless there was a good gamemode back then). However you are allowed to discuss how fluffy and cute bunnies are

[Themius]

honestly the only fps I really enjoy and continue to play today is tf2.

[OmniSkribe]

Hey everybody, so after seeing some footage of the new BF4; and people complaining about it just being a new map-pack and nothing innovating about it (same as almost every time CoD or battlefield release a new title, or a any other FPS game out there). So I come here to you guys to ask, what would you implement in a FPS to make it stand out and change the scene of the FPS-genre

The problem is not about innovations. The problem is that BF4 brings almost nothing new after BF3. Few tweaks in graphics, few more destructable buildings. BUT almost the same list of weapons, same sounds, same design etc.

As a comparison: BF 2 and BF 2142. BF2142 was fresh and nice spin for a BF series after many weapon/map expansions for BF2.

Right now if you look at BF4 all addition it brings can be easy added as an Expansion for BF3.

That's why it was't such a big problem during BF2 to BF3 jump. Because it was absolutely new level.

[Deleted]

honestly the only fps I really enjoy and continue to play today is tf2.

So what is that TF2 do, that just makes it worth playing? Surely it can't be the hats?

[Endus]

Shifted this thread to the Video Games Discussion forum, where it's more topical.

[Deleted]

The problem is not about innovations. The problem is that BF4 brings almost nothing new after BF3. Few tweaks in graphics, few more destructable buildings. BUT almost the same list of weapons, same sounds, same design etc.

As a comparison: BF 2 and BF 2142. BF2142 was fresh and nice spin for a BF series after many expansions for BF2.

Right now if you look at BF4 all addition it brings can be easy added as an Expansion for BF3.

So back to a more futureristic setting would be okay? BF2143?

[Damsbo]

Baricades is something I'dd like to see..
Like the "support" class in BF, if he could lay down some "sandbags" or something, to defend a position - would be cool

[OmniSkribe]

So back to a more futureristic setting would be okay? BF2143?

That's what I and my friends were expecting from BF3 and BF4. So yes. We still waiting 2143.

In my universe there is no games called Bad Company 2 and Bad Company. So yeah after BC(Modern), BC2(Modern), BF3(Modern) I hoped for something new. And no I don't want any major changes to BF mechanics. Because that's what make is BF.

But there is no need for futuristic only.

[Itisamuh]

I don't think a quote on quote realistic shooter, such as Battlefield or Call of Duty, has much room for innovation. Games like Halo, Quake, Unreal Tournament, etc have that room, but there just hasn't been anything as innovative as Halo since then. Its sequels have expanded on things of course, and not always for the better, but it's still the same basic gameplay. I think shooters need to focus on having good maps and interesting game modes, since the gameplay doesn't have that much tweak room. Hopefully Destiny finally pulls off the merger of first person shooter and open living world that I've always dreamed of. And since it's from Bungie, maybe the gameplay will feel similar to Halo.

[Themius]

So what is that TF2 do, that just makes it worth playing? Surely it can't be the hats?

Hatfortress!! It's all about the hats!

seriously though tf2 is just a more fun fps and honestly just takes more skill than some of the other games,(bf, cod) and you really need to work as a team and not having a good class setup and cost you games. Sure in the other games this is true, but not to the extent that it is in tf2.

[Deleted]

I don't think a quote on quote realistic shooter, such as Battlefield or Call of Duty, has much room for innovation. Games like Halo, Quake, Unreal Tournament, etc have that room, but there just hasn't been anything as innovative as Halo since then. Its sequels have expanded on things of course, and not always for the better, but it's still the same basic gameplay. I think shooters need to focus on having good maps and interesting game modes, since the gameplay doesn't have that much tweak room. Hopefully Destiny finally pulls off the merger of first person shooter and open living world that I've always dreamed of. And since it's from Bungie, maybe the gameplay will feel similar to Halo.

Yeah when it comes to the "realistic" of course making ludacris guns would be a little off. But you could innovate on the gamemode and map department, like project reallity did with the insurgents mode, where you have to kill/restrain insurgents to discover weaponcaches that needs blowing up.

[TJ]

Simple is what makes an FPS good, things like CoD always have flaws since there are so many absurdly ridiculous or overpowered killstreaks. That is CoD's "signature", but it gets frustrating after a while and they have no idea how to balance them and make them reasonable.

