Is Guild Wars 2 REALLY an MMO?

[Artorias]

TL;DR, GW2 is obviously an MMO, you play with tons of people online, but in my opinion it is really more of a single-player experience. Fespite the fact that you enjoy it with other people it's very personalized to you and what you want to do, rather than you conforming to it and everyone around you. It simply has the added benefit of being able to quest and do dungeons with other people.

It has tons of people in an online persistant world, so obviously it is an MMO right?

Ehh... Maybe.

I hear all of these comparisons to other MMOs, and quite frankly none of them are valid. Guild Wars 2 is not a true MMO.

What is the point of an MMO? Or rather, what do most people THINK is the point of an MMO? Simply put, to consume one's life and give them something to do forever and ever and ever regardless of how repetetive it is, just so they can tell their friends how awesome they are at gathering 1337 pixels. Right? That's what modern MMO's do, they give you a world to live in, literally. The concept of 'fun' is almost lost in the grind.

Can Guild Wars 2 be considered new world in which we can spend every waking moment? Probably not. It's quite honestly not designed to keep people playing for eternity. Why? Obviously because of the lack of subscription (inb4 people saying this is a terrible defense to bring up). Rather, it is designed to pack an immense amount of content into a single-player style MMO. It is designed to give each and every person an experience they will never forget. It is deisnged for you to actually have fun while playing it. Sadly, no one sees it this way. They want the ability to rise above the game, to get that loot at the end of the tunnel. They want that dungeon that they can run a hundred times just so they can get the right combination of gear, just in time for another repetetive dungeon to be released so they can do it all over again. The problem with that kind of game is the experience is completely funnelled into one action. Guild Wars 2 breaks that mold.

Guild Wars 2 is not at all traditional. It basically throws all the concepts of an MMO out the window. The game doesn't start at max level, it starts before you even create your character. It doesn't force you to do anything, you can play it any way you want. You can even craft to max level. If you want to keep playing after you've done all the dungeons and personal story, you have a TON to focus on. Above all else, it isn't about gear, it isn't about loot, it isn't about shiny things, it is about enjoying the entire experience. Simple, honest fun. However, if you want shiny things, you can still get shiny things, but only by actually playing the game, rather than adhering to a strict sect of elitist raiders that most people can never hope to measure up to. It doesn't adhere to the elite, it adheres to everyone. And for some reason, that makes the elite feel left out.

But what's one of the biggest components of it's anti-MMO-ness? Scaling.

Regardless of how many people are around, the events scale. You can have 100 people doing an event, or you can do it by yourself. The amount of people is basically irrelevent except in group events (which can be done with as little as two people, and solo'd if you're at all decent), and therefore it plays a lot more like a single player game. The only difference is there are actually other people doing the same thing. If you want you can come back to GW2 long after everyone has moved on and play it on your own as a single player game, with the exception of dungeons of course.

So, does it play like an MMO? Not at all. It plays more like Diablo 2 only with more people in the open world. It's a multiplayer singleplayer game. You do most of your work alone, but alongside other people. You can do your quests and events by yourself, there just happen to be a ton of other people doing them too. Am I making sense? Probably not, but oh well.

TL;DR, Guild Wars 2 is a Single Player game that you happen to play with a lot of people, and eventually you will beat the game. That being said, it is the single most valuable, innovative, interactive, and outright beautifully polished single player game in the history of the internet. Enjoy it, because it is glorious.

/rant

EDIT: This was just posted in another thread, it's from the original lead WoW developer:

The feeling of grind melts away, and you just enjoy yourself. That’s the key, because all long-term (100+ plus) online games are about progression. The grind is still there, as it has to be for any progression based game. But the manner in which we go through the progression of Guild Wars 2 is fresh and unique enough to keep us interested and entertained for hundreds of hours. They did to the WoW formula what WoW did to the EQ formula. You see, quest hubs and such were heavily promoted by Blizzard to hide the fact that you were just grinding mobs to level (which was the original EQ formula). You were, in fact, still doing the same things as EQ, it just felt like you had a purpose and a story that guided you through it. It distracted you from the grinding. I remember early EQ players in beta for World of Warcraft. They would just run out into the fields and start killing monsters…and be disappointed. When I asked them if they tried the quests, they would always react with shock…they never tried them, or in some cases, even noticed them. But once people started questing, it was a completely different experience, and the rest was history.

[melodramocracy]

By definition, yes, it is. Not sure how this is even up for debate.

And the scaling is frankly one of the best things about it.

[skycaptain]

Please play the game. It's much more of an MMO than WoW. WoW is only an MMO at max level, this you have people everywhere, events everywhere, people helping each other, etc.

[Artorias]

By definition, yes, it is. Not sure how this is even up for debate.

And the scaling is frankly one of the best things about it.

Yes it is, I just have a really wierd way of saying it About the scaling that is. I'm just saying it doesn't FEEL like an MMO, it feels like you are kind of in the middle of one big quest, like a SP game. The only difference is that... there are other people :O

[Exroyal]

Really...like..really? We JUST had a thread discussing the SAME thing.

[Deatheryn]

That being said, it is the single most valuable, innovative, interactive, and outright beautifully polished single player game in the history of the internet. Enjoy it, because it is glorious.

Wow, really? The game is good but damn, not quite what you think of it but that is my opinion and yours is your's. It is great that you have found that in a game, I have not as of yet.

[melodramocracy]

Please play the game. It's much more of an MMO than WoW. WoW is only an MMO at max level, this you have people everywhere, events everywhere, people helping each other, etc.

This has far more to do with WoW's age than anything. Given enough time, GW2 will be similar.

[DrakeWurrum]

It obviously is... =\

Why is this even up for debate?

[Artorias]

This has far more to do with WoW's age than anything. Given enough time, GW2 will be similar.

That's what I'm worried about. GW2 will only thrive if people keep making alts (or going back to lower level zones at max level), otherwise everyone will be in Orr and huddling around dungeon entrances.

[Delias]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive...er_online_game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive...e-playing_game

Why yes, yes it does fit the definition of an MMO. Nowhere in any MMO description does it say "An MMO is a game that you grind."
Scaling is in the Elder Scrolls games (at least oblivion/skyrim, did not play earlier ones), yet they are most definitely RPGs.. so even if you narrowed it down to "MMORPGs" I fail to see how it would not fit the definition.

[Artorias]

It obviously is... =\

Why is this even up for debate?

Because I'm bored. Of course it IS an MMO, but it doesn't FEEL like an MMO. It's just such a story-oriented game that it doesn't matter how many other people are around. Does that make any sense?

[Delias]

That's what I'm worried about. GW2 will only thrive if people keep making alts (or going back to lower level zones at max level), otherwise everyone will be in Orr and huddling around dungeon entrances.

There's a reason that Orr is the only area that requires a group or people to do. You can do almost any event in most zones alone or with a friend, Orr you generally need 2+ people. Conscious design decision, they're not stupid and don't expect people to always be filling every zone.

[Cairhiin]

Yes it is, I just have a really wierd way of saying it About the scaling that is. I'm just saying it doesn't FEEL like an MMO, it feels like you are kind of in the middle of one big quest, like a SP game. The only difference is that... there are other people :O

It's an RPG, and it's massively multiplayer online. What part don't you understand? It is by its very definition an MMO. By your argument, what makes WoW an MMO? Just the fact they have an endless carrot on a stick? That has really nothing to do with what makes it an MMO.

[DrakeWurrum]

Because I'm bored. Of course it IS an MMO, but it doesn't FEEL like an MMO. It's just such a story-oriented game that it doesn't matter how many other people are around. Does that make any sense?

It doesn't make any sense at all. It feels plenty like an MMO to me. There's tons of people I'm not grouped with participating in my events and so on.

[melodramocracy]

That's what I'm worried about. GW2 will only thrive if people keep making alts (or going back to lower level zones at max level), otherwise everyone will be in Orr and huddling around dungeon entrances.

The game gives you more reasons than most to go back and at least complete lower level areas, farm there possibly, etc... but yes, I think that down the road, group DE's wll need to be addressed, as some will simply be un-doable if the population is low enough. Never a good situation.

[Artorias]

There's a reason that Orr is the only area that requires a group or people to do. You can do almost any event in most zones alone or with a friend, Orr you generally need 2+ people. Conscious design decision, they're not stupid and don't expect people to always be filling every zone.

Good point, I'm not even sure why I made that other post. I send in OP that GW2 is easily playable as a single-player game up until dungeons and end-game content lol.

---------- Post added 2012-09-12 at 10:46 AM ----------

It doesn't make any sense at all. It feels plenty like an MMO to me. There's tons of people I'm not grouped with participating in my events and so on.

I guess what I was trying to say is that despite all of those people, you still feel like it is your own personal adventure. Despite there being many other people doing the same things, you feel like it is YOU making the difference in the game. I think?

[Delias]

Good point, I'm not even sure why I made that other post. I send in OP that GW2 is easily playable as a single-player game up until dungeons and end-game content lol.

Designing a game around only being playable with people around you is silly. Again, you can't expect people to ALWAYS be in the lower level zones. How do you expect someone who picks up the game a few months late to play if nothing is soloable? He would HAVE to play with people, which not everyone has the luxury to do.

[CarlingBlackLabel]

Hmm, let's see...

Persistent online world? Check.
Played concurrently by many thousands of players from all over the word? Check.
Dungeons that require a group of players to complete, encouraging team work? Check.
Large scale PvP that encourages team work and also has an effect on the server you are on? Check.

I'm sure there are loads of things I've missed but these are just a few off the top of my head that would fit the bill for an MMO.

In summary - Yep, it's an MMO imo.

[Shadylol]

No, Guild Wars 2 isn't really an MMO. It's an Online RPG, a lot more like maybe SWTOR, than a game like WoW

It could fall under the broad category of an MMO, but it's not really the same kind of game

[draykorinee]

Weird thread, ofc its an mmo. It is however no more about about cooperation than any other mmo, zerg groups with nameless people is not cooperation. It does however do a great job of removing the competitive nature of PvE which some games can learn from.