Counter Strike is the perfect example of simple and look how successful it was. You just need a well made game where skill really pays off, which is what Counter Strike used to be. Not only that, it had many mods which made the game hugely replayable. Not half arsed ones, either. Proper modes which were awesome and comparable to the actual game. One of them being zombie mod which was immensely fun.

[Deleted]

Hatfortress!! It's all about the hats!

seriously though tf2 is just a more fun fps and honestly just takes more skill than some of the other games,(bf, cod) and you really need to work as a team and not having a good class setup and cost you games. Sure in the other games this is true, but not to the extent that it is in tf2.

That might, opinion or fact. But that wasn't so much what I was looking for, could you tell something about the class combinations being vital? Or are the mabs wellmade and balanced around a special or different gameplay?

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Counter Strike is the perfect example of simple and look how successful it was. You just need a well made game where skill really pays off, which is what Counter Strike used to be. Not only that, it had many mods which made the game hugely replayable. Not half arsed ones, either. Proper modes which were awesome and comparable to the actual game. One of them being zombie mod which was immensely fun.

Yeah counterstrike is trully an example of a FPS that changed the way we looked at the genre. And all the community made gamemodes and maps did make the game last so long that is ludacris to think of

I would really like to see something like the BF3/4 engine being given to the community to make some weird maps and gamemodes, I think it would extent its lifetime and playerbase, but DLC

[zealo]

So back to a more futureristic setting would be okay? BF2143?

DICE is currently developing a battlefront 3 game since EA obtained the star wars licenses and rights from when lucasarts went down, it wont be called battlefield 2143 but a more futuristic shooter is currently being developed by the same studio.

[Deleted]

DICE is currently developing a battlefront 3 game since EA obtained the star wars licenses and rights from when lucasarts went down, it wont be called battlefield 2143 but a more futuristic shooter is currently being developed by the same studio.

I know I'm just a little scared that is gonna end up being BF reskinned/remodelled. Like just standard conquest, (team)deathmatch etc.

[Collegeguy]

The team aspect makes it a better game all around in TF2. In other fps, you have those guys who do nothing but camp and snipe the entire game. People may attempt to try that in TF2, but they will fail miserably.

[Deleted]

The team aspect makes it a better game all around in TF2. In other fps, you have those guys who do nothing but camp and snipe the entire game. People may attempt to try that in TF2, but they will fail miserably.

So what could you do to change that? What could force people into not going lone-wolf and work as a team?

[Themius]

That might, opinion or fact. But that wasn't so much what I was looking for, could you tell something about the class combinations being vital? Or are the mabs wellmade and balanced around a special or different gameplay?

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Yeah counterstrike is trully an example of a FPS that changed the way we looked at the genre. And all the community made gamemodes and maps did make the game last so long that is ludacris to think of

I would really like to see something like the BF3/4 engine being given to the community to make some weird maps and gamemodes, I think it would extent its lifetime and playerbase, but DLC

Well take cp_dustbowl last map for instance. It is quite crucial to have a full lvl 3 sentry or 2 on the last point and prior in the room (with a teleport half way in the door to allow spies to back travel after first point is captured) otherwise it will likely be lost. You need to have a pyro to spycheck around the engies and to airblast out fires on team players and to defend against ubers and demos and soliders (and if really skillful huntsman) spies are useful to get in and take out high value targets (medics, demos, heavies in that order imo) and medics are important to be able to build uber heal everyone and push forward to take out the sentries that the defense is defending though if you have a pyro or two airblasting back the ubers than well... that's why you need the pyros. 1 godly sniper will do wonders and demos soldiers are just great classes to have around to actually do some killing. Heavy isn't my favorite class by the way.

Scouts are good on a lot of maps for getting in, harrassing, picking off players taking out teleports (as they can just bonk and dash to back and people don't really pay attention to the battle ground between the port points)

Too many of a class can just break things, 3-4 spies, 3-4 snipers too many soldiers or demos and not enough spies snipers or engies. Especially if it's a 9 person team.

[Stir]

In pure FPS, there is little innovation possible. It's an evolutionary dead end in and of itself, but it contains useful aspects that may carry over in other genres.
An example of this is the Team Fortress series. It did not innovate the FPS genre as such, since the concept of FPS remained the same (first person shooter). What it díd do was allow people specialization options that much resemble roleplaying games. It wasn't the first FPS game to do this (by a long shot, though I don't remember the title of the first game I played that solidly incorporated this principle), but it's certainly (one of) the most popular games at this point in time that does.

'Pure FPS' is repetitive by its nature. The only progressions the genre has made are vehicle and cover mechanics. What we see instead is that the FPS genre itself is splitting up into three different categories:
-Third-person Shooters (like the current 'Warframe' game) exploit the third-person playstyle in order to allow for more player control. First-person view is too limited to perform stunts of acrobatics; the player may (and will) experience a loss of environmental and spatial awareness, even though games like Mirror's Edge and, further back, Alien Versus Predator, semi-successfully allowed for such a dynamic playstyle.
-Specialization Shooters (such as TF2) delve into RPG-mechanics, which grants them a wide conceptual ecology in which they can evolve and divert.
-Classic FPS: Games that still pretty much revolve solely on the principle of 'point my cursor at something, and click.'

Now; these 'genres' often overlap, and a more popular RPG genre of the moment is adapting 'aim' mechanics (and sometimes even the first-person view) of the FPS game to their own benefit, to the extent where it is sometimes hard to distinguish between an FPS and an RPG. An example of this is the Elder Scrolls series.

In the end, there is only so much that can be done with 'pure' or 'classical' FPS, and in that sense, it is an evolutionary dead end. FPS games of today are popular only because of spectacle, and therefore, graphics (and physics engine) is the most important focus of designing an FPS game. The only real progression in an FPS game is not so much its system (often made redundant through hitscan mechanics), but its story, artstyle and the amount of spectacle one can generate.

However, the FPS genre does spur technological progress. Because of its high demands for graphics and physics engine. And it has useful components for other genres. Like the platform genre, it'll 'die out' eventually because that which cannot adapt cannot survive (even though platform games are still played and, among certain groups, still quite popular, the genre itself is extinct in every meaningful way because every platform game is, mechanically, pretty much the same as every other platform game; the same goes for FPS). Still, the FPS genre has essential elements that are useful for other genres of play, and I think the eventual result is that those elements will be absorbed by other genres to great extent, as is already happening on a rather large scale.

[Deleted]

-snip

I will give you, yes the genre is somewhat limited to what it can do to refresh or change how it is. But on the other hand, couldn't different maps with completly different goal change that? Let's say one player gets to be a VIP massive health and has some abilities that are hard hitting or something like that, then one team has to protect this person for x amount time or get that person to a point on the opposite side of the map (with the enemy team spawning further and further back as the other team progresses).
And when it comes to the aspect of first person being limited in the movement department, yes to a certain extend but take a look at titanfall, where the player has a very fast and acrobatic movement being able to run sideways on walls and jump with a jetpack and boost forward. Not as acrobatic as warframe but it has some acrobatic movement with it.

And when it comes to classes I think they could easily come with some new things in a futuristic or fantasy themed game. For example a class that has a blink/teleport/warp ability that could heavily focus on traversing between buildings or be the ideal flanker class. And then balance that class by giving a debuff to health/damage or disable them from shotting for x amount of time. Or a class that focus almost entirely on support, putting down a shield that can take x amount of damage to support a medic that has to revive others, or buff other players with either damage, health or overall speed on abilities, or put down a zone where your soldiers take less damage or the enemy gets a debuff or is being revialed. A heavy class as they had in Warhammer 40K that could root themselves to add stability to their weapon, and limit their cone. Or a melee class that can take more of a beating but is faster and does massive amounts of damage with their weapon, and could have abilities like a short time invincibility, or sacrifice life for damage or speed.

I think there is a lot of possibilities to change the FPS-genre from being only about shooting and the one with the best aim or reactions wins, and instead put focus on abilities that require thinking ahead or thinking like a team, or simply taking other risks than putting your head over a wall to look and give some things to the player to work with. All in all to achieve a goal or just win a team deathmatch.

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Well take cp_dustbowl last map for instance. It is quite crucial to have a ....

Sounds very much like there really needs to be this dynamic team construction, but doesn't that limit the game with a meta game, and not allow people taking risks or try some new combos?